How could Jesus dying be considered a sacrifice?

[Ranman87]

How could Jesus' death be considered a sacrifice? Isn't it said that Jesus was already in heaven, and just came down in human form. If this is so, then how is it a sacrifice when he was crucified? He just ended up being resurrected and going back to where he started at. Nothing was lost, therefore, no sacrifice.

 

[SedjmNeter]

P.E.A.C.E and Blessings...

Don't know if this should be in philosophy and I don't know why you have a christian icon but anyway...

Also if God is all powerful and omniscient then he knew that he would be able to raise his son from the dead, so once again no sacrifice there.

SHEM HETEP

 

[elman]

How could Jesus' death be considered a sacrifice? Isn't it said that Jesus was already in heaven, and just came down in human form. If this is so, then how is it a sacrifice when he was crucified? He just ended up being resurrected and going back to where he started at. Nothing was lost, therefore, no sacrifice.

There was certainly pain and suffering involved and for the time Jesus was separated from God there was a loss as there always is when one is separated from God, therefore there was a sacrifice by God and Jesus to show the Creator loves us.

 

[Ranman87]

P.E.A.C.E and Blessings...

Don't know if this should be in philosophy and I don't know why you have a christian icon but anyway...

Also if God is all powerful and omniscient then he knew that he would be able to raise his son from the dead, so once again no sacrifice there.

SHEM HETEP

Judgemental, are we?

 

[atheist88]

There was certainly pain and suffering involved and for the time Jesus was separated from God there was a loss as there always is when one is separated from God, therefore there was a sacrifice by God and Jesus to show the Creator loves us.

Ignoring the fact that Jesus is god so therefore can not be separated.

How do we know there was pain and suffering? Couldn't he just turn it off? Besides what is a few days of suffering to a being infinitely old?

He knew before he started that he wasn't going to actually give anything up. I'm still not clear on what the sacrifice was...

 

[atheist88]

Oh, and if sacrifice was the payment for sin, didn't he make it that way?

So he sacrificed himself to himself for the sake of himself.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

Jesus was fully human and fully God. He died, literally (hence God being manifest in human flesh) and then rose on the third day. If that was meaningless, then we'd all be doomed, which obviously isn't the case, so that's that really.

 

[SedjmNeter]

Judgemental, are we?

Yes I am, but I'm trying not to be, unfortunatly old habits die hard. I shouldn't question your faith because you ask questions (in fact I should be congratulating you) I humbly apologize...

SHEM HETEP

 

[atheist88]

Jesus was fully human and fully God. He died, literally (hence God being manifest in human flesh) and then rose on the third day. If that was meaningless, then we'd all be doomed, which obviously isn't the case, so that's that really.

How can you be fully human and still retain god powers. I would feel a lot more comfortable going sky diving if I knew that I could just halt the universe if things went badly. Or I could just always resurrect myself if I were to lazy to stop the sun in its tracks. I can't understand how you can say he was fully human with such a monumental security blanket.

It is not be very obvious to me that we are not all doomed. If by doomed, you mean there is no afterlife, then that is exactly what I accept as the truth. Why would anyone think there is life after death? Life after death...how is that even possible, life can only precede death.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

How can you be fully human and still retain god powers. I would feel a lot more comfortable going sky diving if I knew that I could just halt the universe if things went badly. Or I could just always resurrect myself if I were to lazy to stop the sun in its tracks. I can't understand how you can say he was fully human with such a monumental security blanket.

It is not be very obvious to me that we are not all doomed. If by doomed, you mean there is no afterlife, then that is exactly what I accept as the truth. Why would anyone think there is life after death? Life after death...how is that even possible, life can only precede death.

Well, since God is God, He can do anything.

By doomed I mean we all go to hell w/ no hope of heaven. There is life after death because God has said it. Plus, have you heard of people that died and went either up or down, but somehow came back? That's further evidence.

 

[relaxeus]

By doomed I mean we all go to hell w/ no hope of heaven.

Sending people to hell is really sick. God must have some serious problems if he intends to do that. Even humans are better than that.
Ofcourse, there are many denominations that say hell doesn't exist and use scripture to back it up. You should look into those. It may give you more hope and appreciation for God.

 

[dan888]

"Hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this kid is waxed gross, and his ears are dull of hearing, and his eyes have closed; lest he should see with his eyes, and hear with his ears, and understand with his heart, and should be converted, and I should heal him."

"Give not that which is holy to the dogs, neither cast you your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

Sending people to hell is really sick. God must have some serious problems if he intends to do that. Even humans are better than that.
Ofcourse, there are many denominations that say hell doesn't exist and use scripture to back it up. You should look into those. It may give you more hope and appreciation for God.

Actually, I appreaciate God now and choose to believe the fullness of Him and what He has said. The Bible even says you must know the goodness AND severity of God. You not understanding something, especially when all have the opprotunity to escape it, doesn't make it any less just.

 

[atheist88]

Actually, I appreaciate God now and choose to believe the fullness of Him and what He has said. The Bible even says you must know the goodness AND severity of God. You not understanding something, especially when all have the opprotunity to escape it, doesn't make it any less just.

I can't understand what would make a robber point a gun at my head and say "Your money or your life!" You could say the robber is just in shooting me when I refuse to give him my money because he offered me a way to escape it.

On another note, god himself gave us the ability to judge right from wrong. You know, the whole knowledge of good and evil thing in the beginning. So claiming that we can't understand good and evil is bogus. Therefore, using the knowledge that god granted us, I judge the sending of people to hell to be evil.

 

[relaxeus]

Actually, I appreaciate God now and choose to believe the fullness of Him and what He has said. The Bible even says you must know the goodness AND severity of God. You not understanding something, especially when all have the opprotunity to escape it, doesn't make it any less just.

Hitler was good to some people as well. Why don't you choose to support him? Because of all the atrocities he commited. What makes God different that you support him even though he has done such horrible things?

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

Hitler was good to some people as well. Why don't you choose to support him? Because of all the atrocities he commited. What makes God different that you support him even though he has done such horrible things?

God doesn't do "horrible" things...you just see them as that simply because: One, you don't understand, two, you don't know God at all whatsoever.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

I can't understand what would make a robber point a gun at my head and say "Your money or your life!" You could say the robber is just in shooting me when I refuse to give him my money because he offered me a way to escape it.

On another note, god himself gave us the ability to judge right from wrong. You know, the whole knowledge of good and evil thing in the beginning. So claiming that we can't understand good and evil is bogus. Therefore, using the knowledge that god granted us, I judge the sending of people to hell to be evil.

Did I say you can't understand good and evil? No. I said just because you don't understand something, doesn't make it anyless just or automatically wrong. God Himself said He is higher and His ways aren't ours.

 

[relaxeus]

God doesn't do "horrible" things...you just see them as that simply because: One, you don't understand, two, you don't know God at all whatsoever.

Its hard to understand how a person can see light where there is darkness. You condemn evil yet you aprove of God and his countless atrocities. How can you see these acts as good? Have you surrendered your ability to judge for yourself and blindly cast your allegiance to some being that you know hardly anything about? Open your eyes. Look at God's plans in revelation. Hes going to inflict so much pain and suffering on a scale beyond what you can imagine - and he has the nerve to justify these actions. You may go to heaven and live in a brainwashed paradise, but I would rather die standing up for what is right.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

Its hard to understand how a person can see light where there is darkness. You condemn evil yet you aprove of God and his countless atrocities. How can you see these acts as good? Have you surrendered your ability to judge for yourself and blindly cast your allegiance to some being that you know hardly anything about? Open your eyes. Look at God's plans in revelation. Hes going to inflict so much pain and suffering on a scale beyond what you can imagine - and he has the nerve to justify these actions. You may go to heaven and live in a brainwashed paradise, but I would rather die standing up for what is right.

May I remind you God died for us and gives all the opp. to escape that fate. It's open to ALL, but folks REJECT it. It's that simple. If you do that then you have to face the consequences of your sin and evil acts (for sin is evil) because God is just and holy and doesn't play w/ wickedness and sin. You not understanding it or seeing God's holiness doesn't lessen the fact that He is that.

 

[JGL53]

May I remind you God died for us and gives all the opp. to escape that fate. It's open to ALL, but folks REJECT it. It's that simple. If you do that then you have to face the consequences of your sin and evil acts (for sin is evil) because God is just and holy and doesn't play w/ wickedness and sin. You not understanding it or seeing God's holiness doesn't lessen the fact that He is that.

All fine and well IF there were any evidence of the literal existence of some god. There isn't. That's why faith is required. And that's why there are thousands of competing faiths - all of which, including all brands of christianity, are unsubstantiated by any proof, evidence, sound logic, or any reasonable argument - it all just amounts to mere "say so". And "say so" isn't worth a bucket of warm spit.