How Come? version 2.0

[IWantToBelieve]

I have a question don't take this the wrong way or anythig because i completely don't mean it like that. but why are you on christianforums.com if you don't want people to use verses because you 100 percent don't believe in it?

Good question, very glad you asked actually. Answer is because people keep quoting the bible thinking that it's the only reliable source in the world. It might be, but non-christians dont always feel that way, and I see it as nothing more than a book. What christians may 100% believe is true in the bible wont seem very realistic to a nonbeliever. While miraculous things like walking on water MAY have existed long ago, who am I to trust a book when I dont see the same miracles now? To me, it seems like saying that Hogwarts exists because it's in Harry Potter.

 

[strikerchris0411]

Good question, very glad you asked actually. Answer is because people keep quoting the bible thinking that it's the only reliable source in the world. It might be, but non-christians dont always feel that way, and I see it as nothing more than a book. What christians may 100% believe is true in the bible wont seem very realistic to a nonbeliever. While miraculous things like walking on water MAY have existed long ago, who am I to trust a book when I dont see the same miracles now? To me, it seems like saying that Hogwarts exists because it's in Harry Potter.

Not all Christians believe the Bible is 100% accurate. I definently don't but I do think overally it is a great source of pretty good morals

 

[Rafael]

Just because we do not see something does not mean it does not exist or have power. We have only had a microscope for a short time. All things are made of the unseen and we are made of.
Check out the cover story for "New Scientist". What we perceive as reality can easily be altered and changed by any being that knows how and has the power to use and change it. The very power that hold us to the reality we exit in is still not understood by the pride of man...... To think God has only the power of man denies the creation we still have no power over to change even at basic levels.
If man can not recreate or explain, it seems that what appears to be a complex inteligently designed "thing" has to explained as an accident that occured over trillions of years. I cannot discount one word or miracle in the scriptures just because I think them impossible when I live in a world that I or any man, no matter how smart, cannot possibly reproduce in even the most minute level.

 

[IWantToBelieve]

Just because we do not see something does not mean it does not exist or have power.

It doesnt mean that it's there either.

 

[Rafael]

It doesnt mean that it's there either.

Yes, but that is what faith is about. We live and take each breathe as a gift of life because of something. Logic demands a cause, and what does it say as life? It speaks huge and awesome things that we do not fully comprehend. So then will we limit them with our own puny powers? Even the works of man speak loudly that the scriptures are true in describing the ego and selfish pride of what men design and establish on earth. The whole planet reeks of sin and death and will need to be saved very soon. Watch and see, as we are living in those last days before the Lord returns. It all fits, and I watch and see more evidence everyday that God's word is true. He walks between the dimensions and uses them, including time, like we would walk up to a door and open it. Surely all things are subject to His will, yet He will not violate ours, seeing that love demands a choice. We have all we need to accomplish those tasks and have been given them, possibly in great abundance over some others, but do we thank Him or even deny Him when we have known at some time, inately, that He is real? No, and it is because the word of God is true again. We were born into spiritual death because one man let sin reign over all his descendants - Adam, but one man paid that price to release us from that death, Jesus. We and the world need a Savior, and He is coming again, just as He has given us account in history. The Spirit of God comes to each person and touches that part of them that knows from the creation that He is God, yet still does not force one to accept His salvation from the death brought on mankind through Adam's mistake.
We can blame God or blame man, but blaming God or denying Him is a mistake when He gives each person everything they have pertaining to life. We see Him all around ourselves with each day. His answer was and is love. A love that goes beyond the selfish love of man, and He wants us to respond in love to His offer of eternal life.

 

[IWantToBelieve]

I've heard it all before, but I dont see why so many people put their faith in a book. I suppose I should have faith that Hogwarts exists because it's in Harry Potter? I just dont see what makes people believe in a story that very well could be fiction.

 

[BroGinder]

Well, I really just want to know whether or not he's actually there or not. People keep telling me that I need to rely on faith, but I'm the kind of guy who relies on fact over faith.



Sure thing. The only problem I have with bible quotes is when people claim that that's the truth and that I should believe everything the bible says because it's the book of god. People have said that, not thinking that an aethiest doesnt believe the same way that they do.

[/color]

Sure thing, I've tried to do that, but I dont see where people can believe in a book so strongly. I mean, things like talking fire bushes and parting oceans, when I think of that kind of stuff I think of fiction novels. When I try to think of it as something that could actually happen, I always deny any possiblity because I havent really seen anything like that in modern days. People in the other thread kept saying "oh, even if you did see that kinda stuff, you still wouldnt believe." That's not true, if I saw those kinds of magic today (or if jesus walked into my room and simply said "sup, I'm jesus" and walked out) then I would immediately ask god for forgiveness and live my life as a believer, the whole nine yards. But without any kind of real motive to believe in something that I cant see or feel, well, it just kinda seems pointless. but i guess if there is a motive, it would be that people keep telling me that there is such a thing as god, so I guess that's why I'm here: to find out for myself.

Ok here is a small problem. God placed a small measure of faith in all mankind. In order to believe or not you will have to exercise that slightly. In order to find God you will have to flex that faith muscle even just a little.

It is like lifting weights. You look at a 5 lb weight. You are confident, or have faith you can lift it, you exercise you faith and believe it by going to it and lfting it up. Until then you do not know for sure you can or not.

A meteor is falling, you believe it will fall where you stand. What do you do? If you have faith in what you think you will move I would hope.

Faith is like a muscle, you have to work it for it to grow. The Lord said prove me. Try me. He wants you to just test him. Not tempt him, try him.

I do believe that fear can drive a man/woman to salvation. I do not believe that it will keep them saved. The will have to learn more abotu God.

If you wish to learn about God and flex that muscle I would like to make one suggestion. Read his word.

the book of John 1:1 says In the begining was the word, the word was with God and the word was God. So if the Word is God, then read God and see what he proves to you.

He is truly the one that will lead you in to all truth. The Spirit of truth will guide and lead youinto all truth. You are seeking for a reason, continue your seeking. remember, no one comes to God unless they be called.

Good luck my friend. God bless.

 

[IWantToBelieve]

Faith is like a muscle, you have to work it for it to grow. The Lord said prove me. Try me. He wants you to just test him. Not tempt him, try him.

Tried him for 12 years, didnt hear anything from him.

If you wish to learn about God and flex that muscle I would like to make one suggestion. Read his word.

I've already done that.

He is truly the one that will lead you in to all truth. The Spirit of truth will guide and lead youinto all truth. You are seeking for a reason, continue your seeking. remember, no one comes to God unless they be called.

And I suppose I'm one of the unlucky ones who doesnt get a reply :\

 

[Rafael]

I've heard it all before, but I dont see why so many people put their faith in a book. I suppose I should have faith that Hogwarts exists because it's in Harry Potter? I just dont see what makes people believe in a story that very well could be fiction.

Hogwarts and the Bible?? Not the same by distinction or content. In fact opposite of each other. Hogwarts does not give the history of Israel past present and future or speak of a mighty nation that comes to the aid of their brother, the house of Judah in the last days, having its tall images knocked down and cities destroyed. History speaks of Jesus and the Bible that survived under God's protection, being written by men from different centuries and all kinds of backgrounds, from kings to shepherds, yet sounding like one author in agreement of man's condition of sin and death and the need for a Savior. That author being the very Spirit of God, Himself, inspiring men after His own will to write of Him. Check out the evidence of the Bible just in age and number of manuscripts available. In comparison, Roman history would be a myth. There is just no book like it on the face of the earth, and it has evidence that demands upon us a verdict. It t least deserves more than a glance, IMO, but that does not mean there are not many other things out there to demand our attention and wants for amusement...
It's a big mistake to ignore it and compare it to a book of sorcery, which the Bible condemns, as there is a devil and his demons, the third of the angels that fell from God's realm in rebellion, that manifest themselves through the works of men, but only if allowed - usually by deception. Ofcourse, evil can be denied to, even though its works in the world are easily seen, but that's a whole different subject.
I can see that you have not read the Bible very closely or with interest, not that it does anyone good that would do so without a seeking heart and unbiased mind. To narrow the mind to just what can be seen has always been that thing which kept man from moving forward whether in science or in spirituality. All things are made of the unseen and all things are possible. It is only in the restrictions of our minds and our ignorance that the unknown is not revealed, and even that which can be known and seen can be ignored for what it must truly represent. All creation speaks of God. Even our conscious being spoke of God at some time in life and knew Him as Creator, but that truth is easily displaced with lies and lawlessness in this world of peril - where sin and death rule if not for God's promise of eternal life.

 

[BroGinder]

Tried him for 12 years, didnt hear anything from him.



I've already done that.



And I suppose I'm one of the unlucky ones who doesnt get a reply :\

I would love to talk to you one on one live on AIM. I do have some questions and such for you. God is no respector of person so I know if he saved me he will save you. If you let him.

 

[IWantToBelieve]

I can see that you have not read the Bible very closely or with interest, not that it does anyone good that would do so without a seeking heart and unbiased mind.

I can see that you are a murderer and a rapist. Or maybe I'm assuming things just like you are. I would very much like to hear what makes you believe that I'm "biased". I'm very certian that if you knew me as a friend in real life, that you'd retract that statement pretty quickly, as I'm everything BUT biased. Seeing as how you've only known me for a few posts over an internet forum, I wouldn't start labeling me yet

 

[strikerchris0411]

Hogwarts and the Bible?? Not the same by distinction or content. In fact opposite of each other. Hogwarts does not give the history of Israel past present and future or speak of a mighty nation that comes to the aid of their brother, the house of Judah in the last days, having its tall images knocked down and cities destroyed. History speaks of Jesus and the Bible that survived under God's protection, being written by men from different centuries and all kinds of backgrounds, from kings to shepherds, yet sounding like one author in agreement of man's condition of sin and death and the need for a Savior. That author being the very Spirit of God, Himself, inspiring men after His own will to write of Him. Check out the evidence of the Bible just in age and number of manuscripts available. In comparison, Roman history would be a myth. There is just no book like it on the face of the earth, and it has evidence that demands upon us a verdict. It t least deserves more than a glance, IMO, but that does not mean there are not many other things out there to demand our attention and wants for amusement...
It's a big mistake to ignore it and compare it to a book of sorcery, which the Bible condemns, as there is a devil and his demons, the third of the angels that fell from God's realm in rebellion, that manifest themselves through the works of men, but only if allowed - usually by deception. Ofcourse, evil can be denied to, even though its works in the world are easily seen, but that's a whole different subject.
I can see that you have not read the Bible very closely or with interest, not that it does anyone good that would do so without a seeking heart and unbiased mind. To narrow the mind to just what can be seen has always been that thing which kept man from moving forward whether in science or in spirituality. All things are made of the unseen and all things are possible. It is only in the restrictions of our minds and our ignorance that the unknown is not revealed, and even that which can be known and seen can be ignored for what it must truly represent. All creation speaks of God. Even our conscious being spoke of God at some time in life and knew Him as Creator, but that truth is easily displaced with lies and lawlessness in this world of peril - where sin and death rule if not for God's promise of eternal life.

That was not very nice. What you said.

 

[The Virginian]

Since my last searching for faith thread was closed due to the fact that a certain individual simply would not stop ARGUING when I politely asked her not too, but instead made the topic heated enough that moderators thought that it should be locked, I have made this new thread to continue the conversation.....

So again, this thread is NOT for debate. If you're going to give me a reason why I should believe in god, do so in this thread without using "repent or burn in hell" tactics or quoting bible verses that say "But jesus said this, and god said that, and blah blah blah blah blah", because I really dont believe in that kinda stuff, so it's really just pointless and repetitive.

Thanks in advance.

It's simple fact that by way of definition, it would be impossible to either "prove or disprove" God! One could point to creation, and ask how did it all get here, evolution or creation. And if creation, who created it?

However, none of this is of any consequence; because beforehand, you have already stated that you do not believe in God, or His Son Jesus, or what has been said by them. As I see it therefore, the debate point is moot!