How can we tell ppl that homosexuality is wrong?

[graciesings]

The thing is, I don't believe in black and white morals. I don't believe in good and evil, at least not the same way you do. I think that there is a balance of what is good for yourself and what is good for the community(or tribe might be more accurate) that makes up what we consider good and bad in society today. It is clear that morals are ever changing. I mean just look at the last hundred years and how the treatment of women and non-white people has changed! Clearly they are changing more rapidly than ever before, but I think that has to do with a deeper understanding of how things work. We are actually starting to base our morals off of our understanding of the universe rather than on ancient texts.

I was expecting that. Many atheists (and some Christians who don't think things through) believe in this, it's called "Moral relativism."

The idea is that morals are relative: Either relative to the community/tribe or relative to oneself.

The problem is the sinful nature of man, which I mentioned in the last post... I think you'd agree with me that there's some evil in people? Anyway, the problem is, what if the "best for you" is bad for everyone else? Or what if one thing is best for most of the tribe? If the 75% enslave the 25%, is it right because it works for the most people? 75% are happy... oh, and what if the community/tribe is more prosperous after enslaving that 25%? Then is it a good thing?

See, in my mind, the problem with moral relativism is that with enough effort it can be twisted to make absolutely terrible things "right..."

 

[RDKirk]

It doesn't really matter that much how you say it. No matter what it still sounds terrible telling someone that the way they are is sinful.

I don't know what concept is in your head when you say "sinful," but it is certainly unreasonable to assert that society can never determine that any conceivable "lifestyle" is detrimental to society and cannot be tolerated.

Society can look at a Jeffery Dahlmer or an Al Capone and say "the way you are is sinful." Societies always have and societies always must. Even Al Capone, as a king within his own micro-society, had a concept of social behavior that he would not tolerate.

One writer has said, "There may not be absolute morality, but everyone acts as though there is."

For example, many years ago I was in a class in which on Monday a woman asserted vigorously there was no such thing as absolute morality and nothing that was absolutely right or wrong.

That very next class session, on Wednesday, that same woman asserted with the same amount of vigor that preventing a woman from getting an abortion was always wrong.

 

[RDKirk]

Homosexuality is not a positive genetic mutation from a "survival of the fittest" perspective, however that doesn't make it wrong... or does it? Thing is, if homosexuality is wrong for that reason, then it's also wrong to be disabled.

And, yes, older societies have determined that it is "wrong" to be disabled.

It might have been early Christians in Rome who were the first to determine that birth defects were not wrong, as they went out and rescued defective newborn babies that the pagan Romans left in the woods to die.

 

[RDKirk]

This anti-gay thing is what will kill the modern church. Either the current churches are going to have to reform, or other more liberal churches will take their place. I think the catholic church may be realizing this.

I do suspect that in the US, "this anti-gay thing" will be the equivalent of "refusing to sacrifice to the Roman patron gods" for the Church in America.

And, yes, it will kill "the modern church" and the "current churches will have to reform." That's because the current churches are built on an assumption that American culture is their own native culture. Christians in America treasure being Americans above being Christians, and don't see the problem with this picture.


But, of course, the church in America is not the church everywhere. As God said to Elijah when Elijah thought he was the only one left, "Yet I reserve seven thousand--all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and whose mouths have not kissed him."

 

[Historicus]

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[LadyOfMystery]

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