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God will only inform Mark he is going to chose Cheerios if that is what Mark is going to chose. In answer to your question yes God can tell Mark he is going to chose Cheerios but only if that is what Mark is going to chose.
I don't think God will tell us what we are going to do. That was in the hypothetical dreamed up.Elman, why do you think God will tell Mark what he is going to choose. I would like to explore what scripture suggest that.
The Bible does say Pharoah hardened his own heart. No spin gets you out of that fact. Why are you unable to understand that knowing I am going to do something does not mean you made me do it? If you believe God is all powerful, why do you believe God is unable to give us the ability to love others? If we are unable to love others, what is the point of our existence? To simply be progamed robots that act out our pograming? I don't think so. What promise do you think God made that cannot be fulfiled if you and I are able to love others? If you are not going to believe in an evil God, then you should not believe God created some people that had no choice and then God punishes them forever for being what God created them to be. That is evil.
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I think that really simplifies the problem. The question you are asking is very deep and how time works is hard to imagine.
So your problem is that God knows the future, so what if God tells someone their future and then that that person wishes to make a different choice....what happens then?
The Bible also says Pharaoh hardened his own heart. Are you going to pick and choose which verses you like and which to ignore?=GrayAngel;58066839]You're still evading. The Bible says that the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart. Do you have a decent explanation for this, or are you going to pick and choose which verses you like and which to ignore?
Peter chose to deny Jesus. If Peter had chosen to not deny Jesus, God would not have told him he was going to deny Jesus. The point I was makeing was God will always be correct. God telling you something does not mean you do not have a choice. Peter had a choice.God's predictions aren't made so we could change them, because we have no power to change destiny. But He informs us so He could amaze us with who He is. It is comforting being under such a powerful god.
Instead of asking "what if" how about "what did"? God has told people the future many times in the past, and it has ALWAYS come true. Such as when God informed Peter that he would deny knowing him. Peter claimed that it would never happen, because he loved Jesus too much. But it still happened, exactly as Jesus predicted.
God's predictions aren't made so we could change them, because we have no power to change destiny. But He informs us so He could amaze us with who He is. It is comforting being under such a powerful god.
Let's follow a timeline:No it means you are wrong to think God would not know Pete was actually going to chose B. God would never tell Pete he was going to chose A if Pete was going to chose B. Your last question is illogical. God would not know something wrong if God is infallible.
That raises the question of why God never informs us of what we will choose to do in the future. If God will only inform us of such future choices if we are to actually end up making those choices, then either God doesn't know what we will do in the future or we can freely choose between A or B.God will only inform Mark he is going to chose Cheerios if that is what Mark is going to chose. In answer to your question yes God can tell Mark he is going to chose Cheerios but only if that is what Mark is going to chose.
This thread isn't about whether or not God would choose to tell Mark prior to his A/B choice what he'll choose. It's about what would happen if he did tell Mark and Mark freely chose something different than what he was told.Elman, why do you think God will tell Mark what he is going to choose. I would like to explore what scripture suggest that.
By that logic, it means one of the following must be true:No it means you are wrong to think God would not know Pete was actually going to chose B. God would never tell Pete he was going to chose A if Pete was going to chose B. Your last question is illogical. God would not know something wrong if God is infallible.
We're eleven pages into this and the only conclusion we've come to is that one of the following three presuppositions I made cannot be true:I think that really simplifies the problem. The question you are asking is very deep and how time works is hard to imagine.
So your problem is that God knows the future, so what if God tells someone their future and then that that person wishes to make a different choice....what happens then?
I'll use this example for God and.... lets call him Bob. I think the problem is that you assume that God has a very simple knowledge of the future. By this I mean that your stories only allows God knowledge of the event in question and not the events that lead up to it. God doesn't just know that Bob eats Wheaties on Friday, but also whether this decision is based on Him (God) telling Bob that he (Bob) will eat them prior to the event. So what God knows will happen is the future that happens because He tells Bob.
So the next problem is that if God tells Bob he will eat X and so Bob chooses Y, it makes Gods statement wrong. If God therefore (knowing Bob will change his mind) says Bob will eat Y, this may make Bob change his mind to X (which he was going to eat anyway).
So one answer might be that some times God CAN'T always tell us what WILL happen, even though He knows. This doesn't mean God doesn't exist, it could just be how Reality works. So the answer is that maybe God can't tell Bob what he will eat on Friday.
To be honest it is a very hard question to properly imagine, let alone answer. For example God knows the future and tells (or doesn't tell) Bob all in one instant reality and any 'change' God or Bob takes are in fact never changes. Many this is a paradox just like the rock paradox and you just have to say that God doesn't do illogical things. God doesn't tell people things that they change their minds about (unless it is to influence their decision perhaps), just like God never tries to make a rock He can't move.
This thread isn't about whether or not God would choose to tell Mark prior to his A/B choice what he'll choose. It's about what would happen if he did tell Mark and Mark freely chose something different than what he was told.
BTW, if God is all-powerful, he can make a stone so big that he cannot lift it. It's called removing his ability to do anything. If he can do anything, then he could relieve himself of the power to do anything. The sequence goes like this:
1) An omnipotent God who can do anything creates a ten ton stone
2) This omnipotent God removes his ability to do anything
3) This less than omnipotent God (perhaps he is no longer a God because he's no longer fully omnipotent) is incapable of moving the stone, as it is too heavy.
BTW, if God is all-powerful, he can make a stone so big that he cannot lift it. It's called removing his ability to do anything. If he can do anything, then he could relieve himself of the power to do anything. The sequence goes like this:
1) An omnipotent God who can do anything creates a ten ton stone
2) This omnipotent God removes his ability to do anything
3) This less than omnipotent God (perhaps he is no longer a God because he's no longer fully omnipotent) is incapable of moving the stone, as it is too heavy.
If it did happen, then what would happen to God's foreknowledge? If God is all-knowing & all-powerful and Pete can freely choose between A or B, then it theoretically could happen. Therefore, there must be a theoretical answer as to what would happen if God did tell Pete what his A/B choice will be.The problem with that argument is, that it won't happen.This thread isn't about whether or not God would choose to tell Mark prior to his A/B choice what he'll choose. It's about what would happen if he did tell Mark and Mark freely chose something different than what he was told.
We're eleven pages into this and the only conclusion we've come to is that one of the following three presuppositions I made cannot be true:
1) God does not know everything
2) God can not do anything
3) Pete can not make a free choice between A or B in which the potential of him choosing the one he ends up not choosing still exists up until the time he makes the choice.
If it did happen, then what would happen to God's foreknowledge? If God is all-knowing & all-powerful and Pete can freely choose between A or B, then it theoretically could happen. Therefore, there must be a theoretical answer as to what would happen if God did tell Pete what his A/B choice will be.
Remember, as this is a paradox, one of the following must be true:
1) God does not know everything
2) God can not do anything
3) Pete can not make a free choice between A or B in which the potential of him choosing the one he ends up not choosing still exists up until the time he makes the choice.
Which is it?
Remember, as this is a paradox...
Why are you avoiding the question? If you maintain each of the above is true, then you should be able to provide at minimum an educated guess to the following question:We have not come to that conclusion, you may have. I contend the following is true:
- God knows everything.
- God has all power and might to do anything that He wills to do that is within His nature. (for example God cannot lie)
- Pete can make a free choice between A or B
We're eleven pages into this and the only conclusion we've come to is that one of the following three presuppositions I made cannot be true:
1) God does not know everything
2) God can not do anything
3) Pete can not make a free choice between A or B in which the potential of him choosing the one he ends up not choosing still exists up until the time he makes the choice.
BTW, if God is all-powerful, he can make a stone so big that he cannot lift it. It's called removing his ability to do anything. If he can do anything, then he could relieve himself of the power to do anything. The sequence goes like this:
1) An omnipotent God who can do anything creates a ten ton stone
2) This omnipotent God removes his ability to do anything
3) This less than omnipotent God (perhaps he is no longer a God because he's no longer fully omnipotent) is incapable of moving the stone, as it is too heavy.
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