How are we to explain these "miracles?"

Heissonear said:

.
I never met the woman and child before the event.

Click to expand...

Let me take some guesses based on how I would fake such an event.
Was the child wearing a lose shirt or bulky clothes? Was the entire arm and shoulder joint visible?

Was the faith healer holding the arm when it lengthened?

Did the mother tell you explicitly that the child's arm was shorter than the other? not deformed in an unspecified way, but actually saying "this arm is half the length of the other"?

Heissonear said:

.
I never met the woman and child before the event.

Click to expand...

So, you had no knowledge of the child's alleged deformity before the miracle cure. Not surprising.

Discerning a Spiritual Event is impossible for naturalistic people, all they have are thoughts and mentally derived conclusions, like you are accumulating.

Click to expand...

So you find "thoughts" to be an impediment? Again, not surprising.

But the Spiritual Anointing from Him, as the Bible clearly states, teaches them about all things, even truth.

I John 2:20,27
"You have an Anointing from the Holy One. .... The Anointing which you received. ... teaches you about all things"

Click to expand...

Which saves you the burden of thinking...

I witnessed a Miracle. You think I was deceived by men.

Click to expand...

And women -- the baby's mother was certainly in on it; some of the other "witnesses" were shills for the con.

Who knows the truth about this Miracle? Were you there?

Click to expand...

You were there -- didn't protect you from being conned.

You promote Naturalism, and think all things happen and can be explained through natural processes. You also promote thoughts and human opinions, even about what something you do not have details of. Nor His Anointing to present truth as He leads and teaches.

Click to expand...

So you're saying it's impossible for you to be conned because you're anointed?

You also know that your foundation of Naturalism is proven to be error by just one Miracle, where Power from on High Rules over the Natural.

Click to expand...

And you need that miracle to be real so that you can be superior.

If I was you I would see your dilemma and turn to Him. You keep acting like He does not exist and others do not know Him.

Click to expand...

You're going to need to do better, Heiss -- and I don't think you can.

TLK Valentine said:

And women -- the baby's mother was certainly in on it; some of the other "witnesses" were shills for the con.

Click to expand...

Do you have proof of this, or do you always libel people who you know absolutely nothing about? Your incredulity is no defense for your accusation of fraud. With absolutely no evidence to support you, you've defamed a person you don't know in a written medium. That's called libel.

KWCrazy said:

Do you have proof of this, or do you always libel people who you know absolutely nothing about? Your incredulity is no defense for your accusation of fraud. With absolutely no evidence to support you, you've defamed a person you don't know in a written medium. That's called libel.

Click to expand...

Actually, my experience is my defense.
I've seen this con before -- up close.
I know how it's done.
I know of Heiss' description of the event that it fits the description of such a con to a T -- the more he describes, the more it fits.
I know the kind of people who are most susceptible to it -- I know from Heiss' descriptions of himself that he is just such a person susceptible to it.

As for proof, all we have is Heiss' testimony (which grows more shaky with every detail) and his own assertion that as one of the "anointed," he cannot be deceived by men. So "proof" has been in short supply from the get-go.

I choose not to call a miracle based on iffy testimony and personal pride. How about you?

As for "libel." If the mother or the miracle worker feel they have been libeled, they can feel free to sue me.

TLK Valentine said:

So, you had no knowledge of the child's alleged deformity before the miracle cure. Not surprising.

So you find "thoughts" to be an impediment? Again, not surprising.

Which saves you the burden of thinking...

And women -- the baby's mother was certainly in on it; some of the other "witnesses" were shills for the con.

You were there -- didn't protect you from being conned.

So you're saying it's impossible for you to be conned because you're anointed?

And you need that miracle to be real so that you can be superior.

You're going to need to do better, Heiss -- and I don't think you can.

Click to expand...

.

Trying to save "the world you are in"? The one where all things can be explained by natural processes?

Why save it when it is unreal?

You think Power on High does not manifest, much less exist. You ignored the Scripture verses in the past post as equaling zero? The Anointing people receive from Him equals zero, means nothing. Who said?

As time passes, is everything He does going to be whitewashed with your "natural processes did it" conclusions?

.

Heissonear said:

.

Trying to save "the world you are in"? The one where all things can be explained by natural processes?

Why save it when it is unreal?

You think Power on High does not manifest, much less exist. You ignored the Scripture verses in the past post as equaling zero? The Anointing people receive from Him equals zero, means nothing. Who said?

As time passes, is everything He does going to be whitewashed with your "natural processes did it" conclusions?

.

Click to expand...

Since you consider yourself "anointed," does that mean you consider yourself incapable of being deceived by men (and women)?

TLK Valentine said:

Actually, my experience is my defense.
I've seen this con before -- up close.
I know how it's done.
I know of Heiss' description of the event that it fits the description of such a con to a T -- the more he describes, the more it fits.
.

Click to expand...

.
Some may ploy "conned" as a method of denying that Miracles happen.

Some people may state Miracles do not happen, that "Miraculous events" all have natural reasons for happening. Naturalists say things like that.

So what's new if someone says something is not a Miracle? Miracles still happen!

So what's new if someone says He does not exist? He still is!

Some people try to wipe Him from existence!

.

Heissonear said:

.
Some may ploy "conned" as a method of denying that Miracles happen.

Some people may state Miracles do not happen, that "Miraculous events" all have natural reasons for happening. Naturalists say things like that.

So what's new if someone says something is not a Miracle? Miracles still happen!

So what's new if someone says He does not exist? He still is!

Some people try to wipe Him from existence!

.

Click to expand...

Are you capable of being deceived?

TLK Valentine said:

Since you consider yourself "anointed," does that mean you consider yourself incapable of being deceived by men (and women)?

Click to expand...

.

Why are some people adamant that Miracles do not occur?

.

TLK Valentine said:

Are you capable of being deceived?

Click to expand...

.

Why continue to "personalize" the Miracle?

The real issue is Him, and how He many times in many ways in history demonstrates His Power before others. He works wonders among us!

.

Heissonear said:

.

Why are some people adamant that Miracles do not occur?

.

Click to expand...

As I've said before, I've got no issue with miracles as a whole, but I kinda doubt God is going to mimic a common fraud.

Heissonear said:

.

Why continue to "personalize" the Miracle?

Click to expand...

because you are the only source of information about the "miracle."


Are. You. Capable. Of. Being. Deceived?

KWCrazy said:

Do you have proof of this, or do you always libel people who you know absolutely nothing about? Your incredulity is no defense for your accusation of fraud. With absolutely no evidence to support you, you've defamed a person you don't know in a written medium. That's called libel.

Click to expand...

Why don't you sue? Pffffffffft ...



Somebody's been conned. Conned in the name of your religion, and a lot of things that it stands for. Any benefit of the doubt in such cases is severly misplaced.

But hey, don't let me keep you from defending these guys.

[serious];65807036 said:

As I've said before, I've got no issue with miracles as a whole, but I kinda doubt God is going to mimic a common fraud.

Click to expand...

.

Matthew 12:10,13
"And behold, there was a man with a withered hand. .... Then He (Jesus) said to the man, "Stretch out your hand!" And he stretched it out, and it was restored to normal, like the other."


Some people may choice to discuss lowly ones who devise evil. The Lord Jesus on High, however, still works Miraculous Wonders around us! Dare we speak what we even witness? Even if those full of doubt cannot handle it?

.

Lord Emsworth said:

Why don't you sue? Pffffffffft ...

Somebody's been conned. Conned in the name of your religion, and a lot of things that it stands for. Any benefit of the doubt in such cases is severly misplaced.

But hey, don't let me keep you from defending these guys.

Click to expand...

Quick to jump on the "con wagon"?

Who said it was a con, a person who does not believe in Miracles?

.

Heissonear said:

Quick to jump on the "con wagon"?

Who said it was a con, a person who does not believe in Miracles?

.

Click to expand...

Believe me, there are many, many people who do believe in miracles, people who believe in Jesus Christ, etc who will tell you exactly the same thing.

You've been conned, scammed, call it what you will.


Stop trying to turn your shortcomings, your problems into shortcomings and problems of other people. There is nothing wrong about anybody who's trying to open your eyes about what happened to you.

Heissonear said:

Quick to jump on the "con wagon"?

Who said it was a con, a person who does not believe in Miracles?

.

Click to expand...

Who said it wasn't, a person who loses face if it was?

TLK Valentine said:

Who said it wasn't, a person who loses face if it was?

Click to expand...

.

You present the Miracle as if it was a true con act. And you insist that I was "decieved". You knew with certainty your conclusions were correct. Why?

I've purposely held back information from "doubters" for this very lowly talk promotion reason. All you have in hand is doubt, and you promoted incorrect conclusions of the Miracle and my witness.

You do remember I was the one who prayed to Jesus to heal the child. What I have held back, what you did not know, is what I did "before and during the prayer". I held the child. The child was in my arms.

You have "twisted" enough about this Miracle through your errant unbelief in Him and about the Power of the Kingdom of God in our midst.

You "twisted" the event where body matter was spontaneously Created by Him on High in healing the arm.

The little arm was cupped in my hand during the work Jesus did.

Why did you throw Him to the side and discuss what lowly people do on earth? Why did you change the focus of the Miracle? Why did you promote deception? This was about a Miracle!

You just would not focus on the Miracle. You just would not promote integrity nor truth. And you kept pushing lowly questions "that had to be answered" but they were with guile.

Yes, I took the child from the mother, I love kids! And I love holding them and talking to them!

I spoke for a while to the child, during which time I felt the desire of the mother's heart. It penetrated me. It was a spontaneous prayer once I handled and then cupped the little deformed arm. Deep within me I knew the child would continue to live with the deformed arm in my hand IF God on High did not do the Miraculous. It was like I could see into the future and was asking God "how should his arm be in his days to come?" The atmosphere became electric. I could give more but let's just say God showed up. Period.

All who walk in doubt and unbelief you received a false testimony from TLK!

Now twist what extra information I just gave, twist it back to "how you want it", how the natural processes account for all that happens on earth!

.

Heissonear said:

.

Matthew 12:10,13
"And behold, there was a man with a withered hand. .... Then He (Jesus) said to the man, "Stretch out your hand!" And he stretched it out, and it was restored to normal, like the other."


Some people may choice to discuss lowly ones who devise evil. The Lord Jesus on High, however, still works Miraculous Wonders around us! Dare we speak what we even witness? Even if those full of doubt cannot handle it?

.

Click to expand...

And the lord then saw someone with one limb shorter than the other, and said, "Hey, I don't want to look like some sort of cheap fraud" and lo did he move on.

You never told me how I did with my guesses about how it went down. I Was initially worried that you might lie about the details to make it sound more impressive (there are actually people who do stuff like that. It's terrible, but it's true) but you've been as forthright about enough other stuff I'll trust your answers.

Was the child wearing a lose shirt or bulky clothes? Was the entire arm and shoulder joint visible?

Was the faith healer holding the arm when it lengthened?

Did the mother tell you explicitly that the child's arm was shorter than the other? Not deformed in an unspecified way, but actually saying "this arm is half the length of the other"?

Lord Emsworth said:

Believe me, ...........

You've been conned, scammed, call it what you will.


Stop trying to turn your shortcomings, your problems into shortcomings and problems of other people. There is nothing wrong about anybody who's trying to open your eyes about what happened to you.

Click to expand...

.

Can you give me a reason for how you knew to say what you posted?

.