How can Creationism be falsified?

[USincognito]

maby its because english isnt my native, but even according to scientific papers there is no problem to consider dolphins flippers as fins:

A comparison of pectoral fin contact between two different wild dolphin populations. - PubMed - NCBI

Awesome, your Google search produced a paper by one researcher who uses pectoral fins incorrectly.

The fact is the manus of marine mammals is called a flipper because the bone stucture is comprised of bones identical to those of the terrestrial mammals from which it evolved. The same goes for penguin flippers and the paddles of mosasaurs and plesiosaurs.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

this is your belief. its a fact that those are fins. not legs.

They are limbs. Did you even read the posts and see the illustrations?
Did you perhaps not understand it?
Simplisticly put, it means that for every bone in a whale's "fin", you can find an analogous bone in the same place of any random land walking mammal - and the same genes in both are responsible for those structures. Millions of years of evolution off course has changed the shape of those bones, quite drastically even, and some even mutated away completely. But the basic structure of the ones that remain, how they connect to one another, is virtually the same among all mammals.

This match of bones is not present in fins.

sharks also have them:
Sonic hedgehog gene provides evidence that our limbs may have evolved from sharks’ gills

You should read the articles you link, because this one doesn't support your case. It actually supports the opposite (no surprise there).

It is talking about the ancestral genes of the genes that make limbs in tetrapods.
The genes they evolved from.

As in, those ancestral genes did not produce limbs.

One branch of off spring became the limb making genes present in mammals.
The other branch is found in sharks, among others. That branch does not make limbs.

Exactly like what the barbarian has been explaining you with the patience of an angel, that I don't even believe exists.

i can say its a vestigial legs. so we may not find all the internal structure of a real legs

Evolution says: you will find exactly zero internal structure of real legs. In any of them.

 

[The Barbarian]

"Fin" seems to translate best as "翼."

Flipper is translates better as: "手"

 

[xianghua]

This match of bones is not present in fins.

again: so what? the whale still use it as flippers\fins. so they arent legs at all.

Evolution says: you will find exactly zero internal structure of real legs. In any of them.

no. if it was not the case they will just call it "adaptation". its not a prediction.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

again: so what?

So, you're wrong.

the whale still use it as flippers\fins.

Off course.

so they arent legs at all.

They are adapted legs, as shown by the bone structure beneath the skin.
Fins aren't adapted legs, again as shown by the bone structure beneath the skin.

And by the genes that build both.

no. if it was not the case they will just call it "adaptation"

Nope. Nested hierarchy is a real thing.
You will not find sharks with leg-building genes, just like you won't find a mammal with feathers or a reptile with inner ear bones.

. its not a prediction.

Except that it is.

 

[PsychoSarah]

again: so what? the whale still use it as flippers\fins. so they arent legs at all.

So if I walk on my hands, they are suddenly feet? Whales have specialized feet that act as flippers, but, structurally, they are still more like our own feet than the fin of a shark.

no. if it was not the case they will just call it "adaptation". its not a prediction.

If evolution weren't predictive, we wouldn't be able to make flu vaccines in time for the flu season every year, because we wouldn't be able to predict how viruses change over time. Yet, we manage to get it right, most years.

 

[The Barbarian]

I think it's time to let him go. There comes a point where it amounts to rubbing it in, and we're close to that point now.

 

[USincognito]

again: so what? the whale still use it as flippers\fins. so they arent legs at all.

Penguins use flippers. Does that mean they are not modified bird wings? Sea turtles use flippers. Does that mean they are not modified legs?

Here's a bonus question for you, if manatee flippers didn't evolve from terrestrial mammal forelimbs, why do they have fingernails?

 

[USincognito]

we can say the same for those ferarri cars:

Cars don't reproduce!!!

 

[The Barbarian]

No you can't that's nonsense. You can't prove any of that.

Even honest creationists admit that transitional forms are strong evidence for evolution. Would you like me to show you?

You can't show a roach evolving into a termite.

I can, however, show you that termites evolved from roaches. Individuals don't evolve. Populations do. Would you like me to show you that, again?

Your objections are all supposition and assumption.

And the mollusc eye thing is also not evidence of the evolution of the eye from nothing to the fully developed eye.

Evolution never produces things from nothing; it's always a modification of something pre-existing. This is why you're having such a hard time getting it.

Each mollusc eye is unique to the creature.

And yet we find each stage in the evolution of complex eyes existing in mollusks. Which as you know, is powerful evidence for evolution. Even more compelling, the specific changes for the evolution of mollusk eyes only happens in that phylum, and not in others. Likewise the specific genes for those changes are modified mollusk genes.

How do you know it was not created that way?

Of course it was created that way. You just don't approve of the way He did it.

 

[The Barbarian]

Cars don't reproduce!!!

 

[xianghua]

Nope. Nested hierarchy is a real thing.
You will not find sharks with leg-building genes, just like you won't find a mammal with feathers or a reptile with inner ear bones.
.

again- wrong (look at figure c):

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic...hints-that-wings-evolved-for-show-not-flight/

 

[xianghua]

So if I walk on my hands, they are suddenly feet?

no, because its not a regular situation. they are also doesnt look like feets but like hands and anyone can tell the difference.

If evolution weren't predictive, we wouldn't be able to make flu vaccines in time for the flu season every year, because we wouldn't be able to predict how viruses change over time. Yet, we manage to get it right, most years.

not realy. first- the flu virus doesnt change into something that is not a virus. so its not evolution of a new organism. and secondly- scienstis will still be able to make vaccines even if evolution was not true. so it doesnt have any connection to evolution.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

again- wrong (look at figure c):

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic...hints-that-wings-evolved-for-show-not-flight/

....you do know that Birds are descended from Dinosaurs, right?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

again- wrong (look at figure c):

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic...hints-that-wings-evolved-for-show-not-flight/

There are no mammals with feathers or reptiles with inner earbones in that article or any of the figures.

This is where you explain what point you were trying to make.

 

[Jimmy D]

again- wrong (look at figure c):

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic...hints-that-wings-evolved-for-show-not-flight/

How does that show Tagliatellimonster is wrong?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

no, because its not a regular situation. they are also doesnt look like feets but like hands and anyone can tell the difference.

Yeah...; comparative anatomy goes into a wee-bit more detail then just "what it looks like".

not realy. first- the flu virus doesnt change into something that is not a virus. so its not evolution of a new organism. and secondly- scienstis will still be able to make vaccines even if evolution was not true. so it doesnt have any connection to evolution.

Dude... the fact that we need to develop new vaccines every year, should tell you that things change over time.

If it wasn't for flu strains evolving we could just use the same vaccine over and over again.

 

[xianghua]

Penguins use flippers. Does that mean they are not modified bird wings? Sea turtles use flippers. Does that mean they are not modified legs?

have you ever seen a case where a whale use its flipper as legs?

Here's a bonus question for you, if manatee flippers didn't evolve from terrestrial mammal forelimbs, why do they have fingernails?

guess what?:

Do Manatees Have Fingernails?


"Dr. Daryl P. Domning, an expert on the evolution of sirenians and a member of Save the Manatee Club's Board of Directors explains this difference: "One could speculate that the nails might be helpful in preventing abrasion of the edges of the flippers when the animals use them to 'walk' along the sea bottom, as West Indian and West African manatees sometimes do; whereas the other species might do this less"

 

[xianghua]

If it wasn't for flu strains evolving we could just use the same vaccine over and over again.

there is a big difference between "evolving" and "changing".

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

there is a big difference between "evolving" and "changing".

no, no there isn't.