How can you discern between the natural and the supernatural?

[Kylie]

You infer that from a lifetime of observing natural events. But you dont KNOW that it holds true for the supernatural and its effects.

Basically: you are trying to make sense where we cannot be sure there is any... Or not the sort of sense we're accustomed to.

You think I only rely on the events I have experienced?

I also rely on the systematic and repeated testing of the real world by thousands of people all around the world, and over many centuries.

Stop acting as though I'm an isolated little bubble, because I'm not.

 

[TillICollapse]

You mean after you write long posts to me that rely on an assumption and I point it out you get mad.

I didn't get mad, again, yet another false assumption you've made. But now you're at the point where you're on the level of trolling with your ad hom statements, so good day to you.

 

[Rajni]

How can you discern between the natural and supernatural? Once a supernatural thing occurs within our physical world, it is no longer beyond the laws of the physical world and would therefore be part of the natural world.

Yeah, I think the term 'supernatural' is often applied to
that for which one doesn't yet have a natural
explanation. What's the saying .... "Magic is simply that
which science hasn't made boring yet".

Having experienced what I would call 'unexplained
phenomena' (too mild to be outright supernatural) here
at home over the years, a term I like to use as an
alternative to even calling it 'paranormal' is something
called 'perinormal'. Perinormal things are those which
were originally considered paranormal but were then
scientifically confirmed to be perfectly normal (natural).
I haven't scientifically confirmed the list of events here as
natural, but I just bear in mind that, as intriguing as those
events have been, they could easily turn out to be
peri- rather than para-.


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[TillICollapse]

Yeah, I think the term 'supernatural' is often applied to
that for which one doesn't yet have a natural
explanation. What's the saying .... "Magic is simply that
which science hasn't made boring yet".

Having experienced what I would call 'unexplained
phenomena' (too mild to be outright supernatural) here
at home over the years, a term I like to use as an
alternative to even calling it 'paranormal' is something
called 'perinormal'. Perinormal things are those which
were originally considered paranormal but were then
scientifically confirmed to be perfectly normal (natural).
I haven't scientifically confirmed the list of events here as
natural, but I just bear in mind that, as intriguing as those
events have been, they could easily turn out to be
peri- rather than para-.


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Aww I'd like to hear one of your examples if you're willing

 

[Loudmouth]

We we recently in our family had a supernatural event. One of our relatives in China contracted a disease that was incurable, or al leat most people die from. We were praying in Australia for her as a family as I prayed I felt a really strong sense that all the family members would be saved. But what happened was that she got worse and worse, to the pont she entered a coma state. The doctors gave up on her and told the father of the woman to call together all the family members for a funeral. All the family (in China) was flown into the city. The father of the girl did not give up praying, as he was praying he felt a strong impression that she had been healed. So he asked the doctor to let him in to see her. When the doctor went in she had been completely healed. She came out of the coma, she has left the hospital. on seeing this all the family members who came for the funeral gave their lives to Jesus.

People naturally recover from illnesses, so I am wondering why you think it was supernatural. Also, how do you explain all of the people who die from illnesses, even though people pray for them?

 

[Davian]

We we recently in our family had a supernatural event. One of our relatives in China contracted a disease that was incurable, or al leat most people die from. We were praying in Australia for her as a family as I prayed I felt a really strong sense that all the family members would be saved. But what happened was that she got worse and worse, to the pont she entered a coma state. The doctors gave up on her and told the father of the woman to call together all the family members for a funeral. All the family (in China) was flown into the city. The father of the girl did not give up praying, as he was praying he felt a strong impression that she had been healed. So he asked the doctor to let him in to see her. When the doctor went in she had been completely healed. She came out of the coma, she has left the hospital. on seeing this all the family members who came for the funeral gave their lives to Jesus.

You describe this disease as something that most people die from, having contracted it.

Do you think that, for many, if not most of, those that died from it, that they were not prayed for by family and friends to recover?

 

[durangodawood]

You think I only rely on the events I have experienced?

I also rely on the systematic and repeated testing of the real world by thousands of people all around the world, and over many centuries.

Stop acting as though I'm an isolated little bubble, because I'm not.

Most people are in the same boat. Its not just you.

 

[Froesler]

For someone to categorically affirm that something is natural or supernatural that person would have to know very well the whole structure of nature, which I believe to be an inaccessible knowledge to any sinner like us.
I put my faith in God, then I believe that everything inside God's will is natural.

 

[Rajni]

Aww I'd like to hear one of your examples if you're willing

The most common occurrence seems to be shadow-
figures, which my kids have witnessed more than
I have (though I saw a shadow entity quite clearly once
when I was a kid).

Anyway, one example occurred a few years ago when my
son, who was about 14 at the time, came and asked me
if I had walked through the rec-room. I told him no, I
hadn't. He said the reason he asked is that while he was
in there he saw the reflection on the TV screen (which,
not yet turned on, acts as a mirror) of someone walking
through the room behind him. The image was darkish so
he couldn't make out any features. It was substantial
enough, though, that he dropped what he was doing to
come and verify whether or not it was me.

Whether it was para-normal or peri-normal, it definitely
made us go, "Hmmmm...... "

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[Kylie]

Most people are in the same boat. Its not just you.

Care to actually address what I said?

 

[FutureAndAHope]

People naturally recover from illnesses, so I am wondering why you think it was supernatural. Also, how do you explain all of the people who die from illnesses, even though people pray for them?

Hi guys,

well the fact is in this situation that the doctors had given up, they wrote a letter to the family telling them they were going to turn off life support. Like I said the father did not give up, he prayed earnestly just before life support was to go. He said to the doctor "I believe Jesus has healed her", the doctors did not believe him, but they went in, and she was completely well, out of the coma, she remains well. It was so powerful in the eye of all of them that even two doctors gave their lives to Jesus.

 

[variant]

Nm.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Yeah, I think the term 'supernatural' is often applied to
that for which one doesn't yet have a natural
explanation. What's the saying .... "Magic is simply that
which science hasn't made boring yet".

I find this attitude exasperating. Boring?! Are you serious? There is far more beauty and wonder to be found in science than in myths based on magic. Science is enthralling, and yet some people still think that magic is more exciting, more magical (yes, I'm aware of the subtle equivocation here).

The most common occurrence seems to be shadow-
figures, which my kids have witnessed more than
I have (though I saw a shadow entity quite clearly once
when I was a kid).

Anyway, one example occurred a few years ago when my
son, who was about 14 at the time, came and asked me
if I had walked through the rec-room. I told him no, I
hadn't. He said the reason he asked is that while he was
in there he saw the reflection on the TV screen (which,
not yet turned on, acts as a mirror) of someone walking
through the room behind him. The image was darkish so
he couldn't make out any features. It was substantial
enough, though, that he dropped what he was doing to
come and verify whether or not it was me.

Whether it was para-normal or peri-normal, it definitely
made us go, "Hmmmm...... "

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-

I once thought I saw a horse walk into the bar I was at. And no, I was not drunk. I hadn't even had anything to drink at that stage, though I was tired. The mind is capable of generating some very unusual experiences.

 

[Loudmouth]

Hi guys,

well the fact is in this situation that the doctors had given up, they wrote a letter to the family telling them they were going to turn off life support. Like I said the father did not give up, he prayed earnestly just before life support was to go. He said to the doctor "I believe Jesus has healed her", the doctors did not believe him, but they went in, and she was completely well, out of the coma, she remains well. It was so powerful in the eye of all of them that even two doctors gave their lives to Jesus.

People can naturally recover from illnesses, even when the doctors have given up on them. Also, people die from these illnesses even when people are praying for them.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

FYI: Hi all the details were a little scetchy on my first post about this story. This is written by me in Australia, but taken from the most recent account from my wifes sister account of events in China that we got last night. We plan to get even more details in the coming months. If anything needs to be clarified I will add it later.


Recently we had a family member in China who contracted a rare virus, a sickness from which few people ever survive. In China the woman was shifted from hospital to hospital with no one being able to treat the disease. Eventually she was taken in by a hospital in Shanghi. Where her condition worstened. She eventually entered a coma state, and was no longer responsive to treatment. A state in which she remained for a long time. As a family we all prayed for her to be healed, many were praying in China, and my wife asked me if we could pray also (here in Australia). She asked me to pray for her healing and for the salvation of her unsaved family members. I layed hands on my wife, and spoke out what she had asked. As I spoke I felt a very strong impression that many people would be saved. It was so distinct and intrusive that it made me almost withdraw back in shock. But in China the doctors considered the situation and sent a death notice to the family, considering her to be no longer alive. The family prepared them selves by asking their close family members in China to come for the last viewing of the woman around 20 to 30 people. On that day, the father of the girl a Christian did not give up praying. As he was praying outside the room, he felt a very strong impression from God that his daughter was awake, and it would be a testimony of God's ability. He kept asking the doctors to let him in to see her, but the doctors felt it was impossible, that there was no reason to do this. Eventually they allowed the father in and they found her awake, out of the coma. Not long after the family arrived. On seeing what had occured many of the family members who did not believe in Jesus gave their lives to Him. Also some of the doctors who saw this happen also gave their lives to Jesus. The woman has been back for regular checks to the hospital, and is normal, and back at home.

I will keep the story up to date on the following webiste:

Everybody Matters Ministry | Online Church

 

[TillICollapse]

FYI: Hi all the details were a little scetchy on my first post about this story. This is written by me in Australia, but taken from the most recent account from my wifes sister account of events in China that we got last night. We plan to get even more details in the coming months. If anything needs to be clarified I will add it later.


Recently we had a family member in China who contracted a rare virus, a sickness from which few people ever survive. In China the woman was shifted from hospital to hospital with no one being able to treat the disease. Eventually she was taken in by a hospital in Shanghi. Where her condition worstened. She eventually entered a coma state, and was no longer responsive to treatment. A state in which she remained for a long time. As a family we all prayed for her to be healed, many were praying in China, and my wife asked me if we could pray also (here in Australia). She asked me to pray for her healing and for the salvation of her unsaved family members. I layed hands on my wife, and spoke out what she had asked. As I spoke I felt a very strong impression that many people would be saved. It was so distinct and intrusive that it made me almost withdraw back in shock. But in China the doctors considered the situation and sent a death notice to the family, considering her to be no longer alive. The family prepared them selves by asking their close family members in China to come for the last viewing of the woman around 20 to 30 people. On that day, the father of the girl a Christian did not give up praying. As he was praying outside the room, he felt a very strong impression from God that his daughter was awake, and it would be a testimony of God's ability. He kept asking the doctors to let him in to see her, but the doctors felt it was impossible, that there was no reason to do this. Eventually they allowed the father in and they found her awake, out of the coma. Not long after the family arrived. On seeing what had occured many of the family members who did not believe in Jesus gave their lives to Him. Also some of the doctors who saw this happen also gave their lives to Jesus. The woman has been back for regular checks to the hospital, and is normal, and back at home.

I will keep the story up to date on the following webiste:

Everybody Matters Ministry | Online Church

I'd be interested in any medical details you'd feel comfortable sharing, any that you could get information wise.

 

[Loudmouth]

Recently we had a family member in China who contracted a rare virus, a sickness from which few people ever survive.

If some people naturally survive the infection, then no supernatural act is required.

 

[TillICollapse]

The most common occurrence seems to be shadow-
figures, which my kids have witnessed more than
I have (though I saw a shadow entity quite clearly once
when I was a kid).

Anyway, one example occurred a few years ago when my
son, who was about 14 at the time, came and asked me
if I had walked through the rec-room. I told him no, I
hadn't. He said the reason he asked is that while he was
in there he saw the reflection on the TV screen (which,
not yet turned on, acts as a mirror) of someone walking
through the room behind him. The image was darkish so
he couldn't make out any features. It was substantial
enough, though, that he dropped what he was doing to
come and verify whether or not it was me.

Whether it was para-normal or peri-normal, it definitely
made us go, "Hmmmm...... "

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Hey thanks for sharing

 

[SuperCloud]

How can you discern between the natural and supernatural? Once a supernatural thing occurs within our physical world, it is no longer beyond the laws of the physical world and would therefore be part of the natural world.

Phenomena that defies the laws of physics and chemistry.

You can't appeal to science and the laws of science but then turn around and claim science with it's laws are meaningless.

If I were to catch a bullet, fired 10 feet away from a .45 caliber 1911 pistol, in between my teeth, while I'm terrible at physics I have enough common sense to confidently say that the act itself would defy the laws of physics. That would be super-natural.

 

[Rajni]

Hey thanks for sharing

My pleasure!

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