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I'm trying to see the whole word here. We know Gentiles got the spirit before water baptism. And we know that paul wasn't sent to baptize. And this baptism of fire and spirit isn't just that we are suddenly made new, but it's the work of the spirit in us. Why are so many who are baptized In water still unfaithful to the Lord? Is the spirit not helping them? Or is it that they have taken God's grace in vain?There you go again. An out-of-context quotation and belief. Unbelievable.
It is an open question whether or not Matthew 3:11 does refer to the Pentecost event of Christian baptism and the giving of the Spirit for rebirth. Contextually, Matthew 3:7-12 is addressing the Pharisees and Sadducees who rejected John’s baptism and his preaching. This is clear.
I am not sure at this point what John's statement means by his usage of "spirit baptism" but I am sure of what "fire" means. It is judgment and no Christian wants to be apart of that.
A POSSIBLE INTERPRETATION: In Matthew 3:10, John said that “even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire” (Mt 3:10). In other words, those who would not repent would be destroyed by a judgment of fire. As a general rule, when a word is clearly defined by an author, and he uses the same word again within the same context, we presume that he has the same meaning in mind in both instances. It would stand to reason, then, that if the “fire” of verse 10 refers to judgment, so does the “fire” of verse 11.
If that were not enough, immediately after speaking of the baptism of fire, John went on to say “his winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire” (Mt 3:12). Verse 12 elaborates on and explains verse 11.
It is possible John has two groups of people in mind: those who respond to Jesus in repentance, and those who do not. Those who respond in repentance will be gathered into the barn (saved), while those who do not repent will be burned (damned). Burned with what? Fire. In context, then, the baptism with “the Holy Spirit and fire” John spoke of was a single baptism with a double effect. Those who believe and repent would be baptized with the Spirit, whereas those who do not believe and do not repent will be baptized with fiery judgment by the God who is a consuming fire (Heb 12:29). Both are called a baptism.
This may sound weird to us because we associate baptism with something good. However, “baptism” is also associated with negative things, such as death. In Mark 10:38-39 and Luke 12:50, Jesus spoke of His death as a baptism. So whether the baptism is good or bad depends on the context. In the context of Matthew 3, the baptism is both good and bad. It’s good for the repentant, but bad for the unrepentant. The repentant will be given the Holy Spirit while the unrepentant will be judged.
I need to do much more work in this area. Context. Context. Context.
I am finished with this conversation. It's over.I'm trying to see the whole word here. We know Gentiles got the spirit before water baptism. And we know that paul wasn't sent to baptize. And this baptism of fire and spirit isn't just that we are suddenly made new, but it's the work of the spirit in us. Why are so many who are baptized In water still unfaithful to the Lord? Is the spirit not helping them? Or is it that they have taken God's grace in vain?
Fire is not judgment alone but is God's eye who sees all. Jesus has eyes of fire. He discerns our heart. Fire represents God's spirit. Is his spirit a plages or his wrath? It's the wonderful light of Christ is what it is. Even God's judgment is just and true amen.There you go again. An out-of-context quotation and belief. Unbelievable.
It is an open question whether or not Matthew 3:11 does refer to the Pentecost event of Christian baptism and the giving of the Spirit for rebirth. Contextually, Matthew 3:7-12 is addressing the Pharisees and Sadducees who rejected John’s baptism and his preaching. This is clear.
I am not sure at this point what John's statement means by his usage of "spirit baptism" but I am sure of what "fire" means. It is judgment and no Christian wants to be apart of that.
A POSSIBLE INTERPRETATION: In Matthew 3:10, John said that “even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire” (Mt 3:10). In other words, those who would not repent would be destroyed by a judgment of fire. As a general rule, when a word is clearly defined by an author, and he uses the same word again within the same context, we presume that he has the same meaning in mind in both instances. It would stand to reason, then, that if the “fire” of verse 10 refers to judgment, so does the “fire” of verse 11.
If that were not enough, immediately after speaking of the baptism of fire, John went on to say “his winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire” (Mt 3:12). Verse 12 elaborates on and explains verse 11.
It is possible John has two groups of people in mind: those who respond to Jesus in repentance, and those who do not. Those who respond in repentance will be gathered into the barn (saved), while those who do not repent will be burned (damned). Burned with what? Fire. In context, then, the baptism with “the Holy Spirit and fire” John spoke of was a single baptism with a double effect. Those who believe and repent would be baptized with the Spirit, whereas those who do not believe and do not repent will be baptized with fiery judgment by the God who is a consuming fire (Heb 12:29). Both are called a baptism.
This may sound weird to us because we associate baptism with something good. However, “baptism” is also associated with negative things, such as death. In Mark 10:38-39 and Luke 12:50, Jesus spoke of His death as a baptism. So whether the baptism is good or bad depends on the context. In the context of Matthew 3, the baptism is both good and bad. It’s good for the repentant, but bad for the unrepentant. The repentant will be given the Holy Spirit while the unrepentant will be judged.
I need to do much more work in this area. Context. Context. Context.
Fire is not judgment alone but is God's eye who sees all. Jesus has eyes of fire. He discerns our heart. Fire represents God's spirit. Is his spirit a plages or his wrath? It's the wonderful light of Christ is what it is. Even God's judgment is just and true amen.
I told you I am out of this conversation. You want to continue. I have no other choice than to access your account and hit the "Ignore" button. You are hereby blocked from my posts.I think the ungodly would show wisdom if they admitted that their judgment was just. Who can fight against God? You must give up and submit. And seek mercy
If baptism is not a commandment what is it then? Instruction?It symbolizes our death and resurrection with Christ. When people have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior .... most will want to be baptized .... but it is not a requirement .... also Jesus did not command baptism .... rather teach all to observe all His commandments (teach all nations)
One of the instructions the Lord gave His Apostles was, “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you” (Matthew 28:19–20).
Yes, we are to follow His commandments .... but baptism is not a commandment ... teach all nations about all His commandments.
This is one of the best examples of a botched interpretation of Scripture I have come across in a long time here at CF.One of the instructions the Lord gave His Apostles was, “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you” (Matthew 28:19–20).
Yes, we are to follow His commandments .... but baptism is not a commandment ... teach all nations about all His commandments.
This is one of the best examples of a botched interpretation of Scripture I have come across in a long time here at CF.
Matthew 28:19 doesn't say "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations" as you have stated in your post with BOLD FACE and UNDERLINED. The text of Scripture says "Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all nations." Big difference. Making disciples is the command. And how is that command fulfilled? By baptizing and teaching. Both baptizing and teaching are equally emphasized by Jesus and both are commanded.
The interpretation of Scripture is not rocket science.
I dont know what it is. But Paul didn't come to baptize. If that's how we get the spirit why wouldn't he give it to us? I walk by faith here. I may not understand but he is in me. So how can I refuse that? This i do understand.If baptism is not a commandment what is it then? Instruction?
The Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation, is a faulty interpretation.Yes Jesus commanded his disciples to teach all nation about his commandments but what are these commandments? Isn't baptism one of them as so highlighted by Peter? Surely Peter is one of the disciples that Jesus commands to teach all nations his commandments?
Acts 2:38
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
John the Baptist ... one isn't baptized into the Christian faith ... one is baptized symbolizing the death and resurrection of Christ.Baptism was instituted by Jesus after his resurrection but before his ascension into heaven. The first Christian baptism occurred on the Day of Pentecost some fifty days after Jesus' resurrection. NOBODY WAS BAPTIZED INTO THE CHRISTIAN FAITH BEFORE THE DAY OF PENTECOST! A basic understanding of the content of Scripture will reveal this. Where do you get this idea that Christian Baptism existed before the day of Pentecost? You certainly don't get it from Scripture!
I am completely done with this conversation.
I am done with this conversation.John the Baptist ... one isn't baptized into the Christian faith ... one is baptized symbolizing the death and resurrection of Christ.
I don't disagree. Baptism does not save but it is commanded for believers to go through it as long as they are able. I have never said that baptism is a prerequisite for salvation.The Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation, is a faulty interpretation.
In Acts 2:38
Acts 2:38 is referring to their being baptized “because” they had received forgiveness of their sins (repentance). Some other verses where the Greek preposition eis does not mean “in order to obtain” are Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 3:21; Acts 19:3; 1 Corinthians 1:15; and 12:13.
One don't receive salvation by being baptized ...
Romans 6:3-7 says, “Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.This is one of the best examples of a botched interpretation of Scripture I have come across in a long time here at CF.
Matthew 28:19 doesn't say "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations" as you have stated in your post with BOLD FACE and UNDERLINED. The text of Scripture says "Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all nations." Big difference. Making disciples is the command. And how is that command fulfilled? By baptizing and teaching. Both baptizing and teaching are equally emphasized by Jesus and both are commanded.
The interpretation of Scripture is not rocket science.
I am out of this conversation with you. I told you this two or three times. One more time and I will access your account and hit the "ignore" button. You will be forever blocked.Was Paul defying Christ by making this statement and not baptizing? If baptism was indeed required (a commandment) .. then this statement he made would be contrary to the supposed commandment to baptize.
Your thoughts on Mark 16:16 , He that believeth and is BAPTIZED shall be saved >Baptism is a ceremony proclaiming that Jesus is your Lord and Savior, demonstrates your commitment to Him.
In Matthew 28:18-20, Jesus says, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
The act of baptism don't save a person .... Jesus does .... baptism is not a requirement to be saved ... rather a outward display of what has already happened inside.
The physical act of baptism is not what changes you. Instead, it is the Holy Spirit's work that makes the difference. Baptism moves your heart toward a closer relationship with Christ. It marks the beginning of a journey of a changed life.
As far as we know from scripture ... Water Baptism first started with John the Baptist ... baptism of repentance ... paving the way (prophesy of) for the Savior to come
There are no verses in the Bible that tell us whether John did or did not baptize any Gentiles but Scripture references clearly indicate that there have always been some Gentile converts abiding with the nation of Israel and therefore we can safely assume that some were baptized of him.
Jesus mentions a condition related to salvation (baptism) in Mark 16:16. However, a related condition should not be confused with a requirement. For example, having a fever is related to being ill, but a fever is not required for illness to be present. Nowhere in the Bible do we find a statement such as “whoever is not baptized will be condemned.” Therefore, we cannot say that baptism is necessary for salvation based on Mark 16:16 or any other verse.Your thoughts on Mark 16:16 , He that believeth and is BAPTIZED shall be saved >
Just a reminder , that the Greek word SLALL BE SAVED // SOZO , is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE in the SIGNULAR in other words , he will saved them ifthey are BAPTIZED .
dan p
Jesus mentions a condition related to salvation (baptism) in Mark 16:16. However, a related condition should not be confused with a requirement. For example, having a fever is related to being ill, but a fever is not required for illness to be present. Nowhere in the Bible do we find a statement such as “whoever is not baptized will be condemned.” Therefore, we cannot say that baptism is necessary for salvation based on Mark 16:16 or any other verse.
Following are verses that relate to being saved and no mention of baptism .... (there are many more) .... salvation is most often tied to belief (faith)
John 3:16; John 3:18; John 3:36; John 5:24; John 6:53-54; John 8:24; Acts 16:31)
Notice in Mark 16:16-18Then do say that BAPTISM // BAPTIZO does not mean WATER BAPTISM ?
Is BAPTISM required FOR all people TODAY to be saved ?
So what is the requirement in Mark 16:16-18 to cast out DEMONS ??
Or what is the requirement to SPEAK in new tongues ??
your thoughts with am verse , PLEASE ?
danp
Can an unsaved person get water baptized? Yes .... does that mean they are saved? NoYour thoughts on Mark 16:16 , He that believeth and is BAPTIZED shall be saved >
Just a reminder , that the Greek word SHALL BE SAVED // SOZO , is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE in the SIGNULAR in other words , he will saved them if THEY are BAPTIZED .
dan p
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