How Can Molecules Think?

[Hans Blaster]

A belief is a strongly-held intellectual position that is embraced by someone who didn't necessarily consider all (or most) of the facts before adopting it. The reasons for having a belief may be good or bad, sensible or silly, but it's rarely the case that they'll consider abandoning it. Beliefs are supposed to accurately reflect some aspect of reality, but quite often they don't. In order to have a belief in the first place requires a certain amount of intelligence and self-awareness.

Every being I know of that has "beliefs" if this kind are animals, specifically vertebrate, quadraped, mammal, primate, ape-types.

Just a friendly discussion amongst us animals.

 

[Yaaten]

Exactly what amount of intelligence does a belief require? For example, can my dog believe that if he whines at the back door I'll eventually let him out to do his thing.

So I'm curious, what constitutes a belief, and what lack of intelligence prevents animals from engaging in it?

Have you noticed how people who are intellectually handicapped never get into arguments about politics (or anything else for that matter)?
Regarding your question about "the exact amount", and to put a number to it, I'd say that a person would require an IQ of at least 80.
I already told you what I consider a belief to be, in the comment just above yours.

 

[partinobodycular]

Regarding your question about "the exact amount", and to put a number to it, I'd say that a person would require an IQ of at least 80.
I already told you what I consider a belief to be, in the comment just above yours.

Specifically:

A belief is a strongly-held intellectual position that is embraced by someone who didn't necessarily consider all (or most) of the facts before adopting it. The reasons for having a belief may be good or bad, sensible or silly, but it's rarely the case that they'll consider abandoning it. Beliefs are supposed to accurately reflect some aspect of reality, but quite often they don't. In order to have a belief in the first place requires a certain amount of intelligence and self-awareness.

There might be a couple of points that I could quibble with, but per your definition I see no logical reason to think that animals can't hold to beliefs. My dog has intelligence. It can connect a cause to an effect. And commensurate with that intelligence comes the capacity to form beliefs.

So would you agree, animals can have beliefs?

 

[Yaaten]

Every being I know of that has "beliefs" if this kind are animals, specifically vertebrate, quadraped, mammal, primate, ape-types.

No, they don't actually.

 

[Yaaten]

So would you agree, animals can have beliefs?

No.

 

[Astrid]

When you've done that m in itastering, let us know.

As if anyone ever will.

 

[Astrid]

No.

" Belief" being subject to your definition?

 

[Astrid]

I began with "I" "believe". I guess I need to state that with every sentence now?

No, just don't make up "facts". I find that an easy rule to
follow. Try it.

 

[Astrid]

Humans are superior to animals.

A belief is a strongly-held intellectual position that is embraced by someone who didn't necessarily consider all (or most) of the facts before adopting it. The reasons for having a belief may be good or bad, sensible or silly, but it's rarely the case that they'll consider abandoning it. Beliefs are supposed to accurately reflect some aspect of reality, but quite often they don't. In order to have a belief in the first place requires a certain amount of intelligence and self-awareness.
Do animals have any of the above? No. Since that is clearly the case, they cannot be said to hold beliefs. They have instincts, and have the potential to learn, but that's about it for even the cleverest of them.

People ARE animals.
You are denying that?

 

[Hans Blaster]

No, they don't actually.

What are you then if not animal? Vegetable? Mineral?

 

[partinobodycular]

No.

Okay. That conclusion wouldn't seem to follow from your definition, but if that's what you believe then it would seem to illustrate one thing:

The reasons for having a belief may be good or bad, sensible or silly

 

[Kylie]

And who authored said commandments in the first place in His own handwriting?

According to Christian tradition, Moses got them from God.

But tradition doesn't equal fact.

 

[AV1611VET]

But tradition doesn't equal fact.

Moses getting the Ten Commandments directly from God is Christian tradition, is it?

Okay ... if so ... did Jesus believe it to be tradition?

 

[Kylie]

Moses getting the Ten Commandments directly from God is Christian tradition, is it?

Okay ... if so ... did Jesus believe it to be tradition?

Utterly irrelevant.

Lots of religions have things they believe that you discount that have the same level of evidence that you have. If the logic is valid for your argument, it must be valid for those arguments you disagree with.

 

[AV1611VET]

Utterly irrelevant.

Lots of religions have things they believe that you discount that have the same level of evidence that you have. If the logic is valid for your argument, it must be valid for those arguments you disagree with.

 

[Yaaten]

" Belief" being subject to your definition?

If you disagree with the definition, then provide a better one.

 

[Yaaten]

People ARE animals.
You are denying that?

Yes, I'm denying it.

 

[Yaaten]

What are you then if not animal? Vegetable? Mineral?

Human, a man. We are above nature, superior to all other life. That's just a fact.

 

[SelfSim]

Human, a man. We are above nature, superior to all other life. That's just a fact.

I personally believe that regular showers (or bathing) is what distinguishes us from 'the beasts' ..

 

[partinobodycular]

Human, a man. We are above nature, superior to all other life. That's just a fact.

You've only been here five days and already the facade of supporting your position with logic and reason has been replaced with AV1611VET's go to argument..."because the bible says so".

That's just sad.