How come good Friday is only two days from Easter Sunday?

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

If Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 say "evening HAD come" / "evening WAS come", it means the day AFTER the day of Crucifixion HAD come / WAS come and Joseph would have buried the body on the day AFTER Crucifixion day -- not on the same day Jesus had died on.

I don't know where you get this from...He was buried on the 14th before sunset.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The "evening" by first century Jewish understanding was any time after high noon, as the sun began moving towards the western horizon. That's why the were able to sacrifice the lamb at 2:00 in the afternoon. The lamb was supposed to be slain on "the evening" of the 14th. The Talmud very clearly defines what this means.

The "evening" by sixteenth and seventeenth century English, was sometimes understood as <<any time after high noon, as the sun began moving towards the western horizon>>. That's why they were able to translate 'behn-ha-arba-yim' with "evening" as the time of day the passover lamb was sacrificed <<at 3:00>>.

<<The lamb was supposed to be slain on "the evening" of the 14th.>> The expression, 'behn-ha-arba-yim' literally, 'behn'-"between".'ha'-"the".'arba'-"quarters".'yim'-"of days" (accompanied/alternated with 'ereb'-"late"), defined, means "mid-afternoon" or "mid-declining," 3.p.m. at 45˚ towards horizontal at sunset 6 p.m..

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I don't know where you get this from...He was buried on the 14th before sunset.

Just so. That's what the 'new' translations say and mean. That's what the NIV et al now a days say and want it to mean.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Shalom AFraizer, yes, it was the Passover meal that was required by the Law that they were to eat after sunset as the 15th begins. By the Law, the lambs were to be offered on the afternoon of the 14th, and then eat the Passover on the 15th. This Scripture shows it was still the 14th, as they did not want to become defile for eating the Passover that evening on the 15th, does it not? And for Yeshua to FULFILL the role of The Passover Lamb, would He not be required to be OFFERED at THE Appointed time, on the afternoon of the 14th? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Amen! I am in full agreement. Beautiful! How pleasant!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Wieder alles falsch! If you say that I contradict the Hebrew and LXX and the Jewish Encyclopedia which I quoted you need to show that I do, not just make an empty accusation.

I have already addressed these. Scripture cannot contradict each other therefore nothing in any other scripture can contradict Exo 12:16, the very first mention of the feast of unleavened bread [ULB]. When God told Moses about all His feasts He said the 1st/7th days of ULB were holy convocations. God did not say they were Sabbaths and they differ from a Sabbath because the preparation of food is specifically permitted. All work of any kind is strictly forbidden on the Sabbath.

Exodus 12:16
(16) And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.​

So far so good.

Now what about it?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Three gospels say that Jesus and the disciples ate the Passover. What you're saying here is not correct. You're a day early. Unless you know of a scriptural or historical precedent to demonstrate how the Passover could be eaten on the 13th/14th rather than the 14th/15th.

Show it!
There is no instance of any Finite, Indicative Predicate or Verb that Jesus actually "ate".

But a <<scriptural historical precedent>> demonstrating that and how the passover was eaten on the 13th/14th rather than the 14th/15th is the Exodus 12 instance of the original exodus passover.
Consult http://www.biblestudents.co.za/books/Book 1, 1 Passover to Crucifixion.pdf page 51 Par. 5.1.1.6.1.3.1.

 

[AFrazier]

Shalom AFraizer, yes, it was the Passover meal that was required by the Law that they were to eat after sunset as the 15th begins. By the Law, the lambs were to be offered on the afternoon of the 14th, and then eat the Passover on the 15th. This Scripture shows it was still the 14th, as they did not want to become defile for eating the Passover that evening on the 15th, does it not? And for Yeshua to FULFILL the role of The Passover Lamb, would He not be required to be OFFERED at THE Appointed time, on the afternoon of the 14th? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

I think you missed the point I was making. There are two sacrifices. There is the actual paska on the 14th, to be eaten after sunset when it became the 15th. Then there is the hagiga, or festal offering that they sacrificed on the 15th, which they also called paska.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I understand all that, have for a long time. Yom HaBikkurim (firstfruits) is on a Sunday and that is where you start counting from. Shavuot then is on a Sunday too.

Take for granted a mere assumption and start count from there .... I won't.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Understand that four things happened. Spices were prepared. They rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment. Spices were bought. And they came to the sepulcher early on the first day of the week, bringing with them the spices they had prepared.[6] It is absolutely possible to prepare some spices that are on hand, rest on the Sabbath, and then purchase additional spices that may have been needed but were not in their possession. There is no contradiction in this chain of events.

<<There is no contradiction in this chain of events.>>

Who said there is?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

why would Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James be purchasing spices, resting on the Sabbath, and then buying more spices after the Sabbath?

The Gospels say what they say; no more, nothing else, nothing less. NO QUERIES.


What for CREATE discrepancies assuming unreal things,


As that <<Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James purchas(ed) spices>>?


As that <<Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James (bought) more spices after the Sabbath>>?


Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James did not purchase spices. They “prepared spices and ointments”.


Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James bought no spices after the Sabbath. “Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James AND SALOME bought spices.”


You’re building straw women. What for?


O, what the heck do facts matter… what’s it worth actual actions are mentioned? What waste one’s breath on finding out just who did what? Why pay attention to frivolities like days and times of days given? And what’s the importance of this whole unsavoury spices speculation for an accidental crucifixion and burial?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Furthermore, there were, at the very least, five women involved in this scenario. Between Mark and Luke, we know that Mary Magdalene, Joanna the wife of Chuza, who was Herod’s steward, Mary the mother of James the less and Joses, Salome, the mother of Zebedee’s children, and at least one other woman according to the plural, “other women,” in Luke, were all present at the sepulcher.[7] And it’s highly probable that the same women who had been ministering to Jesus all along, who “came with [Jesus] from Galilee, [and] followed after, and beheld the sepulchre,” were also participating, being the “many other women” according to Mark.[8]

<<involved in this scenario>>... WHICH <scenario>?

Only the two Marys were <<present at the sepulcher>> and therefore only the two Marys were <<involved in this scenario>> -- that is, if by any means any trust could be placed in the records of three Gospel writers as regards to women and <<this scenario...at the sepulchre>>.

Re: <<it’s highly probable that the same women who had been ministering to Jesus all along, who “came with [Jesus] from Galilee, [and] followed after, and beheld the sepulchre,” were also participating, being the “many other women” according to Mark.>>

<<according to Mark...>> what's that?

It is not only <<highly probable>>, it as definite as the fact their NAMES ARE WRITTEN, that the same women who had been ministering to Jesus all along, who “came with [Jesus] from Galilee, [and] followed after, and beheld the sepulchre,” were also participating, being present with the “many other women” according to THREE of the four Gospels, at the Crucifixion.

Who wants to argue against God's Word?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

a Nisan 15th crucifixion prohibits the possibility of a dual Sabbath event,

Yes, if a Nisan 15th crucifixion were possible. But ... of course, never would have been possible, because the LAW commanded the passover lamb to be killed on the fourteenth -- NEVER EVER ON THE FIFTEENTH.

As simple and as FINAL as the WRITTEN LAW!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Leviticus 23:32 שׁבת שׁבתון הוא לכם ועניתם את־נפשׁתיכם בתשׁעה לחדשׁ בערב מערב עד־ערב תשׁבתו שׁבתכם׃.The first highlighted word is שׁבתון/shabbaton. The second highlighted word is תשׁבתו/t'shabbato which means "your rest."

Thanks for the full picture.

I can't even be called a beginner in / with Hebrew. I must completely rely on things like textbooks and lexicons and help from others.

 

[Der Alte]

<<involved in this scenario>>... WHICH <scenario>?
Only the two Marys were <<present at the sepulcher>> and therefore only the two Marys were <<involved in this scenario>> -- that is, if by any means any trust could be placed in the records of three Gospel writers as regards to women and <<this scenario...at the sepulchre>>.
Re: <<it’s highly probable that the same women who had been ministering to Jesus all along, who “came with [Jesus] from Galilee, [and] followed after, and beheld the sepulchre,” were also participating, being the “many other women” according to Mark.>>
<<according to Mark...>> what's that?
It is not only <<highly probable>>, it as definite as the fact their NAMES ARE WRITTEN, that the same women who had been ministering to Jesus all along, who “came with [Jesus] from Galilee, [and] followed after, and beheld the sepulchre,” were also participating, being present with the “many other women” according to THREE of the four Gospels, at the Crucifixion.
Who wants to argue against God's Word?

Matthew 27:61
(61) And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.
Mark 16:1
(1) And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Luke 23:55-56
(55) And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
(56) And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Luke 24:1
(1) Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they [vs. 55] came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
John 20:1
(1) The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.​

 

[ImAHebrew]

Once again, please forgive me for getting exited.

And once again, thank you for questions like this one, certainly one of THE most important for understanding the issues surrounding 'easter'.

Exactly what we have to deal with in these lines, TELL THE WHOLE STORY. Matthew 27:57 and Mark 15:42 have been translated for halve a millennium in all English Bibles ever published , like the KJV, "When the even was come...", "And now when even was come...". In other translations / versions, "When evening had come..." etc.. Past Perfect in English. Why Past Perfect? Because Greek 'genomenehs' is Aorist -- Aorist "best rendered with Past Perfect" says just about every English grammar.

The first version to change this, was the NIV followed by translations almost without exception world-wide. You are referring to the NIV which renders "as evening approached"??
Right? Right! My language is Afrikaans. Our second translation (first one was 1933) in the 1950's, parrots the NIV, 'late noon'!! Can you imagine, from "evening had come" to 'late noon'!

Something big, is awry! WHY? What is going on?

Exactly what is going on in our discussion.
If Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 say "evening HAD come" / "evening WAS come", it means the day AFTER the day of Crucifixion HAD come / WAS come and Joseph would have buried the body on the day AFTER Crucifixion day -- not on the same day Jesus had died on. And the third day He would RISE on would have had to be the Sabbath after Joseph had buried Him.
AND THAT NEVER MUST BE ALLOWED OR THE WHOLE CHURCH WOULD HAVE EGG ON ITS FACE.

Shalom Gerhard, please consider something here. In the Law, we are commanded that those who labor are to receive their HIRE, BEFORE the sun goes down:

Deuteronomy 24:15 At his day thou shalt give [him] his hire, neither shall the sun go down upon it; for he [is] poor, and setteth his heart upon it: lest he cry against thee unto Yahweh, and it be sin unto thee.

Yeshua tells us a parable about labourers receiving their HIRE:

Matthew 20:8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them [their] hire, beginning from the last unto the first.

My question to you Gerhard, was Yeshua telling us that these laborers were receiving their HIRE (Deuteronomy 24:15), BEFORE the sun went down (on that day), or AFTER the sun went down (the next day), when even was come? Do you see what I am asking you? Would Yeshua tell a parable, that goes AGAINST the Law, by saying the NEXT day had come before they were paid? I believe you may need to reconsider just exactly what "evening was come" means. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Shalom Gerhard, please consider something here. In the Law, we are commanded that those who labor are to receive their HIRE, BEFORE the sun goes down:

Deuteronomy 24:15 At his day thou shalt give [him] his hire, neither shall the sun go down upon it; for he [is] poor, and setteth his heart upon it: lest he cry against thee unto Yahweh, and it be sin unto thee.

Yeshua tells us a parable about labourers receiving their HIRE:

Matthew 20:8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them [their] hire, beginning from the last unto the first.

My question to you Gerhard, was Yeshua telling us that these laborers were receiving their HIRE (Deuteronomy 24:15), BEFORE the sun went down (on that day), or AFTER the sun went down (the next day), when even was come? Do you see what I am asking you? Would Yeshua tell a parable, that goes AGAINST the Law, by saying the NEXT day had come before they were paid? I believe you may need to reconsider just exactly what "evening was come" means. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Ja, this is an interesting case. Patience ... I need to refresh my memory and so on. Even thought to go to bed now quarter to one in the morning. So first it's good night / morning, what the heck, haven't I given you the answer?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Take for granted a mere assumption and start count from there .... I won't.

A mere assumption? yeah right...

 

[ImAHebrew]

Ja, this is an interesting case. Patience ... I need to refresh my memory and so on. Even thought to go to bed now quarter to one in the morning. So first it's good night / morning, what the heck, haven't I given you the answer?

Shalom Gerhard, not yet. What you may need to consider is that "when evening/even was come," all that is telling us is that the ending of the day had arrived, not that the next day had come. The Scripture speaks of "between the evenings."

Exodus 12:6 ‘And you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month. Then all the assembly of the congregation of Yisra’ĕl shall kill it between (H996) the evenings.

The KJV says "in the evening," so are we to believe that the Passover is to be killed AFTER sunset, when the EVENING was come? Gerhard, there are TWO evenings. The evening at the END of the day, and when this "even was come," we know that the day was ENDING. Once the sun sets, the evening of the next day begins (sort of a twilight period, where there is still light from the setting sun, but not yet completely dark), and it was BETWEEN the evenings that the Passover was to be sacrificed, not the next day. Hope this helps you to get some sleep. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[AFrazier]

Yes, if a Nisan 15th crucifixion were possible. But ... of course, never would have been possible, because the LAW commanded the passover lamb to be killed on the fourteenth -- NEVER EVER ON THE FIFTEENTH.

As simple and as FINAL as the WRITTEN LAW!

It's scripture. It's fact. [Staff edit].

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Shalom Gerhard, please consider something here. In the Law, we are commanded that those who labor are to receive their HIRE, BEFORE the sun goes down:


Deuteronomy 24:15 At his day thou shalt give [him] his hire, neither shall the sun go down upon it; for he [is] poor, and setteth his heart upon it: lest he cry against thee unto Yahweh, and it be sin unto thee.


Yeshua tells us a parable about labourers receiving their HIRE:


Matthew 20:8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them [their] hire, beginning from the last unto the first.


My question to you Gerhard, was Yeshua telling us that these laborers were receiving their HIRE (Deuteronomy 24:15), BEFORE the sun went down (on that day), or AFTER the sun went down (the next day), when even was come? Do you see what I am asking you? Would Yeshua tell a parable, that goes AGAINST the Law, by saying the NEXT day had come before they were paid? I believe you may need to reconsider just exactly what "evening was come" means. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/how-come-good-friday-is-only-two-days-from-easter-sunday.8004545/page-30#606

Ja, this is an interesting case. Patience ... I need to refresh my memory and so on. Even thought to go to bed now quarter to one in the morning. So first it's good night / morning, what the heck, haven't I given you the answer?


Deuteronomy 24:15 At his day thou shalt give [him] his hire, neither shall the sun go down upon it; for he [is] poor, and setteth his heart upon it: lest he cry against thee unto Yahweh, and it be sin unto thee.


I think this an instance of metaphor. An agreement on a day for payment is presupposed, There will be “his day”, or date, “at” which payment must be made. That day and date comes and goes and the poor man does not get paid. I know from experience what it feels like. And from experience I learned, the sun is going to go down on the whole matter. Forget it pal, you’ll never get paid. The chancer isn’t going to honour his oath and isn’t going to give you a dime. Write it off and face north and press on. It’s the only medicine. God knows!


If the rich partner in the poor man’s contract paid him betimes, he would have had his money in his bank before 12 p.m. at his day signed. But paper is as good or bad as someone’s word. And few rich have any conscience.


But suppose Deuteronomy 24:15 isn’t a case in metaphor but in literalness, how would it affect literalness in Matthew 20:8,

“So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them [their] hire, beginning from the last unto the first”?


“The householder … agreed with the (first) labourers for a penny a day.” verse 2.


“The last”, “were hired the eleventh hour”, verse 9.

How long did they work?

“These last have worked only one hour.” verse 12.


Therefore a day, had 12 hours.


“So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them [their] hire, beginning from the last unto the first.”


“When even was come”, is literal. All workers worked until and for the whole of the twelfth hour, sunset, after which everybody got paid.


So did the lord transgress the Law per Deuteronomy 24:15?


No, “Their”, agreed on pay- “day”, was immediately after the twelfth hour the end of the day, the sun, set. “Their day” of agreement to work, ended, the sun, set “When even was come” and it was past “the twelfth hour” and past their workday. The lord did not transgress the Law per Deuteronomy 24:15!

And “When even was come”, was and still is literally, “when even was come”— “When even was ALREADY come” as literally in Mark 15:42, and as supposed in Matthew 27:57, and in the following night in Luke 23:56b, and in the following night in Mark 16:1.