How come good Friday is only two days from Easter Sunday?

ImAHebrew

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 30, 2003
553
38
St. Louis, MO
Visit site
✟67,313.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I really am thankful for your greeting with each post, "Peace".

Re: <<so, Joseph and Nicodemus LEFT the tomb at 3 p.m.? How is that possible, when the Scriptures state that Yeshua DIED at 3 p.m., and after He died, Joseph goes to see Pilate to ask for Yeshua's dead body?>>

THAT'S IT! Praise God you see that which you see. Now you must only focus the picture and absorb every line of demarcation of EVERYTHING in the picture.

Joseph (and Nicodemus consequently) LEFT the tomb at 3 p.m., in so many words, "And That Day was the Preparation being mid-afternoon the Sabbath approaching" ['Sabbaton epephohsken']

<<How is that possible, when the Scriptures state that Yeshua DIED at 3 p.m.?>>
A! You see the light, alleluia!

Here is your answer, dear ImAHebrew, HERE! He DIED, BEFORE, John 19:31 Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 Luke 23:50, ON, John 19:14 the day that started in John 13:1,30 Mark 14:12,17 Matthew 26:17,20 Luke 22:7,14 1Corinthians 11:23, and He was crucified ON "the third hour" and died ON "the ninth hour"... BUT WAS NOT ALSO BURIED ON.

Because ...after three or more hours after Jesus had died, Joseph goes to see Pilate to ask for Yeshua's dead body; Then goes and get His dead body ... and prepares Him FOR BURIAL. And takes it to the tomb, the following afternoon. "And the (two) women followed in the procession." "There laid they the body of Jesus due to the Jews' preparations." "And Joseph closed the tomb and left." "And the women ... that day the Preparation mid-afternoon the Sabbath starting to draw near, returned home and prepared spices."
They did all of that --leaving the Crucifixion until closing the tomb and leaving the Burial-- in exactly 24 hours.



What do you say, now?
Shalom Gerhard, how do you explain John 19:40-42? Does not John indicate here that they placed Yeshua IN the tomb that was "nearby" ON the Preparation Day, prior to the High Day Sabbath? You want us to believe that they went to Pilate, asked for His body, took His body "somewhere," and then the next day, brought His body back to the tomb that was "nearby," and then buried Him - 24 hours later? Are you really trying to teach us this? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
 
Upvote 0

ImAHebrew

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 30, 2003
553
38
St. Louis, MO
Visit site
✟67,313.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Please read carefully. I have not been talking about Yom Kippur or any other Jewish feast or festival. I have been discussing the 1st/7th days of Unleavened Bread. They are called holy convocations, neither day is called a Sabbath in the OT. If any other holy convocation is called a Sabbath that does not mean the ULB can or should be called a Sabbath. I have stated my scriptural reason for those statements multiple times. Exodus 12:16.

εγω γαρ ειμι πρεσβυτης ποιμήν
ETA:

Jewish Encyclopedia -Festivals
Pesah (Passover; Ex. xii. 1-28), the "Ḥag ha-Mazzot" (Ex. xxiii. 14; Lev. xxiii. 4-8), in commemoration of Israel's liberation from Egypt. It lasted seven days, from the fifteenth to the twenty-second of Nisan, the first and the last day being "holy convocations," with abstention from hard labor and the offering of sacrifices (comp. Num. xxviii. 16-25; Deut. xvi. 1-8). On the second day the first-fruit (barley) 'omer was offered (Lev. xxiii. 10). Those that were in a state of impurity or distant from home were bidden to celebrate the festival in the next succeeding month (Num. ix. 1-14).See Jewish Encyclopedia-Passover
FESTIVALS - JewishEncyclopedia.com
Passover
The festival commemorates the deliverance of Israel's first-born from the judgment wrought on those of the Egyptians (Ex. xii. 12-13; comp. Ex. xiii. 2, 12 et seq.), and the wondrous liberation of the Hebrews from Egyptian bondage (Ex. xii. 14-17). As such, it is identical with the Mazzot , Ex. xii. 17; Hag Mazzot, Lev. xxiii. 5-6) festival, and was instituted for an everlasting statute (Ex. xii. 14). Lev. xxiii., however, seems to distinguish between Passover, which is set for the fourteenth day of the month, and Hag Mazzot (the Festival of Unleavened Bread; ἑορτή τῶν ἀζύμων, Luke xxii. 1; Josephus, "B. J." ii. 1, § 3), appointed for the fifteenth day. The festival occurred in Abib (Ex. xiii. 4; Deut. xvi. 1 et seq., where the New Moon is given as the memorial day of the Exodus), later named Nisan, and lasted seven days, from sunset on the fourteenth day to sunset on the twenty-first day; the first and the seventh days were set aside for holy convocation, no work being permitted on those days except such as was necessary in preparing food (Num. xxviii. 16-25). During the seven days of the festival leaven was not to be found in the habitations of the Hebrews (Ex. xii. 19, xiii. 7). Leaven was not to be eaten under penalty of "excision" ("karet"; Ex. xii. 15, 19-20; xiii. 3; Deut. xvi. 3), and the eating of unleavened bread was commanded (Ex. xii. 15, 18; xiii. 6, 7; xxiii. 15; xxxiv. 18; Lev. xxiii. 6; Num. xxviii. 17). On the second day the omer of new barley was brought to the Temple (Lev. xxiii. 10-16; comp. First Fruits
PASSOVER - JewishEncyclopedia.com
You will not believe me maybe you will believe the Jewish Encyclopedia.
Shalom Der Alter, IF you want to accept and believe Judaism, then you need to correct your belief concerning the High Day Sabbath of ULB. The Jews, in counting from the morrow after Shabbat, count from the morrow AFTER the 1st High Day Shabbat of ULB. How do you explain their viewing of the 1st High Day as BEING a Shabbat? Are they wrong to consider that this 1st Day of Unleavened Bread is a Sabbath - H7676 (Leviticus 23:15)? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
 
Upvote 0

ImAHebrew

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 30, 2003
553
38
St. Louis, MO
Visit site
✟67,313.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
These were Gentile converts to Judaism that Paul was preaching to in the synagogues. There were no Gentile Christians attending the synagogue of the Jews. Jews and Gentiles did not associate with one another. Gentiles did not ordinarily mix with Jews and so they did not attend synagogue with the Jews unless they were already devout converts to Judaism or they were in the process of converting to Judaism.



Paul did not preach to Gentile/Greek Christians in the synagogues. Paul preached to Gentile/Greek converts to Judaism in the synagogues.


Acts 13:43
And when the meeting of the synagogue broke up, many Jews and devout converts to Judaism (Greeks) followed Paul and Barnabas, who spoke to them and urged them to continue in the grace of God. rsv​

The Gentile converts to Judaism who were attending synagogue on the Sabbath began to believe in what Paul preached to them about Jesus Christ and so they followed Paul and Barnabas out of the synagogue after the synagogue meeting was finished. After the meeting they asked Paul questions about his preaching and soon they accepted Paul's preaching about Jesus Christ. As a result of this outpouring of God's grace, these Jews and Gentile converts to Judaism believed what Paul was preaching to them. As soon as they came to believe that Jesus Christ was the way, the truth, and the life, they started to attend the Christian gathering on the first day of the week and they became catechumens/learners of the Christian faith.



Shortly after God knocked Paul down and blinded him and then restored his sight, Paul began keeping the 1st day of the week holy and he did this because he became a Christian! Acts 26:13-15, Acts 20:7

People did not change their nationalities when they converted to Judaism. A Jew/Hebrew is always a Jew/Hebrew by nationality and a Greek convert to Judaism is always a Greek by nationality. There were no Greek Christians who attended the synagogues of the Jews. Only Greek converts to Judaism and Greeks in the process of converting to Judaism attended the synagogues of the Jews.


Acts 17:1-12
Now when they had passed through Amphip′olis and Apollo′nia, they came to Thessaloni′ca, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and for three weeks he argued with them from the scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded, and joined Paul and Silas; as did a great many of the devout Greeks (who practiced Judaism) and not a few of the leading women (Hebrews/Jews).
5 But the Jews (who practiced Judaism) were jealous, and taking some wicked fellows of the rabble, they gathered a crowd, set the city in an uproar, and attacked the house of Jason (because the Christians were meeting in the house of Jason on this first day of the week, Sunday; the Jews definitely did not attack these Christians on the Jews' Saturday Sabbath Day!), seeking to bring them out to the people. 6 And when they could not find them (Paul and Silas), they dragged Jason and some of the brethren (Christians) before the city authorities, crying, “These men who have turned the world upside down have come here also, 7 and Jason has received them; and they are all acting against the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, Jesus.” 8 And the people and the city authorities were disturbed when they heard this. 9 And when they had taken security from Jason and the rest, they let them go.
10 The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Beroe′a; and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. 11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessaloni′ca, for they received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so. 12 Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women (devout converts to Judaism) of high standing as well as men. rsv

Acts 18:4
4 And he argued in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded Jews (who practiced Judaism) and Greeks (devout converts to Judaism). rsv
A Greek convert to Judaism was still called a Greek. He never was called a Jew.

These Greeks were devout converts to Judaism. Paul preached to them in the synagogues on Saturday because that is where these Greeks who believed in Judaism were gathered on Saturdays. It is a better plan to go to preach to a group of people who are gathered in just one location than to stop people on the street to preach to each one individually. :)



The Saturday Sabbath was set aside only for the Israelites/Jews and the converts to Judaism under the Law of Moses/Old Covenant.

Non-Jews or non-converts to Judaism were never required to keep the Sabbath of the Jews during the duration of the Old Covenant.

Christians, whatever their nationality, are under the New Covenant Law of Christ and so they are not ever required to be under by the Law of Moses/Old Covenant Sabbath laws. The Law of Moses/Old Covenant Sabbath laws ended when Jesus died on the cross. Jesus Christ's New Covenant began when Jesus died on the cross. The Cross of Christ ends/finishes one covenant and begins a new covenant.

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law (of Moses/Old Covenant), that every one who has faith may be justified (by the Law of Christ/New Covenant). rsv​

Acts 15:12-21
12 And all the assembly kept silence; and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. 13 After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brethren, listen to me. 14 Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles (the Gentile Abraham), to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, as it is written,
16 ‘After this I will return,
and I will rebuild the dwelling of David, which has fallen;
I will rebuild its ruins,
and I will set it up,
17 that the rest of men may seek the Lord,
and all the Gentiles who are called by my name,
18 says the Lord, who has made these things known from of old.’
19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the pollutions of idols and from unchastity and from what is strangled and from blood. 21 For from early generations Moses has had in every city those who preach him, for he is read every sabbath in the synagogues.”rsv​

James is speaking about the Gentile Abraham as the father of the early generations of the Israelites/Jews. Since the time that synagogues were invented, all the adherents to Judaism listened to readings from the five books of Moses in their synagogues every Sabbath. There were absolutely no Gentile Christians who lived in these early generations of Judaism. Christianity was still in its very first generation at the time James made this statement.
Shalom Jan001, thank you for your reply. It does prompt me to ask you several questions. If Abraham was a Gentile as you have professed here, why do the Scriptures say he was a Hebrew (Genesis 14:13)?

You state that Paul started keeping the 1st day of the week holy, shortly after he was "knocked" down by "God." Again, I ask, why didn't Paul invite those "Gentiles" who wanted to hear more from him, to come and celebrate the 1st day of the week to keep it holy in Acts 13:42? As you show above, in Acts 13:43, after the assembly broke up, many Jews and converts to Judaism asked him to continue speaking with them, but the verse PRIOR is when the Gentiles came up to him AFTER the Jews had left and "besought" that they could hear more from Paul on the NEXT Sabbath. Again, why didn't Paul tell them, Hey, we are meeting tomorrow on the 1st day of the week to keep it holy, why not join us then? Why make the Gentiles wait until the NEXT Sabbath?

Here is something that you need to try to answer for me. In Acts 21, Paul returns to Jerusalem, and this is about 12 years AFTER the Council of Acts 15, and is greeted by the same James who established the four necessary requirements that allowed Gentiles to associate with the Jews. James points out about all of the thousands of Jews who BELIEVE, and are ZEALOUS for the Law (Acts 21:20). He then tells Paul about some "rumors" that are being falsely spread about what Paul was teaching the Jews out in the Diaspora (Acts 21:21). To show that there is no truth to these rumors, James tells Paul to go through a sacrificial ritual, paying the expenses of four others, and then EVERYONE will see that Paul did not teach those things but that he himself lived in obedience to the Law (Acts 21:22-24). Now, here is my question, why did James say that as far as touching the Gentiles, they are not to observe (Acts 21:25), except what was already concluded that they should do? Why did not James include the Gentiles in "obeying Moses, circumcising children, and walking after the customs (Oral Law)? It is very obvious here that James, who ruled about the Gentiles' four necessary commands, did not allow Jews to forsake Moses, or the circumcising of children, or not walking after the customs. My question, why did James make a distinction between what the Jews should do, versus what the Gentiles should do?

Finally, please let me know WHY Paul circumcised Timothy (Acts 16:3), and not Titus (Galatians 2:3)?

Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
 
Upvote 0

ImAHebrew

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 30, 2003
553
38
St. Louis, MO
Visit site
✟67,313.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
[Staff edit].

Shalom Gerhard, please don't get mad. I do have another question though. In Matthew 27:57, the coming of the evening is the time BEFORE sunset, after the coming of the evening is the NEXT day, after sunset. Now, my question, in Matthew 27:62, the day that followed the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came to Pilate and asked for the tomb to be guarded. Pilate agreed, and a guard was set, and a "seal" was placed on the stone. Tell me Gerhard, what exact day was this all done on? The day following the "preparation of the Passover," or the day following the "preparation of the weekly Sabbath?" Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

AFrazier

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 1, 2016
1,155
342
52
Mauldin, South Carolina
✟161,508.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Simply wrong, by now untrue; and contradicts the Jewish Encyclopedia which you give as supports it your error. You discard the text both Hebrew and LXX.



Exodus 12:16 is not the only Scripture that deals with "the first day seven days ulb", "the sabbath" in Leviticus 23:11,15,16.
Just to be clear beyond clear, the scripture do not state, ever, that the first and last days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread are Sabbaths. They are listed as holy convocations, and only as holy convocations. If those two days are to be considered Sabbaths, it is only by inference to known practices, such as the fact that the counting of the 'Omer began on the 16th. Since the counting of the 'Omer was to be done on the "morrow after the Sabbath," one can infer by implication that the 15th was considered a Sabbath. But, the 15th is never actually called a Sabbath in the scriptures.

Just sayin'.
 
Upvote 0

AFrazier

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 1, 2016
1,155
342
52
Mauldin, South Carolina
✟161,508.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
[Staff edit]. The "evening" by first century Jewish understanding was any time after high noon, as the sun began moving towards the western horizon. That's why the were able to sacrifice the lamb at 2:00 in the afternoon. The lamb was supposed to be slain on "the evening" of the 14th. The Talmud very clearly defines what this means.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

AFrazier

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 1, 2016
1,155
342
52
Mauldin, South Carolina
✟161,508.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
To believe that they were out at the tomb, watching Joseph "depart" after placing the stone over the entrance, and then "returning" to where they obviously had WALKED from, is in the realm of complete conjecture, thinking they had time BEFORE the Sabbath to do those "preparations."
No, it's not conjecture. It's scripture. He died on Friday and rose on Sunday. That's how much time they had to do what the Bible says they did.

Yeshua died and was placed in the tomb right at the END of the 14th day, as the Sabbath of the 15th day was BEGINNING/DAWNING at sunset, and this was Wednesday at sunset.
Three gospels say that Jesus and the disciples ate the Passover. What you're saying here is not correct. You're a day early. Unless you know of a scriptural or historical precedent to demonstrate how the Passover could be eaten on the 13th/14th rather than the 14th/15th.
 
Upvote 0

Yeshua HaDerekh

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it
May 9, 2013
11,459
3,771
Eretz
✟317,562.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Just to be clear beyond clear, the scripture do not state, ever, that the first and last days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread are Sabbaths. They are listed as holy convocations, and only as holy convocations. If those two days are to be considered Sabbaths, it is only by inference to known practices, such as the fact that the counting of the 'Omer began on the 16th. Since the counting of the 'Omer was to be done on the "morrow after the Sabbath," one can infer by implication that the 15th was considered a Sabbath. But, the 15th is never actually called a Sabbath in the scriptures.

Just sayin'.

It is the morrow after the WEEKLY 7TH DAY SABBATH that occurs during ULB. Otherwise you cant count 7 Sabbaths to determine Shavuot, unless you have a non-7 day Sabbath every week...do you?
 
Upvote 0

ImAHebrew

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 30, 2003
553
38
St. Louis, MO
Visit site
✟67,313.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
No, it's not conjecture. It's scripture. He died on Friday and rose on Sunday. That's how much time they had to do what the Bible says they did.


Three gospels say that Jesus and the disciples ate the Passover. What you're saying here is not correct. You're a day early. Unless you know of a scriptural or historical precedent to demonstrate how the Passover could be eaten on the 13th/14th rather than the 14th/15th.
Shalom AFraizer, how do you explain John 18:28? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,578
6,064
EST
✟993,188.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Simply wrong, by now untrue; and contradicts the Jewish Encyclopedia which you give as supports it your error. You discard the text both Hebrew and LXX.
Wieder alles falsch! If you say that I contradict the Hebrew and LXX and the Jewish Encyclopedia which I quoted you need to show that I do, not just make an empty accusation.
Exodus 12:16 is not the only Scripture that deals with "the first day seven days ulb", "the sabbath" in Leviticus 23:11,15,16.
I have already addressed these. Scripture cannot contradict each other therefore nothing in any other scripture can contradict Exo 12:16, the very first mention of the feast of unleavened bread [ULB]. When God told Moses about all His feasts He said the 1st/7th days of ULB were holy convocations. God did not say they were Sabbaths and they differ from a Sabbath because the preparation of food is specifically permitted. All work of any kind is strictly forbidden on the Sabbath.

Exodus 12:16
(16) And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Junior Member
Aug 22, 2008
1,409
63
✟14,946.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Just to be clear beyond clear, the scripture do not state, ever, that the first and last days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread are Sabbaths. They are listed as holy convocations, and only as holy convocations. If those two days are to be considered Sabbaths, it is only by inference to known practices, such as the fact that the counting of the 'Omer began on the 16th. Since the counting of the 'Omer was to be done on the "morrow after the Sabbath," one can infer by implication that the 15th was considered a Sabbath. But, the 15th is never actually called a Sabbath in the scriptures.

Just sayin'.

Appreciated greatly. Thank you.
God blessings
 
Upvote 0

AFrazier

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 1, 2016
1,155
342
52
Mauldin, South Carolina
✟161,508.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
It is the morrow after the WEEKLY 7TH DAY SABBATH that occurs during ULB. Otherwise you cant count 7 Sabbaths to determine Shavuot, unless you have a non-7 day Sabbath every week...do you?
Brother, I am not arguing interpretation with you. It was done how it was done during that time period, regardless of how you choose to interpret it. Personally, I'm with you on the interpretation. However, the Pharisees and Sadducees had a big dispute about the interpretation, the Sadducees interpreting it how you are interpreting it, and the Pharisees that the count began on the second day of Unleavened Bread. There were a number of variables involved. That one scripture is not the only one to be considered in the overall discussion. The Pharisees won the debate. And so, regardless of how you interpret it today, in the here and now, in the first century, they counted the 'Omer from the 16th day of the month. I don't know how many times I have to tell you this, or in how many ways ... that's just how it was done at that time, whether you agree with how they chose to interpret it at that time or not.
 
Upvote 0

Yeshua HaDerekh

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it
May 9, 2013
11,459
3,771
Eretz
✟317,562.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Brother, I am not arguing interpretation with you. It was done how it was done during that time period, regardless of how you choose to interpret it. Personally, I'm with you on the interpretation. However, the Pharisees and Sadducees had a big dispute about the interpretation, the Sadducees interpreting it how you are interpreting it, and the Pharisees that the count began on the second day of Unleavened Bread. There were a number of variables involved. That one scripture is not the only one to be considered in the overall discussion. The Pharisees won the debate. And so, regardless of how you interpret it today, in the here and now, in the first century, they counted the 'Omer from the 16th day of the month. I don't know how many times I have to tell you this, or in how many ways ... that's just how it was done at that time, whether you agree with how they chose to interpret it at that time or not.

I understand that. Rabbinic Jews still do the same today. I am saying it is not correct unless you have 7 NON-7 day Sabbaths to count. My question is where are they...
 
Upvote 0

AFrazier

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 1, 2016
1,155
342
52
Mauldin, South Carolina
✟161,508.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Shalom AFraizer, how do you explain John 18:28? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
It's Hagiga, also called paska. It was the festal offering of the 15th. There's plenty of documentation for this.
 
Upvote 0

AFrazier

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 1, 2016
1,155
342
52
Mauldin, South Carolina
✟161,508.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
I understand that. Rabbinic Jews still do the same today. I am saying it is not correct unless you have 7 NON-7 day Sabbaths to count. My question is where are they...
Do keep in mind that "Sabbath" has also been used to refer to "week" and even "year" in some instances. And as I said, there are other passage involved that need to be considered. One of them says something a little different. I'm at work. I don't have my books and stuff readily at hand. But the debate covered a number of issues. One of the passages even says something to the effect of counting from the firstfruits. Just don't write the practice off out of hand. There's more to the debate than the interpretation of a single scripture.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,578
6,064
EST
✟993,188.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Re: <<*[Shabbaton/rest not "Shabbat]>> The text is 'shabbath shabbathon' -- not only <<[Shabbaton...]>>.
Leviticus 23:32 שׁבת שׁבתון הוא לכם ועניתם את־נפשׁתיכם בתשׁעה לחדשׁ בערב מערב עד־ערב תשׁבתו שׁבתכם׃.
The first highlighted word is שׁבתון/shabbaton. The second highlighted word is תשׁבתו/t'shabbato which means "your rest."
 
Upvote 0

Yeshua HaDerekh

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it
May 9, 2013
11,459
3,771
Eretz
✟317,562.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Do keep in mind that "Sabbath" has also been used to refer to "week" and even "year" in some instances. And as I said, there are other passage involved that need to be considered. One of them says something a little different. I'm at work. I don't have my books and stuff readily at hand. But the debate covered a number of issues. One of the passages even says something to the effect of counting from the firstfruits. Just don't write the practice off out of hand. There's more to the debate than the interpretation of a single scripture.

I understand all that, have for a long time. Yom HaBikkurim (firstfruits) is on a Sunday and that is where you start counting from. Shavuot then is on a Sunday too.
 
Upvote 0

ImAHebrew

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 30, 2003
553
38
St. Louis, MO
Visit site
✟67,313.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
It's Hagiga, also called paska. It was the festal offering of the 15th. There's plenty of documentation for this.
Shalom AFraizer, yes, it was the Passover meal that was required by the Law that they were to eat after sunset as the 15th begins. By the Law, the lambs were to be offered on the afternoon of the 14th, and then eat the Passover on the 15th. This Scripture shows it was still the 14th, as they did not want to become defile for eating the Passover that evening on the 15th, does it not? And for Yeshua to FULFILL the role of The Passover Lamb, would He not be required to be OFFERED at THE Appointed time, on the afternoon of the 14th? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
 
Upvote 0

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Junior Member
Aug 22, 2008
1,409
63
✟14,946.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
In Matthew 27:57, the coming of the evening is the time BEFORE sunset, after the coming of the evening is the NEXT day, after sunset.

Once again, please forgive me for getting exited.

And once again, thank you for questions like this one, certainly one of THE most important for understanding the issues surrounding 'easter'.

Exactly what we have to deal with in these lines, TELLS THE WHOLE STORY. Matthew 27:57 and Mark 15:42 have been translated for halve a millennium in all English Bibles ever published , like the KJV, "When the even was come...", "And now when even was come...". In other translations / versions, "When evening had come..." etc.. Past Perfect in English. Why Past Perfect? Because Greek 'genomenehs' is Aorist -- Aorist "best rendered with Past Perfect" says just about every English grammar.

The first version to change this, was the NIV followed by translations almost without exception world-wide. You are referring to the NIV which renders "as evening approached"??
Right? Right! My language is Afrikaans. Our second translation (first one was 1933) in the 1950's, parrots the NIV, 'late noon'!! Can you imagine, from "evening had come" to 'late noon'!

Something big, is awry! WHY? What is going on?

Exactly what is going on in our discussion.
If Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 say "evening HAD come" / "evening WAS come", it means the day AFTER the day of Crucifixion HAD come / WAS come and Joseph would have buried the body on the day AFTER Crucifixion day -- not on the same day Jesus had died on. And the third day He would RISE on would have had to be the Sabbath after Joseph had buried Him.
[Staff edit].
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Junior Member
Aug 22, 2008
1,409
63
✟14,946.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
in Matthew 27:62, the day that followed the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came to Pilate and asked for the tomb to be guarded. Pilate agreed, and a guard was set, and a "seal" was placed on the stone. Tell me Gerard, what exact day was this all done on? The day following the "preparation of the Passover," or the day following the "preparation of the weekly Sabbath?"

Yes, the matter is 'settled' as follows, In Matthew 27:62, the day that followed the preparation, could not be the Sabbath. The chief priests and Pharisees would not come to Pilate and ask him for the tomb to be guarded on the Sabbath, because that would be against the Law. Pilate only agreed, and a guard was set, and a "seal" placed on the stone, because it was not the Sabbath, but another day they connived with him. Therefore it was <<The day following the "preparation of the Passover,">>, not <<the day following the "preparation of the weekly Sabbath">>.

I am reading your mind? No, I'm not gifted. Just acquainted with these 'arguments'.

So what's my answer?

The hypocrites couldn't care less for transgressing the Sabbath Law or desecrating its holy hours! Their reputation was at stake. And their FEAR constrained their every move and decision. It was "the Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD", but they would do ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING lawless and wicked on it to prevent the WORD OF THE PROPHET JESUS AND OF ALL THE PROPHETS CONCERNING HIM COME TRUE.

The snake bit fast its tail and hypocrites across the gulf met kin.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0