How can RCs and Protestants reconcile

[chestertonrules]

Keeper of the keys?
I found the problem.

To quote Chesterton (more or less)

It is all well and good to wish for a more simple key, but in the end, all that really matters when it comes to keys is that they open the door.



Jesus did not use this analogy on a whim.

 

[chestertonrules]

Because they're all at different levels of maturity, just
like the folks in your own denomination silly.
Besides, we can only understand so much... we can only
'know' in part for now.
Let's be happy with the basics and love on each other so
that the world might know that we are His.

Who decides what the basics are?

Are Billy Grahm, Pope Benedict, and Desmond Tutu all at different levels of maturity, or at different levels of truth?

Jesus promised the disciples that the Holy Spirit would lead them into all truth.

 

[squint]

To quote Chestertonmore or less)

It is all well and good to wish for a more simple key, but in the end, all that really matters when it comes to keys is that they open the door.

Jesus did not use this analogy on a whim.

That 'key' was certainly not delivered for a group or a sect to put a horsecollar of their own understanding upon same and then use that understanding to beat and condemn other people with same either 'chesterton.'

 

[chestertonrules]

That 'key' was certainly not delivered for a group or a sect to put a horsecollar of their own understanding upon same and then use that understanding to beat and condemn other people with same either 'chesterton.'

It was a gift to bring us to Christian unity and salvation.

Why do you think Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom?

 

[Uphill Battle]

It does to me.

as I said before...to those who profit from it.

How can you consult an invisible collection of believers?

nobody suggested that you do.

(but I find this quite droll, since Catholics pray to the passed on saints, who are by all standards, invisible collection of believers, whom are consulted by Catholics.)

Don't be afraid to confront uncomfortable truths.

There is nothing uncomfortable for me at all. As far as I'm concerned, what you have said has been refuted over and over ad nauseum, you just repeat the same things you always do.

[/quote]
The Church was founded by Jesus, even if you don't want to hear about it.[/quote]yes, the church was. I love to hear about it. I just don't buy your spin on it.

Individuals disagree about where the Holy Spirit leads, which is why there are thousands of Churches led by bible believing Christians who claim to be led by the Holy Spirit.

Why don't they all agree with eachother?

why don't Catholics all agree with each other?

Jesus promised the disciples that the Holy Spirit would lead them into all truth.

tell me... what does the RCC teach regarding creation.... literal, or figurative, with the room for evolutionary concept?

come now, it's ALL truth, you should have an answer.

 

[Hentenza]

I said:

Originally Posted by Hentenza

Nope. No bias on my part. I love all of my RC brothers and sisters in Christ. Can you say the same?
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This is a biased statement which you can't prove or even defend:

Which in no way shape or form refers to the Roman Catholic Church.
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What does my statement have to do with loving my RC brothers and sisters in Christ? Again, I am going to ask you, do you love your protestant brothers and sisters in Christ?

Interesting that you choose to ignore one of the very points of disunity in your own church. Can you tell me how you can continue to make the claim of unity when you have a large population of RC that do not believe that abortion is murder?

Individuals ignoring doctrine or truth has nothing to do with the unity of Church teaching with regard to doctrine and truth.

The Church teaching is not ambiguous.

Sure it is. How can you have unity if your own Chrusch's congregation do not agree with "some" of it's teachings?

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The Church admits as much.

Have you ever considered that unity in doctrine and truth is impossible outside the Catholic Church? If you claim it is possible, please tell me how this would come about.

Which church? Yours? EO? OO? Anglican? Baptist? Again, all you continue to have is a claim of unity with no outward or inward proof.

FYI:


Wounds to unity
817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin: Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271
818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272 819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276
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http://christianforums.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=50541069
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I am well acquainted with the RC catechism. That is really mostly what I studied in my 22 years as a RC. All self claim remains a self claim.

Tell me, have you ever questioned a teaching (any teaching) of the RC? Do you follow and agree with ALL of it's teachings?

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[Albion]

It was a gift to bring us to Christian unity and salvation.

Why do you think Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom?

You can believe whatever you want to about that. We need to be talking about possibilities for reconciliation. That's the only reason this thread exists.

 

[chestertonrules]

I said:

What does my statement have to do with loving my RC brothers and sisters in Christ? Again, I am going to ask you, do you love your protestant brothers and sisters in Christ?

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Sure it is. How can you have unity if your own Chrusch's congregation do not agree with "some" of it's teachings?

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Which church? Yours? EO? OO? Anglican? Baptist? Again, all you continue to have is a claim of unity with no outward or inward proof.







I am well acquainted with the RC catechism. That is really mostly what I studied in my 22 years as a RC. All self claim remains a self claim.

Tell me, have you ever questioned a teaching (any teaching) of the RC? Do you follow and agree with ALL of it's teachings?

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Of course I have. I was very anti Catholic for most of my life.

I now accept that Jesus did start a Church to preserve the truth and to help lead us to salvation.


The bible and tradition support the teachings of the Church.

You ignore these biblical passages for some reason. Jesus established a Church and a hierarchy.

Here is some evidence that you can ignore or accept:

23With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. 24We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.

(Does this remind you of anything?)

Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Matthew 16

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

 

[chestertonrules]

You can believe whatever you want to about that. We need to be talking about possibilities for reconciliation. That's the only reason this thread exists.

My belief is that reconciliation is only possible within the Catholic Church.

That is what I am promoting as the surest path to Christian unity.

I understand that many disagree.

 

[Albion]

How is unity in the fullness of truth possible outside the Catholic Church?

You can all join my church.

Anyway, unity has never been achieved INSIDE the Catholic Church, so the question doesn't make sense. In fact, the Catholic Church has been the leading force in history for dividing Christians. First it kissed off the Eastern churches, then drove the early Reformers out of the church when they did not want two different churches, then schismed from the Church of England, and more recently virtually forced the Old Catholics to start independent churches. That's a record of wanting disunity, not the opposite.

 

[Uphill Battle]

we've seen the scriptures that you use 400 times, Ches. Try and talk without being so deliberatly obtuse about it!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by chestertonrules

How is unity in the fullness of truth possible outside the Catholic Church?
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But most of use here do not see your denomination as THE CHURCH!!! Why are you so thick skinned about that.

 

[simonthezealot]

Check this out: from here

The Council of Florence, the 17th Ecumenical (and hence "infallible") Council of the Roman Catholic Church, said the following:
It firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart "into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.

 

[chestertonrules]

we've seen the scriptures that you use 400 times, Ches. Try and talk without being so deliberatly obtuse about it!

Feel free to discuss the scripture I posted, but I haven't addressed any of these posts to you.

If it is appropriate to respond with certain scriptures I'm not going to leave them out just because they make you uncomfortable or annoyed.

 

[chestertonrules]

You can all join my church.

Anyway, unity has never been achieved INSIDE the Catholic Church, so the question doesn't make sense. In fact, the Catholic Church has been the leading force in history for dividing Christians. First it kissed off the Eastern churches, then drove the early Reformers out of the church when they did not want two different churches, then schismed from the Church of England, and more recently virtually forced the Old Catholics to start independent churches. That's a record of wanting disunity, not the opposite.

You have got to be kidding.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Feel free to discuss the scripture I posted, but I haven't addressed any of these posts to you.

If it is appropriate to respond with certain scriptures I'm not going to leave them out just because they make you uncomfortable or annoyed.

Well since you insist on using Scriptures like that, then allow me to use mine.

2 Corin 6:17 wherefore come-forth out of midst of them! and be being separated! is saying Lord

Textus Rec.) 2 Corinthians 6:17 dio exelqete ek mesou autwn kai aforisqhte legei kurioV.................

Revelation 18:4 And I hear another voice out of the heaven saying "come forth! out of Her the People of Me.............
Textus Rec.) Revelation 18:4 kai hkousa allhn fwnhn ek tou ouranou legousan exelqete ex authV o laoV mou...........

 

[Albion]

My belief is that reconciliation is only possible within the Catholic Church.

That is what I am promoting as the surest path to Christian unity.

I understand that many disagree.

As I said...you can believe whatever you want. Mostly we've been correcting errors of fact you've posted such as the definition of Christ's church, but you can believe whatever you will.

However, this is a discussion about the prospects and possibilities of Christian reunion. Being here only to preach to us your belief in your own denomination isn't the purpose of the forum or the thread.

 

[chestertonrules]

But most of use here do not see your denomination as THE CHURCH!!! Why are you so thick skinned about that.

Then what is THE CHURCH?

(Staff Edit)

 

[chestertonrules]

Mostly we've been correcting errors of factquote]

That is not true, as you know. Why post something so obviously false?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Then what is THE CHURCH?

(Staff Edit)

I am told here to come of that Church

2 Corin 6:17 wherefore come-forth out of midst of them! and be being separated! is saying Lord

Textus Rec.) 2 Corinthians 6:17 dio exelqete ek mesou autwn kai aforisqhte legei kurioV.................

Revelation 18:4 And I hear another voice out of the heaven saying "come forth! out of Her the People of Me.............

Textus Rec.) Revelation 18:4 kai hkousa allhn fwnhn ek tou ouranou legousan exelqete ex authV o laoV mou...........