My wager is you're not compliant with Ex 20:8-11 so I return your quote right back to you.
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.
bugkiller
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My wager is you're not compliant with Ex 20:8-11 so I return your quote right back to you.Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
So does Romans 4.the answer to your question is fairly simple and is the very heart of the gospel.
and if you have not know it, you have missed the gospel itself.
that by Faith in Christ, his righteousness becomes ours ; or
that by faith in christ alone, we are saved by His works.
His works of righteousness becomes our works of righteousness.
the reformers call this "imputation".
Paul said in (Heb. 6:10-11) (v.10) For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. (v.11) And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to full assurance of hope unto the end: God is not going to forget your works, nor your labor of love toward his name. But you need to show these same works diligence to have full assurance of hope unto the end. Hope of what? Hope of eternal life. To the end of what? To the end of your life or to the coming of the Lord. You must work until the end! Jesus said in (Rev. 2:26) And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
So does Romans 4.
bugkiller
Well you got me there...I must have missed something, because what I read was; you freely accepted Jesus in your life, you can also freely choose to stop serving him. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord. Again in Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Lets take a look at what Paul say in 1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. Pay attention to whats being said here and quote verses and scriptures to prove your points from the Bible.
Not when it comes to eternal life.Jesus will judge you by your works, count on it. Here's what Jesus has to say to people who have faith in him.
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Revelation 2:2 I know thy works...
Revelation 2:9 I know thy works...
Revelation 2:13 I know thy works...
Revelation 2:19 I know thy works...
Revelation 3:1 I know thy works...
Revelation 3:8 I know thy works...
Revelation 3:15 I know thy works...
The Hebrew understanding of faith/believe is one of action. If you believe in something, it shows in your obedience. They use the same word for "hear" and "obey", that's why Jesus often says "He that has ears, let him hear" after instruction, he's telling the listeners to do what he says. It's why differing Bible translations will substitute "disobeyed" for "unbelief". Why did most of the Israelites fail to reach the promised land in Moses' generation? Was it unbelief or disobedience? Both, they are one in the same. Look up the word Shema for yourself.Not when it comes to eternal life.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. JN 5
bugkiller
Love covers many sins.How will God judge the world? Who will end up in the lake of fire, and who will end up judging with God on his throne? Most Christians don’t know the answer to these questions. Let me ask you this, what if God commanded you to do something, would you do it? If God told you to obey him would you? God has asked this before, but in this world of “New Testament Christians”, almost everyone is taught that we don’t have to obey the laws of God any more. Most ministers today teach that all you have to do (Rom.10: 9) is confess that Jesus came in the flesh and you shall be saved. They have deceived you into believing that you need no works, that you need no fruits of faith. But if this is true, then the same question persists: how will God judge the world?
What if the God of the old and New Testament were one and the same; what if he said, “Keep my Sabbaths”, would you? What if he said, “Keep My Feasts” because the bible says that these are the Feasts of the Lord, and not the feasts of the Jews, would you? What if he said, “Keep my Commandments and my Judgments” would you keep them or would you allow some false prophet to convince you that they are no longer valid? What if he said, “I have an Everlasting Covenant and that I shed my blood for it,” would you believe him? Can you be saved by faith only? Do works matter? In this text lesson we are by way of the bible, going to prove to you that if you have faith in God then you will bring forth fruits of that faith.
From the Merriam Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary the definition of the word faith is; believe, trust. Now then how do you show the Lord that you believe in him? By your works, that’s how. Let’s go to the chapter in the bible that people call the faith chapter.
Lets go into (Heb.11: 1-2, 7, 17, 24-26, 31, 35, 39-40) (v.1) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (v.2) For by it the elders obtained a good report. Now by the elder’s faith (belief) in God they obtained a good report. But how did theses elders show God that they had faith (belief) in him? Let’s take a look at some of them. (v.7) By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness, which is by faith. How did Noah prove to God that he had faith in him? By his works! Noah moved with faith and fear and began preparing the ark. (v.17) By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that received the promises offered up his only begotten son. Now here is the father of the faithful, and how did he show God the he had faith in him? By his works! The Lord God told Abraham to go and sacrifice his son, his only son. And Abraham’s faith was so strong that he was seconds’ way from killing his only son when the angel of the Lord stopped him, now that’s truly fruits of faith. (v.24) By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter; (v.25) Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; (v.26) Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompense of the reward.
Moses knew who he was once he became of age unlike the movie would have you to believe. How did Moses show his faith? By his works! But through faith he chose to suffer affliction with the people of God rather than enjoy the pleasures of sin by continuing to allow himself to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter: esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt. You see Moses knew exactly whom he was dealing with, and it’s best that you learn that the God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament and his name is Jesus. (v.31) By faith the harlot Ra’-hab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace. The Harlot Ra’- hab showed her faith in God by her works! She hid the spies sent by Joshua, and the Lord blessed her and her family by saving them when he took down the city of Jericho. (v.35) Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: How strong is your faith, will you endure affliction, torture, imprisonment, stoning, and even die for the word of God? These people showed their faith in God by their works, not accepting deliverance because they were looking for a better resurrection. What’s a better resurrection? The first resurrection is a better resurrection because if you are raised in the first resurrection you will not be judged; you will be doing the judging. But all of these people we just read about showed you fruits of faith they showed you works. (v.39) And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: They received a good report through faith. But how did they show their faith (belief) in God? By their works, and they all died with a good report having not received the promise. (v.40) God having provided some better things for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. Everybody that has a better resurrection coming will receive it at the same time. That’s why it says that they without us will not be made perfect. Who is perfect? God is perfect. God is recreating God. That’s another lesson for another time.
you missed a very important point, righteousness is the basis of salvation. and "doing" is a means for one to be righteous. but "doing" or "works" does not make one 'righteous', in fact no one is. Rom 3:10
it can of course prove one to be righteous, but it wont make one "perfectly" righteous. unless of course you believe in a puny god who is satisfied with effort and sincerity, and not perfection in holiness and righteousness.
we do not make ourselves righteous, we are "made" righteous (Rom 5:19). a righteousness imparted to us. the very reason christ lived a sinless life and obeyed the law perfectly.
your quotations are correct, the problem is really the order of placement.
- "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" - no one endures unto the end unless the spirit of God works on the person. this proves one to be a christian, rather than an effort to try to be one.
- "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee" - no issue here either, for the true child of God always take heed and continues hearing correct doctrine.
here is your order:
DOING/FOLLOWING/PERSEVERING -> TRIES TO MAKE ONE RIGHTEOUS, OR ATTAINS RIGHTEOUS STATE -> REWARDED SALVATION
here is my biblical view of order
SALVATION-> MADE RIGHTEOUS -> "PROVES" RIGHTEOUS STATE BY DOING, FOLLOWING/ PERSEVERING
The fruit of works is death - Romans 3:23.The Hebrew understanding of faith/believe is one of action. If you believe in something, it shows in your obedience. They use the same word for "hear" and "obey", that's why Jesus often says "He that has ears, let him hear" after instruction, he's telling the listeners to do what he says. It's why differing Bible translations will substitute "disobeyed" for "unbelief". Why did most of the Israelites fail to reach the promised land in Moses' generation? Was it unbelief or disobedience? Both, they are one in the same. Look up the word Shema for yourself.
1 John and James explain proper faith, probably in response to people who thought faith was just a mental exercise, I think they were called the Gnostics.
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hears only, deceiving yourself.
James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
James 2:19-20 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself to walk, even as he walked.
1 John 3:6-7 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Sadly you know neither the commandments of God nor the faith of Jesus.Righteousness is obedience from God. Paul say in Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
The Bible is consider our instruction manual as human being. I know what sin is because I read the Bible. In (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.
Jesus said in (Matt. 19:16-17) (v.16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? That’s what we are all trying to obtain correct, eternal life? (v.17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Now if you want to enter into eternal life you most keep the commandments. Sounds like a little work to me. See Exodus 20 for full commandments.
If you yield yourself to Jesus and God, and keep these commandments, you are now in the form of righteousness. If you don't, then you yield yourself as unrighteousness unto sin. Whats the different between a saint and a sinner? The commandments. Lets go to Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. As long as sin is in the world, there have to be the law (commandments).
The fruit of works is death - Romans 3:23.
One can't earn their salvation by works because its a free gift - Rom 6:23. Further more the Scripture states there are none that do good even outside of Paul's words - Ps 14:3. Should you not like my Psalms reference try Isa 63:17 on for size. It point out the exact reason for the law - to make guilty. This is so sin can be legally charged and forgiven. Paul points this fact out in Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. IOW there is no basis to charge for wrong doing without law (required performance).
James does not require performance of the law as the works you seem to be talking about with your reference and quote of James 2:19-20.
Yes I know and understand about the Shema.
You have misplaced pronouns in your I John reference and quotes.
bugkiller
Sadly you know neither the commandments of God nor the faith of Jesus.
bugkiller
Righteousness is obedience from God. Paul say in Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
The Bible is consider our instruction manual as human being. I know what sin is because I read the Bible. In (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.
Jesus said in (Matt. 19:16-17) (v.16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? That’s what we are all trying to obtain correct, eternal life? (v.17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Now if you want to enter into eternal life you most keep the commandments. Sounds like a little work to me. See Exodus 20 for full commandments.
If you yield yourself to Jesus and God, and keep these commandments, you are now in the form of righteousness. If you don't, then you yield yourself as unrighteousness unto sin. Whats the different between a saint and a sinner? The commandments. Lets go to Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. As long as sin is in the world, there have to be the law (commandments).
you missed the point, faith is not anti-obedience or anti-works. in fact genuine faith is shown by its works.
BUT regardless of how sincere you are in striving to follow the law and be obedient, it will not get you into heaven simply because the qualification is INFALLIBILITY in doing (perfection in obedience) and NOT sincerity in striving to be obedient. If you sin only once (which ALL men does) then you are UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, because God is perfectly holy and his standard is perfection. nothing but perfect obedience is required. (James 2:10)
but you already know this and Paul has laboriously presented this in the book of Romans- that if our righteousness becomes the qualifier, we all fail because NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS (even if they strive to).
Therefore the only solution God has provided is that the righteousness of another be imputed to God's elect. And this time this is an INFALLIBLE righteousness (perfect in obedience) for it is none other but that of God the Son. We are 'made' righteous.
Rom 3:21,22 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it-- the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe.
truly after more than 1000 posts you still missed the gospel message. but that's ok, others are much worse.
Again...Jesus said in (Matt. 19:16-17) (v.16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? That’s what we are all trying to obtain correct, eternal life? (v.17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Now if you want to enter into eternal life you most keep the commandments. Sounds like a little work to me.
All we need to do is love.Jesus say in (Matt. 7:21-23) (v.21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven. You mean you must do more than call on the name of the Lord to enter into the kingdom of heaven? (Which will be set up on this earth)? (v.22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? (v.23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Now this is not the harlot, the thief, or the murder, these are religious people; some had the power to cast out devils. And what did they put before the Lord? Their works! It’s obvious that their iniquity overrode their wonderful works. But they put their works on the table before the Lord, that’s what you are going to be judged by, your works!
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. JN 10The Hebrew understanding of faith/believe is one of action. If you believe in something, it shows in your obedience. They use the same word for "hear" and "obey", that's why Jesus often says "He that has ears, let him hear" after instruction, he's telling the listeners to do what he says. It's why differing Bible translations will substitute "disobeyed" for "unbelief". Why did most of the Israelites fail to reach the promised land in Moses' generation? Was it unbelief or disobedience? Both, they are one in the same. Look up the word Shema for yourself.
1 John and James explain proper faith, probably in response to people who thought faith was just a mental exercise, I think they were called the Gnostics.
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hears only, deceiving yourself.
James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
James 2:19-20 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself to walk, even as he walked.
1 John 3:6-7 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
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