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"babe" fully accepts their need to receive from God, they will find a way to get to him, a more self-reliant, "sophisticated" person will seek to inderstand God on their own terms, not his.
You need to "come and see".
Indeed, the easy way is to just do as Jesus says and as I keep counselling, "come and see", once you get a glimpse of the destination, the directions make more sense.Sorry, but I find the biblical quotes difficult to understand.
Even your above message is not clear to me. I assume a "babe" is a very young person. Surely them fully accepting anything, should not be seen as a good example of how to make decisions?
A child is not full of it's own importance, it has a "show me" attitude.
Ummm, this whole thread has been about asking for him to be shown. I'm starting to draw the conclusion that its simply a matter of what level of "evidence" one is prepared to accept. Some are happy with a hunch, others need more.
"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." (Hebrews 11.6)
I have repeatedly given you the answer Jesus gave, "come and see".
You cannot "see" just by words on a screen that play into your own limited conception of God's love, power etc.
If you choose not to come then you make the same error as Adam & Eve
The real reason many people stay away from what God is actually doing is that thy know it means change, and they don't want to change, the thought of laying aside their own chosen ways fills them with "trepidation".
If they could see, or just get a glimpse of what happens when you do, it makes it simple & obvious and the only trepidation is not doing so!
I felt the same way about Algebra when I first encountered it as a young teenager. But as I studied Algebra it became clearer, less of a mystery, to me. Have you applied yourself to careful study of the biblical and philosophical bases for the Christian faith? If not, why wouldn't it then be "painfully unclear" to you? Is there some good, objective reason why the Christian faith should not require such investigation and study?aiki, same problem I'm afraid. I appreciate that much of what you quote is obvious to you, but it is painfully unclear to me.
Oh, I don't know...They seem to be saying that to those who really want to find God, He is not as obscure as you make Him out to be.They all seem to be giving reasons why people don't see God. It doesn't seem to give any reasons as to why he doesn't make it obvious.
Is there some good reason why this should hold true for everything? Must everything you wish not to see be nonetheless evident to you?It might indicate that its there, but we are choosing not to see it perhaps? I see plenty of things every day which I would prefer not to, that doesn't mean that I can't see them.
I have read all 11 pages, but has anyone suggested you simple Ask Seek Knock as outlined in Luke 11? After all Christ Showed Thomas exactly what He needed to see, so why would you be treated any differently?
I felt the same way about Algebra when I first encountered it as a young teenager. But as I studied Algebra it became clearer, less of a mystery, to me. Have you applied yourself to careful study of the biblical and philosophical bases for the Christian faith? If not, why wouldn't it then be "painfully unclear" to you? Is there some good, objective reason why the Christian faith should not require such investigation and study?
Oh, I don't know...They seem to be saying that to those who really want to find God, He is not as obscure as you make Him out to be.
Is there some good reason why this should hold true for everything? Must everything you wish not to see be nonetheless evident to you?
We Ask in Prayer. "God Please Send the Holy Spirit that I may see and Hear you more clearly. Open my eye so i may see, open my ears that i may hear, do what ever it takes to soften my heart to accept what my eyes and ears tell me you are saying."How do I "ask"?
How do I "seek"?
How do I "knock"?
Practical, implementable instructions, in modern English. Dumb it down as much as you can please.
I only used the Algebra analogy to highlight one particular point about study. I did not intend for it to be stretched any farther than the point I made. As you have noted, the analogy doesn't really sustain a broader parallel, which is why I didn't offer it as such.Well, I went to a Christian school, so there was some religious education, but in fairness I wouldn't say I applied myself to careful study. You do bring up a good analogy.
I think the biggest difference is in algebra, I could see practical examples early on, of how it worked in the real world. For example I could use it as a tool to solve maths problems involving money. I could recreate the equations on the page with physical tests using the cash in my wallet.
Then of course there is the not too small matter of algebra being disposed of by most people as they leave school with virtually no consequence. Christianity however claims that there are serious consequences from disposing it. IMO, something with such serious consequences should not require intensive study. It should be made obvious and tangible to everyone, not just those with the ability to study it.
I have met many people who do not want God. As they have explained to me, He cramps their style; He interferes with what they want to do; He makes them feel guilty for the bad things they do; He demands their worship and a holy, pure life. Truly acknowledging God always means submission to Him and conformity to His will and way. A great many people simply don't want to submit and conform. They are their own god, the captain of their own fate; their life is their own and they have no intention of thinking or living otherwise. They like very much living without God and they are determined not to live otherwise.I still don't understand why anyone in their right mind would not want to really find an almighty powerful God who we will eventually be forced to meet anyway at death.
What makes you think someone else wants it less than you do?
I have not actually followed this conversation, but I did notice this question, and I have been following your thoughts on the other thread. I think you are asking this because you haven't done it before, and perhaps you haven't really known anyone that does this, and that results in some confusion or uncertainty about what exactly this is.How do I "ask"?
How do I "seek"?
How do I "knock"?
Practical, implementable instructions, in modern English. Dumb it down as much as you can please.
Most of the laymen discussions I've entered into about whether God exists tend to focus on how the world was created and whether Jesus existed. The arguments seem to be vague and go round and round without much resolution, mainly because of the time that has lapsed since those events.
I would like to know how (as a current agnostic) I could explore and perhaps be convinced that there is a God who is currently present in our every day lives?
Perhaps put another way: If I woke up with amnesia tomorrow, how could you try and convince me that God still exists?
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