How Can Abortion Be Biblically Defended?

[Justified112]

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

The governing authorities decide what is murder according to the Bible.

Nope. The Bible defines it and expects governing authorities to govern accordingly. Nowhere does God EVER leave it up to us to subjectively define what is good and evil.

The last thing you want is for the government to start telling us what our moral positions should be. Sorry, but you are wrongfully misapplying/misusing that passage to mean something it doesn't mean and was not meant to address.

 

[SkyWriting]

That is NOT true.

The doctors said they had to quickly dilate her cervix and perform an abortion to save her. "I fought it," she says. "But they told me I would die — that it was either me and my son or just my son."

Granted, eventually she gave consent. If I take more than 30 seconds to search I could likely do better.
Doctors say abortions do sometimes save women's lives


There are laws against abortions without consent.
There is a reason those laws exist.
So you are right that some places have laws against it.

 

[Justified112]

My "Cherry Picking" involved finding all references to "human institution" and to "Government" and reading what they said about local government. You can do the same thing below.

Feel free to cherry pick the ones that suit you. I urge you to find all passages that call for civil disobedience against "evil" kings, or governments, or authority figures, or evil laws, or any institutions of man of any kind.

What Does the Bible Say About Government?
What Does the Bible Say About Human Institution?

The government doesn't force anyone to get abortions. It doesn't mandate abortions upon anyone, and the government doesn't perform abortions on anyone. So being against abortions isn't rebellion against the government. We are free, per our Constitution to speak out against the practice of abortion. Abortion is a matter of conscience. There is not one law on the books affirming abortion as either legal or non-murder.

 

[SkyWriting]

Nope. The Bible defines it and expects governing authorities to govern accordingly. Nowhere does God EVER leave it up to us to subjectively define what is good and evil.

The last thing you want is for the government to start telling us what our moral positions should be. Sorry, but you are wrongfully misapplying/misusing that passage to mean something it doesn't mean and was not meant to address.

I know how you feel. I have felt the same way for years. So I looked up all passages regarding government before I came to my surprising conclusion.

What Does the Bible Say About Human Institution?
What Does the Bible Say About Government?

 

[Justified112]

The doctors said they had to quickly dilate her cervix and perform an abortion to save her. "I fought it," she says. "But they told me I would die — that it was either me and my son or just my son."

Granted, eventually she gave consent. If I take more than 30 seconds to search I could likely do better.
Doctors say abortions do sometimes save women's lives

Medically terminating a pregnancy and "abortions" are not the same things despite what the goons at Planned Parenthood say.

For one thing, you can terminate a pregnancy without killing the child if the mother's life is in danger. And in the case of ectopic pregnancies, the result is a dead child, but it is not considered an abortion. Abortion has ONE aim. It is the death of an unborn child. The child is ruthlessly torn limb from limb or burned alive with acid and vacuumed out of the womb. It is barbaric and has NOTHING to do with saving a woman's life.

Abortions are never required to save a woman's life >>> Is abortion ever medically necessary? Experts say no! - Live Action News

Dublin Declaration >>> Dublin Declaration | Committee for Excellence in Maternal Healthcare

 

[Justified112]

I know how you feel. I have felt the same way for years. So I looked up all passages regarding government before I came to my surprising conclusion.

What Does the Bible Say About Human Institution?
What Does the Bible Say About Government?

None of those verses affirm what you are claiming

 

[SkyWriting]

The government doesn't force anyone to get abortions. It doesn't mandate abortions upon anyone, and the government doesn't perform abortions on anyone. So being against abortions isn't rebellion against the government. We are free, per our Constitution to speak out against the practice of abortion. Abortion is a matter of conscience. There is not one law on the books affirming abortion as either legal or non-murder.

Abortion is legal in all US states, and every state has at least one abortion clinic.
Abortion in the United States by state - Wikipedia

Why Is Abortion Legal in the United States?

 

[SkyWriting]

None of those verses affirm what you are claiming

I urge you to show which Bible verses encourage following personal morality or scriptural mandates, or God's laws over local government law and regulations.
( I have removed some verses, but you may list them if it suits your argument )

What Does the Bible Say About Government?


Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

1 Peter 2:13-17
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Titus 3:1
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

1 Timothy 2:1-3
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,

Psalm 22:28
For kingship belongs to the Lord, and he rules over the nations.

Daniel 2:20-21
Daniel answered and said: “Blessed be the name of God forever and ever, to whom belong wisdom and might. He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding;

Deuteronomy 16:18-20
“You shall appoint judges and officers in all your towns that the Lord your God is giving you, according to your tribes, and they shall judge the people with righteous judgment. You shall not pervert justice. You shall not show partiality, and you shall not accept a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and subverts the cause of the righteous. Justice, and only justice, you shall follow, that you may live and inherit the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

Proverbs 21:1
The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever he will.

Mark 3:24
If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

Matthew 22:21
They said, “Caesar's.” Then he said to them, “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.”

John 19:10-11
So Pilate said to him, “You will not speak to me? Do you not know that I have authority to release you and authority to crucify you?” Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above. Therefore he who delivered me over to you has the greater sin.”

2 Chronicles 7:14
If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

1 Peter 2:17
Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

 

[SkyWriting]

Medically terminating a pregnancy and "abortions" are not the same things despite what the goons at Planned Parenthood say.

For one thing, you can terminate a pregnancy without killing the child if the mother's life is in danger. And in the case of ectopic pregnancies, the result is a dead child, but it is not considered an abortion. Abortion has ONE aim. It is the death of an unborn child. The child is ruthlessly torn limb from limb or burned alive with acid and vacuumed out of the womb. It is barbaric and has NOTHING to do with saving a woman's life.

Abortions are never required to save a woman's life >>> Is abortion ever medically necessary? Experts say no! - Live Action News

Dublin Declaration >>> Dublin Declaration | Committee for Excellence in Maternal Healthcare

I will agree that "medically necessary" is by definition, a case of personal judgment and disputable.
True Story - I knew two women who got pregnant in college, one a paraplegic, the other a quadriplegic and neither had walked since childhood. Did they consult with the general population about how to handle their pregnancy? No. Should they have been subject to majority vote on the outcome of their pregnancy?

I also knew a third born with spinal cancer who never walked in her life, but I am not aware if she was ever pregnant by her husband. Should abortion laws be applied if she was pregnant?

 

[SkyWriting]

Nowhere does God EVER leave it up to us to subjectively define what is good and evil.

Only in scripture:

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

Ezekiel 36:26
And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Jeremiah 31:33
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

 

[Justified112]

I urge you to show which Bible verses encourage following personal morality or scriptural mandates, or God's laws over local government law and regulations.
( I have removed some verses, but you may list them if it suits your argument )

None of the Scriptures you cite indicate that God has abdicated His role as our Moral Lawgiver and Sovereign ruler of the universe. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God has left it up to any government of sinful man to decide what is right and wrong. You, not me, have the burden of proof and you have failed to meet that burden. Your claims are false, and the Bible does not say what you are trying to assign to it.

 

[Justified112]

I will agree that "medically necessary" is by definition, a case of personal judgment and disputable.
True Story - I knew two women who got pregnant in college, one a paraplegic, the other a quadriplegic and neither had walked since childhood. Did they consult with the general population about how to handle their pregnancy? No. Should they have been subject to majority vote on the outcome of their pregnancy?

Noting gives these women the right to commit murder. If they don't want the children, they can give them up for adoption. There are people who have a heart for special needs children and would gladly have taken them.

I also knew a third born with spinal cancer who never walked in her life, but I am not aware if she was ever pregnant by her husband. Should abortion laws be applied if she was pregnant?

Nope.

 

[Justified112]

Only in scripture:

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

Ezekiel 36:26
And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Jeremiah 31:33
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Nope. Those verses to NOT say that God has left it up to sinful man to decide what is or is not right. He leaves it up to us to obey Him. We are to put God first and that means that He takes precedence over even our government.

Peter and John disobeyed the government when they were told to stop preaching in Jesus' Name. Paul violated Roman law by elevating Jesus as Lord above the Caesar. Jesus also violated Roman law by claiming to be a divine King (a role only allowed for the Caesar under the Roman law).

We have the historical evidence of Christians refusing to declare Caesar as "Lord" and worship Caesar above Jesus.

So this notion that we are obey the government even if it contradicts the Bible is simply not true.

 

[Justified112]

Abortion is legal in all US states, and every state has at least one abortion clinic.
Abortion in the United States by state - Wikipedia

Why Is Abortion Legal in the United States?

The problem with that article is that it clearly shows the Supreme Court (SCOTUS) overstepping its constitutional boundaries. The Supreme Court cannot "legalize" anything. The constitutional duty of the Supreme Court is to interpret the constitution. Something is ONLY legalized when the legislature passes a bill that is signed into law by the President of the United States. There are NO laws passed by the legislature and the president that legalize abortion. The SCOTUS had NO constitutional right to declare something illegal. We are not a nation ruled by judges. We have separate branches of government with clearly outlined roles in the Constitution and it is the job of the legislature, per the US Constitution, to legalize something.

Constitutionally, abortion is still illegal as it the murder of innocent human beings and that has not been changed by any laws. There are no laws on the books legalizing abortion.

 

[FireDragon76]

Medically terminating a pregnancy and "abortions" are not the same things despite what the goons at Planned Parenthood say.

What kind of Orwellian double speak is this?

For one thing, you can terminate a pregnancy without killing the child if the mother's life is in danger.

The Roe regime permits states to ban abortion altogether at that late stage of fetal development, except for cases of medical necessity. Typically, in those cases the fetus is either dead or has severe incompatibilities with life.

 

[Justified112]

What kind of Orwellian double speak is this?

It's not. You can terminate a pregnancy and still have a living baby. And medical procedures done in hospitals to save a mother's life are not considered abortions by the medical community, such as terminating an ectopic pregnancy.

The Roe regime permits states to ban abortion altogether at that late stage of fetal development, except for cases of medical necessity. Typically, in those cases the fetus is either dead or has severe incompatibilities with life.

And none are done at that stage for medical necessity. "Late term" includes right up to the day of delivery when the baby is in the birth canal and what medical necessity exists when the baby is at the point of delivery???

 

[FireDragon76]

And none are done at that stage for medical necessity. "Late term" includes right up to the day of delivery when the baby is in the birth canal and what medical necessity exists when the baby is at the point of delivery???

Are you a doctor? How exactly did you arrive at that conclusion without medical expertise?

 

[Justified112]

Are you a doctor? How exactly did you arrive at that conclusion without medical expertise?

Babies are not aborted in the birth canal for medical reasons. It's called infanticide or "partial birth abortion" and it has never, in history, been done for medical reasons. I don't have to be a doctor to know that.

 

[FireDragon76]

Babies are not aborted in the birth canal for medical reasons. It's called infanticide or "partial birth abortion" and it has never, in history, been done for medical reasons. I don't have to be a doctor to know that.

Yes, you do. You are just spouting propaganda. The pregnancies aborted at such a late stage are nonviable and there are health risks to the mother.

 

[Justified112]

Yes, you do. You are just spouting propaganda. The pregnancies aborted at such a late stage are nonviable and there are health risks to the mother.

No, it's not propaganda. And what I said was absolutely true. No baby has ever been killed in birth canal for the sake of the health of the mother.