How Damaging is the Pentacostal / Charismatic Movement?

[Dr.Strangelove]

Ok so....theres been some fairly heated debates recently involving certain Pente / Charismatic 'practices' where me and others have been trying to ask people involved in these things to discuss exactly which of the leaders / teachers /pastors in those movement are DAMAGING and which ones do they hold up as good examples.

So can we have a thread where we discuss exactly this issue and come to some unity on who are the false teachers who have deceived MILLIONS in the third wave movement, how this has happened......and how the respected leaders in the movement differ from the wolves.

Please bring forward the wolves AND the godly teachers in the movement and lets critically examine their respective teachings in the light of day.

Ready......set.......begin >

 

[simonthezealot]

This seeems like a fabulous idea to contrast dark and light if it indeed there.

 

[MrPolo]

Who are some Pentecostal/Charistmatic leaders?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Subscribing

 

[Big Drew]

Who are some Pentecostal/Charistmatic leaders?

Modern day, or Pentecostal Pioneers?

 

[will_b_true]

Modern day, or Pentecostal Pioneers?

How about both.

Start with Finis Dake, or the Oneness types and Word of Faith types that came out of the Azuza St. revival.

 

[wayseer]

Ok so....theres been some fairly heated debates recently involving certain Pente / Charismatic 'practices' where me and others have been trying to ask people involved in these things to discuss exactly which of the leaders / teachers /pastors in those movement are DAMAGING and which ones do they hold up as good examples.

So can we have a thread where we discuss exactly this issue and come to some unity on who are the false teachers who have deceived MILLIONS in the third wave movement, how this has happened......and how the respected leaders in the movement differ from the wolves.

Please bring forward the wolves AND the godly teachers in the movement and lets critically examine their respective teachings in the light of day.

What about another question - what are we doing about educating ourselves?

The only reason why certain styles of Christianity draw people is that such people have given up thinking for themselves. They would rather settle for someone to tell them what the Bible says - and all the better if they get off on an emotional high in doing so.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

One question i always had is, when people are receiving the holy spirit, why are they trembling like the bible describes the demon possessed when being cast out?

And giving the benefit of the doubt .. say this really is the Holy Spirit "falling" in those meetings .. why does it change nothing in the surrounding communities like the awakenings of old?

what's really going on anyway? (and i'm asking this as one who has been transformed through such meetings by seeking God and God alone. honest question i've always had)

 

[Gregory Thompson]

There is also this return investment tithing message i've noticed prominent/tolerated in some of those circles also . it sounds kinda counter gospel .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

There's also this common teaching that "if bad things are happening to you then you're doing God's work, but if nothing bad is happening then you're right where the devil wants you" never really agreed with that .

 

[JimfromOhio]

I have close friends and relatives who are members of pentecostal and/or charismatic churches. Many of them have moved away from those churches that have WOF's (Word of Faith) doctrines. Most Pentecostals and Charismatics do not agree with WOF doctrines. FAITH is simple but people make it so difficult in order to make "faith" more than it is. WOF have made the word "Faith" more complicated than it should be. Faith won't work if you don't have Grace in your life. If you try to work on your faith, then it is man's efforts more than grace.

There are many Charismatics who moved away from many Charismatic/Pentecostal churches. There are alot of debates relating to Charismatic doctrines. In this day and age with many a so-called “Spirit-filled” Christians languishing in lukewarm faith conditions based on measurement based on works on human efforts. God wants us to be busy rejoicing in the gracious prospect of all opportunities of God's will. Those charismatics who knows what it means to be charismatics emphasize that the purpose of spiritual gifts is to build up the church and enrich worship of God, not to gratify the individual.

In my opinion and experiences, Word of Faith doctrines are more dangerous. There are false teachings that are filtering within our faith and using Christianity to lead us from the truth. That is where the most dangerous teachings come from.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

promise claiming is very dangerous, to the unlearned, taking the essence of scripture and applying it to your inner being can cause even your sin to come alive. they have no idea what they are doing . i know, because i've been there .

 

[will_b_true]

One question i always had is, when people are receiving the holy spirit, why are they trembling like the bible describes the demon possessed when being cast out?

And giving the benefit of the doubt .. say this really is the Holy Spirit "falling" in those meetings .. why does it change nothing in the surrounding communities like the awakenings of old?

what's really going on anyway? (and i'm asking this as one who has been transformed through such meetings by seeking God and God alone. honest question i've always had)

Jonathan Edwards asked the same thing when witnessing the same kind of phenomena during the Great Awakening, especially with the "Shakers", and concluded that it was not of God.

 

[Tangible]

Jonathan Edwards asked the same thing when witnessing the same kind of phenomena during the Great Awakening, especially with the "Shakers", and concluded that it was not of God.

So did CFW Walther.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Next set i remember:

You must receive the baptism in the name of Jesus to be saved

You must speak in tongues to be saved

 

[Big Drew]

How about both.

Start with Finis Dake, or the Oneness types and Word of Faith types that came out of the Azuza St. revival.

Word of Faith didn't come out of Azusa Street...Kenneth Hagin (founder of Rhema Bible Institute) is considered one of the fathers of the modern day Word of Faith movement...I guess you could say that WoF is a child or grandchild of Pentecostalism...but it is not Classical Pentecostalism.

As far as Dake goes, what's there to tell? It's fairly common knowledge that he had some strange ideas on some things...especially his explanation of the Trinity.

Oneness...while I don't agree with it, it seems to me to be just another way of explaining the divinity of Christ...I have no issue with that.

But when I think of "Pentecostal Pioneers" I think of folks like Charles Parham, William Seymour, Smith Wigglesworth, A.A. Boddy...and others...

 

[Big Drew]

There is also this return investment tithing message i've noticed prominent/tolerated in some of those circles also . it sounds kinda counter gospel .

Sounds like prosperity doctrine. :shudder:

 

[Big Drew]

There's also this common teaching that "if bad things are happening to you then you're doing God's work, but if nothing bad is happening then you're right where the devil wants you" never really agreed with that .

I've heard this a few times...not really sure where folks came up with that either...but, I recall hearing it said by a Baptist once...so it must not be a strictly Pentecostal/Charismatic saying.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Word of Faith didn't come out of Azusa Street...Kenneth Hagin (founder of Rhema Bible Institute) is considered one of the fathers of the modern day Word of Faith movement...I guess you could say that WoF is a child or grandchild of Pentecostalism...but it is not Classical Pentecostalism.

As far as Dake goes, what's there to tell? It's fairly common knowledge that he had some strange ideas on some things...especially his explanation of the Trinity.

Oneness...while I don't agree with it, it seems to me to be just another way of explaining the divinity of Christ...I have no issue with that.

But when I think of "Pentecostal Pioneers" I think of folks like Charles Parham, William Seymour, Smith Wigglesworth, A.A. Boddy...and others...

Where'd the "Name it, Claim it" teaching come from? it's essentially the same thing as WoF.

Sounds like prosperity doctrine. :shudder:

yeah . mammon .

I've heard this a few times...not really sure where folks came up with that either...but, I recall hearing it said by a Baptist once...so it must not be a strictly Pentecostal/Charismatic saying.

well baptists and pentecostals all study out of the same books at seminary so it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Is the accusation of a Jezebel spirit a pentecostal thing?