I grew up in a christian home and throughout all my life I have tried to get saved a whole lot of times but it has never happened. I always go back to the way I was before. I recently heard about all this predestination jive and as much as it really ticks me off cause it makes people robots and I can't understand how a loving God would do that and some other problems I have with it, it none the less seems to be very biblically accurate from all the scripture that i've read about it. My predicament then is this, I really want to be a christian and not go to hell and have all that peace and stuff but i can't seem to do it. I don't feel the need to repent or wallow in my sinfullness and I don't have any desire to worship of praise god so I am deathly afraid that this means that i'm not one of the elect or that i'm going one of the objects prepared for destruction the bible talks about. I'd rather not have that happen but all this sovereignty of god talk pretty much says that i have no say in the matter so I feel like i'm really screwed.
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
How can i tell if I am "predestined"
- Thread starter Hungry
- Start date
Gabriel
I Once Was Lost, But Now Am Found
- Oct 10, 2002
- 2,923
- 107
- 55
- Faith
- Calvinist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
What is it that you are agonizing over? Is it your fear of hell or are you angry over your lack of zeal?
The fact that you have an issue with this and that you believe in God leads me to believe that He is calling you. That He is working in your heart. You are seeking Him and according to the book of Romans, only His children seek Him. The fact that you continue to sin doesn't exclude you from salvation. We all sin every day. People sin, it's our nature. The man who says he is without sin is a liar.
I would ask you to examine yourself and your motives. Do you want to be saved to avoid the consequence of hell or do you want to be saved because you know Christ died for you and you appreciate that love and sacrifice? Do you want to be a part of the family of God out of love for Him or out of the need to save your own self? If you are trully seeking God out of love for Him, not out of love for yourself, it is because you are being called. You seem to believe in your head, but your heart is unsure.
Pray, read the book of John. Meditate on the sacrifice that was laid out for you. Ask God to humble you. Ask God to help you come to the end of yourself. Ask God to help you seek Him for His sake, not for yours.
The fact that you have an issue with this and that you believe in God leads me to believe that He is calling you. That He is working in your heart. You are seeking Him and according to the book of Romans, only His children seek Him. The fact that you continue to sin doesn't exclude you from salvation. We all sin every day. People sin, it's our nature. The man who says he is without sin is a liar.
I would ask you to examine yourself and your motives. Do you want to be saved to avoid the consequence of hell or do you want to be saved because you know Christ died for you and you appreciate that love and sacrifice? Do you want to be a part of the family of God out of love for Him or out of the need to save your own self? If you are trully seeking God out of love for Him, not out of love for yourself, it is because you are being called. You seem to believe in your head, but your heart is unsure.
Pray, read the book of John. Meditate on the sacrifice that was laid out for you. Ask God to humble you. Ask God to help you come to the end of yourself. Ask God to help you seek Him for His sake, not for yours.
Upvote
0
Reformationist
Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
- Mar 7, 2002
- 14,273
- 465
- 52
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
Hungry said:
I'm confused. How do you know that you aren't saved?
Continuing to sin is not a sign of a lack of salvation. All Christians continue to sin. I'm not condoning it but it's a fact of our fallen nature. That's why we are commanded to "put off" the old man and "put on" the new man. The "old man" is our old habitually sinful lifestyle. We are commanded to "put on" the godly traits that the Lord has given us. We are no longer spiritually in bondage to our fallen nature but we continue to sin because a part of us, albeit a dead, conquered part, still desires to sin. Being sanctified is a process that takes our whole lives. That's not a license to sit around and not strive to put on the things of God. It's just an encouragement that sinning is something that no longer carries the penalty of death. When you sin, apologize to whoever your sinfulness affected, ask God for forgiveness and help in overcoming, and then seek to apply that to your life.
Hungry, God's sovereign predestination of His own creation does not make people robots. We were created with a will. We were created with the faculty of reason and the ability to make decisions. When man, in Adam, disobeyed God and fell from grace we still retained the ability to will and act. What was corrupted was our desires. Man must always choose according to his greatest desire or inclination at the moment. God does not coerce or force man to sin. Fallen man naturally desires to rebel against God and so he freely chooses to sin. Make no mistake, his choice is determined. It's just determined by his own will. What changes our desires is the sovereign efficacy of the grace of God. He changes our desires. He imbues us with new, God oriented desires and, by His grace, we seek to do His Will.
Whoever told you that the Christian life was peaceful? The world condemns Christians. We struggle our entire lives to become more godly and love God and keep His commandments. Sure, we have the peace of knowing that our Lord and Savior has saved us from His wrath but if you want to see a peaceful person, find an athiest who could care less about being godly, who looks to himself as the final authority, completely autonomous. They have the peace of feeling like they answer to no one. Being a disciple of God is definitely the most wonderful thing that has ever happened to me but peaceful it ain't.
Hungry, regenerate (saved) people often have a hard time with being led by their "feelings." We "feel" led. We don't "feel" led. All Christians, and I mean every single one of them, struggle, in various ways, with staying the path and staying dedicated to God. That doesn't mean that we don't want to be Christians sometimes. It just means that the laziness and apathy of our inherent fallenness affects all people. I wouldn't take that to mean that you're are not "one of the elect."
Let me ask you something. Do you desire to be a Christian because you see God's Word as the Truth and you desire to please Him or are you just afraid of going to hell. Please understand that these are not mutually exclusive. I am saved and I most certainly do not want to go to hell, but I also desire to serve my King and keep His commandments.
God bless
Upvote
0
I just don't want to go to hell. I don't love god like it seems i should. I don't even know what it means to love god. I know of some verses where it says to love god is to follow his commandments but that really seems to contradict the whole "not by works but by faith" aspect or christianity. Basically my dilema is this, i don't love god nor do i want to make him the lord of my life but i desperately want to want those things. It's the realization that i only want to be saved out of what I guess would be considered selfish ambition, which the bible says not to do anything out of, makes me this that I'm not one of the elect or whatever. I don't know how to do anything out of selfish ambition. Maybe that's part of my fallen nature i guess. thanks for taking the time to help me out gabriel and reformationist.
Upvote
0
Reformationist
Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
- Mar 7, 2002
- 14,273
- 465
- 52
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
Hungry said:
Hungry, please understand that there's a huge difference between being one of the elect of God and being regenerate. There are elect people whom God has not yet regenerated. You may be in that group. I pray that God gives you a desire to make Him Lord of your life.
God bless
Upvote
0
Arc
Lover of the Truth
- Jun 29, 2003
- 294
- 10
- 52
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
The fact that you know you are a sinner is a good sign. It is also a good sign that you "fear God" as far as judgement goes. God does have his Elect, but that does not negate the responsibility of man. I'm not going to debate it here, but there are those who believe that if you believe in God's promise, you are saved Belief being an action on your part, accepting God's free gift of Grace.
Works are definatley a part of it. Good works show your inward faith in God. You don't do good works in hope of salvation, you do them because of it. So it's only logical that your desire is not to do good, since you are unsure on the inside. God is the only truth. Everything on this cursed earth is corrupt. Once I realized that, I could see God clearly and believe in Him, because He is the only thing that is Faithful and True. I too grew up in a christian household and it took many years to trust God. To stop putting my faith in this physical earth and put it in the only one that can save us. I think I was just too scared all those years to be honest with myself. I can now, look at the world and see the corruption and evil in it clearly. Not that we look at the people, the sinners that way, but the sin itself. Since we are all sinners.
I believe the Lord has guided my steps, even in my years of unfaithfulness to Him, until I finally saw the truth. I feel God is doing the same thing to you. I pray that the Lord continue to guide your way.
Please try and read (if you haven't already) the Bible. I started in the New Testament and then went to the Old. Try to get a good understanding of what is going on in the Bible before you think you might "give up". There were many things I was unaware of until I began to actually read it. No matter how much you talk to others about it, you just never absorb "the big picture" until you read it. It opened my eyes.
May God bless you.
Works are definatley a part of it. Good works show your inward faith in God. You don't do good works in hope of salvation, you do them because of it. So it's only logical that your desire is not to do good, since you are unsure on the inside. God is the only truth. Everything on this cursed earth is corrupt. Once I realized that, I could see God clearly and believe in Him, because He is the only thing that is Faithful and True. I too grew up in a christian household and it took many years to trust God. To stop putting my faith in this physical earth and put it in the only one that can save us. I think I was just too scared all those years to be honest with myself. I can now, look at the world and see the corruption and evil in it clearly. Not that we look at the people, the sinners that way, but the sin itself. Since we are all sinners.
I believe the Lord has guided my steps, even in my years of unfaithfulness to Him, until I finally saw the truth. I feel God is doing the same thing to you. I pray that the Lord continue to guide your way.
Please try and read (if you haven't already) the Bible. I started in the New Testament and then went to the Old. Try to get a good understanding of what is going on in the Bible before you think you might "give up". There were many things I was unaware of until I began to actually read it. No matter how much you talk to others about it, you just never absorb "the big picture" until you read it. It opened my eyes.
May God bless you.
Upvote
0
kimber1
mean people suck
- Feb 25, 2003
- 13,143
- 810
- 54
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- In Relationship
- Politics
- US-Democrat
I am in agreement wiht everyone else here!! While a fear of hell is natural, you must realize that God loves you adn He wants ALL his people to be saved. Some just choose by their own stubborness to disobey and not beleive. He gave us free will. I think the acknowledgement of your sin is saying you're headed in the right direction. And the love you seek will come to you if you keep at it!
Upvote
0
twosid
Well-Known Member
Hungry,
It sounds like you want to be a smorgasbord Christian. I hear you saying, "I'd like to miss hell and I'll take some peace. Gimme some of that healing. Bless my income, protect and guide me. Please leave my wallet alone, and don't mind my lust. I could never be nice to that person Lord. You just don't know them. Forgive WHO? Lord you know that boat I've been wanting I was wondering if you would bless me with that this summer?" I could be wrong but that is what I think I hear. You can become a Christian. You can't live the Christian life. Only by submitting to the Lord Jesus Christ and allowing Him to live it through you can you do it. Being a Christian is the hardest thing you will ever do but it is also the most rewarding. There is nothing alive that is more miserable than a Christian living in rebellion. If you do decide to become one then don't be a smorgasbord Christian because not only will you be miserable but you will confuse the lost by claiming to be a Christian but living like a pagan. I don't believe there is any more powerful tool satan has than an uncommitted Christian. When you come to Jesus give Him all of you. Keep nothing for yourself. Every genuine need you have will be filled but it might not (and probably won't be) filled in the way that you might expect.
1 Timothy 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
The only ones who won't be saved are the ones who refuse to be.
It sounds like you want to be a smorgasbord Christian. I hear you saying, "I'd like to miss hell and I'll take some peace. Gimme some of that healing. Bless my income, protect and guide me. Please leave my wallet alone, and don't mind my lust. I could never be nice to that person Lord. You just don't know them. Forgive WHO? Lord you know that boat I've been wanting I was wondering if you would bless me with that this summer?" I could be wrong but that is what I think I hear. You can become a Christian. You can't live the Christian life. Only by submitting to the Lord Jesus Christ and allowing Him to live it through you can you do it. Being a Christian is the hardest thing you will ever do but it is also the most rewarding. There is nothing alive that is more miserable than a Christian living in rebellion. If you do decide to become one then don't be a smorgasbord Christian because not only will you be miserable but you will confuse the lost by claiming to be a Christian but living like a pagan. I don't believe there is any more powerful tool satan has than an uncommitted Christian. When you come to Jesus give Him all of you. Keep nothing for yourself. Every genuine need you have will be filled but it might not (and probably won't be) filled in the way that you might expect.
1 Timothy 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
The only ones who won't be saved are the ones who refuse to be.
Upvote
0
papakapp
a waterdrop going over niagra falls
Hungry said:
Martin Luther had the exact same questions as you while he was a monk, before he tacked his nasty little letter in the Whittenberg Door and God caused a revival.
You are light years ahead of people who think they can get to Jesus on their terms. I would suggest reading Revelation 3 where the church of Laeodecia is addressed. Read it daily. Read it over and over. Maybe even memorize it. Every time you read it, pray. Pray whatever is on your heart, be honest, don't bother with religous platitudes, and don't bother praying a certain form, just talk to God from the bottom of your heart. Also, find somone who you really respect for their sincerity to God. Latch on to them and just meet and talk about whatever. If you were raised in a church, then you are propably pretty skilled at putting up a front. Throw that front away. Say whatever is really on your heart even if it will shock. God won't leave you an orphan, He said so. But, God won't force you to trust Him either. You have to want it and the only way I know to want it is to come to the end of your rope and then have nothing left to cling to except God.
Upvote
0
Rafael
Only time enough for love
Being honest with yourself, like you are, is pretty uncommon and may be a sign that you are "predestined". I think I came to the Lord in a similar way, just telling Him the truth - that I didn't really know what love was or how to have it. Now that is the truth, and it isn't an easy thing to have the kind of love that God has:
I JOHN 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children let us not love in words or tongue but with ACTIONS and truth.
We are raised up to only get and want more when true love is giving. It isn't easy to give your life away and that is why He gives us help and forgiveness.
You spoke of faith and works. There is only one work that saves us, and that is the work that Jesus did on the cross, but anyone that is saved will also start to do works. It is like to not put the cart before the horse, in that the works do not save a person - the works follow after a person is saved by the work of Christ.
If you are hearing the call of God, seek Him and you will find Him. Keep knocking and look for Him to return soon.
I JOHN 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children let us not love in words or tongue but with ACTIONS and truth.
We are raised up to only get and want more when true love is giving. It isn't easy to give your life away and that is why He gives us help and forgiveness.
You spoke of faith and works. There is only one work that saves us, and that is the work that Jesus did on the cross, but anyone that is saved will also start to do works. It is like to not put the cart before the horse, in that the works do not save a person - the works follow after a person is saved by the work of Christ.
If you are hearing the call of God, seek Him and you will find Him. Keep knocking and look for Him to return soon.
Upvote
0
God, please show Hungry what You are like, and what to do, what is true and right. Please help her go to YOu with her questions & everything and help her totally trust You. In Jesus' mighty name. Amen
well I am totally not sure about the if you're not elected you got no chance-stuff, maybe read John 3 and ask God to show You what's right....... there's lots of other verses, I am wondering about some stuff aswell, but yeah there's a verse saying God wants everybody to be saved. Or: in Matthew 7/7 onward:
*translates* (thats not completely word-by-word. but check yourself)
ask God and He'll give you! Seek and you will find! Knock and the door will be opened for you! Cause who asks will be given. And who seeks will find. And who knocks will be opened. If a kid asks his father for a piece of bread, will he give them a stone ? If they ask for a fish, will he give them a snake ? If even you hard-hearted men give good things to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who'll ask Him !
(treat ppl like you wanna be treated by them yourself. That is- shortly summed up- the content of the whole uhh.... holy scripture)
oh yeah going with God might not be the 'easy' way at all.... but read Matthew 11/28 His burden is light, not unbearable, and yeah, he gives us peace. I'm confused at the moment and feel under pressure sometimes/often, dunno if that is God, but this is a cool.. uh reminder/promise to me
plus I believe He helps me. Yeah I can see your point, whoever said a non-caring Atheist'd have more peace.............. I think going God's way is rocking this life w/ Him, plus I wanna love Him and go through hard stuff rather than not loving Him, ....though I gotta admit I often didn't :/ but believe He forgives when I repent & ask Him =)
well I am totally not sure about the if you're not elected you got no chance-stuff, maybe read John 3 and ask God to show You what's right....... there's lots of other verses, I am wondering about some stuff aswell, but yeah there's a verse saying God wants everybody to be saved. Or: in Matthew 7/7 onward:
*translates* (thats not completely word-by-word. but check yourself
)ask God and He'll give you! Seek and you will find! Knock and the door will be opened for you! Cause who asks will be given. And who seeks will find. And who knocks will be opened. If a kid asks his father for a piece of bread, will he give them a stone ? If they ask for a fish, will he give them a snake ? If even you hard-hearted men give good things to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who'll ask Him !
(treat ppl like you wanna be treated by them yourself. That is- shortly summed up- the content of the whole uhh.... holy scripture)
oh yeah going with God might not be the 'easy' way at all.... but read Matthew 11/28 His burden is light, not unbearable, and yeah, he gives us peace. I'm confused at the moment and feel under pressure sometimes/often, dunno if that is God, but this is a cool.. uh reminder/promise to me
plus I believe He helps me. Yeah I can see your point, whoever said a non-caring Atheist'd have more peace.............. I think going God's way is rocking this life w/ Him, plus I wanna love Him and go through hard stuff rather than not loving Him, ....though I gotta admit I often didn't :/ but believe He forgives when I repent & ask Him =)
Upvote
0
Similar threads
