How can I help?

[Rochir]

Rochir, what is your interest in this thread? Fellowship?

drstevej, Cheri67, Father Rick , IamRedeemed, Jim47 , Rochir

I'm watching to determine the best way to bend your forum totally out of shape and make it a liberal cesspool!

 

[free2be]

AH, I see...it's just going to be the same-old same-old. I am correct - the attitude of this forum is "we are right, everyone else is wrong, screw them". You guys get all bent out of shape over people that have ties to WWMC and you get all bent out of shape thinking that the liberals are here to take over. (Trust me guys, the liberals don't want this forum)

I refuse to be a part of that. As I stated not too long ago, I'm sure that many of my liberal Christian friends will be standing with me at the pearly gates. I can't possess the hate for them that you guys seem to.

Unsubscribing now. This forum doesn't want help.

That hurts, PW. And I don't agree. I don't believe everyone in this forum does believe "we're right, everyone else is wrong" and certainly not "screw them". I can speak for myself as a conservative Christian that I have NO hate for anyone, most especially, fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, no matter their "type" of Christianity.

 

[IamRedeemed]

That is a false charge, but you are entitled to your opinion. And "disagreed" with us is quite
an understatement. I would say militantly opposed and for the wrong reasons.
Both of those individuals appear to believe that we can be equally yoked
with those who oppose God's standard for Christian living.
That just is not possible.

There is a good reason to hate relativism.
It undermines the authority of the Lord in a Christian's life.

It doesn't mean we hate anyone.
Is it not possible to hate what they teach and not hate them?

Apparently we do not believe as you do, that they can't be separated.

Nadiine, what I've seen here isn't an influx of liberals, it's an influx of people who have differing opinions on things and are being attacked for it.

You personally accused two people of being liberal, when one had been a member here longer than you and the other was conservative. You only called them liberal because they disagreed with you.

There is so much hatred for the liberal side of things here...it's palpable. THAT is why I rescinded my membership. The hate needs to go, NOW. Your post alone makes several negative references to WWMC - why the need for that? I understand that everyone must agree with the stickies to be a member, but not everyone must agree with stickies to post.

As Jim pointed out, the way the rules are now, no non-member is allowed to post a dissenting opinion in the threads. As he also pointed out, in our forum, people are allowed to do this respectfully - we've allowed good spirited debate and let me tell you, our forum certainly isn't imploding the way this one is.

I guess the truth of the matter is that if there is a group of conservatives here who ONLY wish to converse with other conservatives and not allow anyone else to join, then perhaps they need to start their own website and restrict their membership and not even allow non-conservatives to join.

Not all bad things in this world come from liberalism. And liberals aren't to blame for this forum's implosion.

 

[drstevej]

I wsied I had more time to post here, but I don't, Staff stuff keeps me pretty busy, but I am concerned for the heath of this forum. It seems we go a few days or so with hardly a report and then it all breaks out into an uproar

What is the cause?

How can I or any staff help?


All this fighting isn't good for anyone. Is it possible that we are so legalistic in our rules that we are making ourselves miserable in trying to protect our turf?

Is CC an outreach forum or a fellowship forum? Why do you call members of this forum legalists and defend those who reject our views?



note your response to me:

I think you will find that I posted in the origional report so I am quite aware of it. I think your other comments are quite rude and show real prejudice.

Unlike many I am not afraid to have discussions with and Christians whether they be liberal or conservative and I am really tired of all the legalism, in threads and in reports.

Christ set us free from the law, and when did He ever shy away from talking to sinners? He even sought out the Pharisees to correct them, but they rejected Him thru legalism of their own.

I use 4U as a means to reach out to everyone, not just a selected few. We are all sinners in need of God's grace, and if we use this forum correctly we can reach out to those who error.

Does that answer your question?

In short, I love everyone and want to share Christ's love with them.

 

[Father Rick]

The Liberals are coming! The Liberals are coming!... (or was that the Redcoats?!?!?)

Personally, I find all the fuss about "the liberals" amusing.

First, terms such as "liberal" and "conservative" are highly subjective. Quite frankly, the Eastern Orthodox would consider almost every poster here "liberal". Many Catholics would consider almost every poster here "liberal". Personally, the RC's would consider me "very liberal" because of 3 things-- 1) OC sacraments (such as communion) are open to all baptized Christians, 2) we recognize the ordination of women, and 3) we consider birth control a matter of conscience. Now... none of those 3 things are even mentioned in the wiki for CCC... but for the majority of the Christians believing ANY of those 3 makes one "liberal". (as I said, that would make almost every poster here 'liberal').

Now, I understand how the term "Conservative" is being used by CCC... since it is defined in the wiki. And, the way in which the term is defined definitely applies to me...

But I also know that nowhere does scripture say anything even close to "by this all men will know you're my disciples, by the fact that you're conservative".

Nor does it say "by this all men will know that you're my disciples, by your correct theology".

Rather, it does say "by this all men will know that you're my disciples, by the love you have one for another."


When I see people making statements to the gist of "well, we can't get along with you because you're liberal and we're conservative"... well, that greatly concerns me. Those who are "liberal" (by whoever's definition you choose to use at the moment) who have accepted Christ are still our brothers and sisters in Christ-- even if we sharply disagree with their theology.

And if we can't love them, in spite of our differences, then I would daresay we are NOT "conservative" at all-- since Christ said that our love for them would be the demonstration that we are disciples... in fact, I would say an inability to show love for them is a demonstration of a serious deficit in our own Christian walk.

I'm sure some would say, "Well... we love them by 'setting them straight'. It's tough love". I do agree that we should present correct doctrine, and seek to show brothers and sisters in Christ areas where we may feel they are in doctrinal error. But in the process of doing so, we also must be humble enough to realize that we're not perfect either-- nor is our theology perfect-- so they may actually have some things "right" that we can learn from. And if we are doing so in love, then what is seen will fit the scriptural pattern of what love looks like:

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

In fact, the scripture here is so blunt as to say that if we're not acting like this, that we are nothing more than a bunch of loud annoying noise (a resounding gong or clanging cymbal).

So... when our actions/attitudes towards those who disagree with us are rude or easily angered... then those are not from Christ. When our attitude is one of suspicion, rather than trust... that is not from Christ. When our attitude is one that "keeps record of wrongs" (in other words... "I know what you're really like")... then that is not from Christ.

We all make mistakes. None of us are perfect in our walk with Christ (liberal, conservative, or any other label you want to stick on someone). We are all part of ONE Body... and scripture is quite clear that "the hand cannot say to the eye, I have no need for you". Believe it or not, as much as we may disagree with some of the theology of those we label as "liberal"-- we actually NEED them, according to scripture (and they NEED us).

 

[drstevej]

Sigh, we lose another great mod here.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Posts like this aren't helpful. Can you try to answer our posts and the things we actually
said instead of answering your own presuppositions of where we are coming from?

And this is not a "denominational" issue, so it really doesn't matter what other
sects withing your own denomination think regarding religious practices and
traditions. That is irrelevant to what is being discussed here.

This forum is not segregated by denominational beliefs and traditions.
This forum is a unification of those who have conservative views on morals and values.

Those conservative views of morals and values have been determined by
God and not man therefore are not relative but absolute.

The Liberals are coming! The Liberals are coming!... (or was that the Redcoats?!?!?)

Personally, I find all the fuss about "the liberals" amusing.

First, terms such as "liberal" and "conservative" are highly subjective. Quite frankly, the Eastern Orthodox would consider almost every poster here "liberal". Many Catholics would consider almost every poster here "liberal". Personally, the RC's would consider me "very liberal" because of 3 things-- 1) OC sacraments (such as communion) are open to all baptized Christians, 2) we recognize the ordination of women, and 3) we consider birth control a matter of conscience. Now... none of those 3 things are even mentioned in the wiki for CCC... but for the majority of the Christians believing ANY of those 3 makes one "liberal". (as I said, that would make almost every poster here 'liberal').

Now, I understand how the term "Conservative" is being used by CCC... since it is defined in the wiki. And, the way in which the term is defined definitely applies to me...

But I also know that nowhere does scripture say anything even close to "by this all men will know you're my disciples, by the fact that you're conservative".

Nor does it say "by this all men will know that you're my disciples, by your correct theology".

Rather, it does say "by this all men will know that you're my disciples, by the love you have one for another."


When I see people making statements to the gist of "well, we can't get along with you because you're liberal and we're conservative"... well, that greatly concerns me. Those who are "liberal" (by whoever's definition you choose to use at the moment) who have accepted Christ are still our brothers and sisters in Christ-- even if we sharply disagree with their theology.

And if we can't love them, in spite of our differences, then I would daresay we are NOT "conservative" at all-- since Christ said that our love for them would be the demonstration that we are disciples... in fact, I would say an inability to show love for them is a demonstration of a serious deficit in our own Christian walk.

I'm sure some would say, "Well... we love them by 'setting them straight'. It's tough love". I do agree that we should present correct doctrine, and seek to show brothers and sisters in Christ areas where we may feel they are in doctrinal error. But in the process of doing so, we also must be humble enough to realize that we're not perfect either-- nor is our theology perfect-- so they may actually have some things "right" that we can learn from. And if we are doing so in love, then what is seen will fit the scriptural pattern of what love looks like:

In fact, the scripture here is so blunt as to say that if we're not acting like this, that we are nothing more than a bunch of loud annoying noise (a resounding gong or clanging cymbal).

So... when our actions/attitudes towards those who disagree with us are rude or easily angered... then those are not from Christ. When our attitude is one of suspicion, rather than trust... that is not from Christ. When our attitude is one that "keeps record of wrongs" (in other words... "I know what you're really like")... then that is not from Christ.

We all make mistakes. None of us are perfect in our walk with Christ (liberal, conservative, or any other label you want to stick on someone). We are all part of ONE Body... and scripture is quite clear that "the hand cannot say to the eye, I have no need for you". Believe it or not, as much as we may disagree with some of the theology of those we label as "liberal"-- we actually NEED them, according to scripture (and they NEED us).

 

[drstevej]

adios.

 

[Nicki4Christ]

adios.

We need you here...please reconsider

 

[drstevej]

No., not with how this is being run. I am not welcome.

 

[PastorDiane]

This Is What I Will Inform All Of You That Keep Up This Division And Fighting.....there Is No Love Or Correction And You Are Willfull In All Of Your Ways......

I Have Many Perishoners That Are On This Sight And As Head Of My Ministry Your Bickering Is Falling Over Into The Church, There Fore From The Pulpit I Have Declared This Site Off Limits To All That I Shepard

 

[IamRedeemed]

It appears you are doing for your sheep exactly what we are trying to
do for ours. Protect them.

Why is this okay for you to separate or set boundaries for your sheep
for their protection, but not okay for us to do for ours?
With all due respect, this appears to be a double standard to me.

This Is What I Will Inform All Of You That Keep Up This Division And Fighting.....there Is No Love Or Correction And You Are Willfull In All Of Your Ways......

I Have Many Perishoners That Are On This Sight And As Head Of My Ministry Your Bickering Is Falling Over Into The Church, There Fore From The Pulpit I Have Declared This Site Off Limits To All That I Shepard

 

[Nadiine]

Nadiine, what I've seen here isn't an influx of liberals, it's an influx of people who have differing opinions on things and are being attacked for it.

You personally accused two people of being liberal, when one had been a member here longer than you and the other was conservative. You only called them liberal because they disagreed with you.

There is so much hatred for the liberal side of things here...it's palpable. THAT is why I rescinded my membership. The hate needs to go, NOW. Your post alone makes several negative references to WWMC - why the need for that? I understand that everyone must agree with the stickies to be a member, but not everyone must agree with stickies to post.

As Jim pointed out, the way the rules are now, no non-member is allowed to post a dissenting opinion in the threads. As he also pointed out, in our forum, people are allowed to do this respectfully - we've allowed good spirited debate and let me tell you, our forum certainly isn't imploding the way this one is.

I guess the truth of the matter is that if there is a group of conservatives here who ONLY wish to converse with other conservatives and not allow anyone else to join, then perhaps they need to start their own website and restrict their membership and not even allow non-conservatives to join.

Not all bad things in this world come from liberalism. And liberals aren't to blame for this forum's implosion.

Do me a favor PW, SHOW ME EXACTLY WHAT I'VE SAID IN ATTACK OF THEM DIRECTLY in my posts in general fellowship OR debate.

Define "attack" and attack of "what"?? Is it the liberal we attack? OR WHAT THEY PREACH?
It's what is preached that goes contrary to scripture.

I have attacked NO ONE for "being a liberal" here and told them they aren't welcome. I DO find alarm for the influx of the activity here from them however - and I'm not the only one here.

If we're going to open up the already liberal rules, then why call this place conservative when it fills up with everybody who believes everything?
It's basically open turf - non denominational - not conservative.

Isn't it misleading to a visitor or new member who strolls in when they're conservative, only to find that everybody's here preaching their own version of Christianity? Liberal? non nicene? whatever else?

This is my point. & Who said it's the RULES that are the definite source to fix anyways? That was an assumption by Jim - it's not that it IS the problem or even needs adjusting.....

 

[Father Rick]

Posts like this aren't helpful. Can you try to answer our posts and the things we actually
said instead of answering your own presuppositions of where we are coming from?

A plea to try to set aside our differences and walk according to the scriptural definition of love isn't helpful?

And this is not a "denominational" issue, so it really doesn't matter what other
sects withing your own denomination think regarding religious practices and
traditions. That is irrelevant to what is being discussed here.

Those things were used as illustrations... that the principle behind the issues is seen across the board, not just here. The same principles apply in a local church, within a denomination, and on a forum.

This forum is not segregated by denominational beliefs and traditions.
This forum is a unification of those who have conservative views on morals and values.

Those conservative views of morals and values have been determined by
God and not man therefore are not relative but absolute.

If what you are saying here were true...

then why is it that half the forum is calling the other half (who hold to the same moral standards) "liberal"?

Or saying that they "can't get along" with those who are liberal?

Part of those "morals and values" taught in scripture is how we treat our brother. In fact, that is half of scripture. Jesus said the two greatest commandents were "Love the Lord your God" and "Love your neighbor as yourself". I agree that being obedient in areas of morals/values are a big part of the way we show that we "love the Lord"... but what about the second half? It doesn't say "love your conservative neighbor as yourself", just "love your neighbor"... which would include those in the neighboring (albeit liberal) forum.

 

[PastorDiane]

I Am Redeemed, You Do Not Read And Think Before You Jump In And Answer, I Have Never Said That You Can Not Have Boundries, I Said That You All Fight And Bicker And You Work Everything Through Division And You Are NOT Correctable, And Just For Your Information, You Do Not Have Sheep You Are Not A Church You Are Nothing But A Share Site, Where You Should Be Discussiong The Word And Hope And Love!!!!!

 

[Nadiine]

It appears you are doing for your sheep exactly what we are trying to
do for ours. Protect them.

Why is this okay for you to separate or set boundaries for your sheep
for their protection, but not okay for us to do for ours?
With all due respect, this appears to be a double standard to me.

Nice point. The difference is, PDiane (+ any staff most likely) decides the rule & direction over her church and sets that for them/over them.
THAT IS WHY THEY CONTINUE THERE. WE ARE SELF GOVERNED AS A LARGE GROUP with differing beliefs within the group and with some who are happy to fellowship and unite with liberalism.

That's the difference here - and that's why this stuff doesn't predominantly happen within churches very often - until it's allowed to have crept in unnoticed to do it's work until it finally manifests.

 

[Lisa0315]

Yep, all sunshine and roses now that I am gone...

Lisa

 

[IamRedeemed]

I read your post at least three times before I posted Diane. I did not "jump in" to answer.
My question is reasonable. And our motives are pure. Posts like yours only add to the
divisive arguments. Storming in here with a "holier than thou" attitude and then proceed
to do, what we are trying to do. I did not attack or presuppose your motives, why do you
attack and presuppose mine? We may not be a church, but I assure you, you are not the only
minister of God here.

I Am Redeemed, You Do Not Read And Think Before You Jump In And Answer, I Have Never Said That You Can Not Have Boundries, I Said That You All Fight And Bicker And You Work Everything Through Division And You Are Correctable, And Just For Your Information, You Do Not Have Sheep You Are Not A Church You Are Nothing But A Share Site, Where You Should Be Discussiong The Word And Hope And Love!!!!!

 

[Nadiine]

I Am Redeemed, You Do Not Read And Think Before You Jump In And Answer, I Have Never Said That You Can Not Have Boundries, I Said That You All Fight And Bicker And You Work Everything Through Division And You Are NOT Correctable, And Just For Your Information, You Do Not Have Sheep You Are Not A Church You Are Nothing But A Share Site, Where You Should Be Discussiong The Word And Hope And Love!!!!!

Again, this is Erwin's idea for SELF governing of large groups of people -
not a church where one person sets a rule that is properly structured. That is why this is happening.

The bickering is mainly becuz 2 sides are ok and not ok with opposing things.
When I sign on and find a new thread made by a new member that's hashing private issues to the world... am I NOT to oppose it openly?
Or do we all sit in silence for fear of "bickering"? What do you do?

 

[PastorDiane]

As I said, large or small group, the body of christ liberal or conservative is commanded to walk in love, we are to be known by love, this is nothing more than a group of people who do not even submit to their own rules? So what, are you GOATS? This is not a healthy site and you call yourselves conservative? None the less this is my last post, and you all need to spend more time in prayer and in the word than playing dress up while you sharpen your tongues for gossip!!!!