How dark were the Dark Ages?

Tolworth John

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Mar 10, 2017
8,278
4,681
68
Tolworth
✟369,589.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
  • Like
Reactions: Landon Caeli
Upvote 0

Matt5

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2019
842
315
Zürich
✟130,346.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I was in a discussion on another forum and I was explaining how the Dark Ages were comparable to the Stone Age, where Europe lost all knowledge from Classical Civilization. I was explaining how all the great ancient libraries were ransacked, and the books stolen, and how people went from great stone cathedrals with plumbing and running water, to mud and grass huts and clay pottery making, and instead of trials and judges, they would employ "trial by ordeal" where they were actually dumb enough to throw an accused person into say a pit of hot coals to determine if he was guilty... If one was able to escape, then that meant the accused person was innocent, and if he died, that meant he was guilty... Now that's 'cave-man' dumb. :doh:

Trial by ordeal - Wikipedia

...But there were a few people, who I consider historical revisionists, who were claiming that the Dark Ages actually weren't "so dark".

What do you think? Were they dark? Or not so dark?

As far as I understand it, there were two main reasons for the dark ages: The fall of Rome and Muslims shut down trade on the Mediterranean. Europe experienced a substantial economic contraction due to those factors. Then there were the constant Muslim attacks on Europe:

Bill Warner, PhD: The Destruction of Classical Civilization - YouTube

The video shows the Muslim battles against Europe from the beginning of Islam.

Maybe Europe wasn't completely dark but the times were difficult.
 
Upvote 0

Landon Caeli

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 8, 2016
15,455
5,824
46
CA
✟561,158.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
As far as I understand it, there were two main reasons for the dark ages: The fall of Rome and Muslims shut down trade on the Mediterranean. Europe experienced a substantial economic contraction due to those factors. Then there were the constant Muslim attacks on Europe:

Bill Warner, PhD: The Destruction of Classical Civilization - YouTube

The video shows the Muslim battles against Europe from the beginning of Islam.

Maybe Europe wasn't completely dark but the times were difficult.

Exactly..!
 
Upvote 0

buzuxi02

Veteran
May 14, 2006
8,608
2,513
New York
✟212,454.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
When one regime of any sort takes over, it attempts to villify the previous one so it can depict itself as a luminary by showing, how you, living in the present has it so good under them. Referring to Constantinople as being in the dark ages would be preposterous of epic proportions. Due to numerous factors such as overtaxation Rome declined to less than 20,000 people at it's low point, as most people moved to the country side of course Rome wasn't the capital city for centuries but it's used under this modern construct as if it was still some center of importance. Nonetheless there is an ebb and flow to socio-economic epochs, where usually a catalyst whether good or bad is required to awaken the masses.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Silly Uncle Wayne

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,332
598
57
Dublin
✟102,646.00
Country
Ireland
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Single
I was in a discussion on another forum and I was explaining how the Dark Ages were comparable to the Stone Age, where Europe lost all knowledge from Classical Civilization. I was explaining how all the great ancient libraries were ransacked, and the books stolen, and how people went from great stone cathedrals with plumbing and running water, to mud and grass huts and clay pottery making, and instead of trials and judges, they would employ "trial by ordeal" where they were actually dumb enough to throw an accused person into say a pit of hot coals to determine if he was guilty... If one was able to escape, then that meant the accused person was innocent, and if he died, that meant he was guilty... Now that's 'cave-man' dumb. :doh:

Trial by ordeal - Wikipedia

...But there were a few people, who I consider historical revisionists, who were claiming that the Dark Ages actually weren't "so dark".

What do you think? Were they dark? Or not so dark?
Not really. Maybe a bit Grey :)

It's all a matter of perspective. Your example of trial by ordeal existed well after the end of the Dark Ages e.g. witch burnings and drownings.

And there was plenty of learning going on... it just wasn't in Rome.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,342
26,787
Pacific Northwest
✟728,236.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
I was in a discussion on another forum and I was explaining how the Dark Ages were comparable to the Stone Age, where Europe lost all knowledge from Classical Civilization. I was explaining how all the great ancient libraries were ransacked, and the books stolen, and how people went from great stone cathedrals with plumbing and running water, to mud and grass huts and clay pottery making, and instead of trials and judges, they would employ "trial by ordeal" where they were actually dumb enough to throw an accused person into say a pit of hot coals to determine if he was guilty... If one was able to escape, then that meant the accused person was innocent, and if he died, that meant he was guilty... Now that's 'cave-man' dumb. :doh:

Trial by ordeal - Wikipedia

...But there were a few people, who I consider historical revisionists, who were claiming that the Dark Ages actually weren't "so dark".

What do you think? Were they dark? Or not so dark?

There's a reason why most historians don't like the term "dark ages" to refer to western medieval Europe. The concept of a "dark ages" is about the lack of knowledge about a period. So, for example, we speak of the "Greek dark ages" from between the fall of the Mycenaeans and the rise of the Greek city states and Homer. They are called this because we really don't know much about this period, these centuries are dark to the light of historical inquiry. The term "dark ages" was originally coined in the late middle ages to refer to the period preceding, roughly between the fall of Rome to the Renaissance, because at the time the period seemed to be dark, without much knowledge by historians of the time.

However, in the 21st century the period traditionally called the European dark ages are better called the early middle ages. Overlapping this period is the Migration Period, the period of major migration of Germanic tribes around Europe which led to the sacking of Rome, and the foundations for the rest of medieval Europe.

So, how dark? Not dark at all. The period is actually well documented and understood.

The idea that the "dark ages" were a period of ignorance, or a period of spiritual darkness, are simply modern day myths that arose during the Enlightenment Era of Europe, between the 18th and 19th centuries, and do not correspond to real history and scholarship; but rather reflect particular biases and prejudices of recent times.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0