How are we to explain these "miracles?"

Neogaia777 said:

Then what from the bible, and what is it about it that made them go the other way and not believe?

There's is a line in the Bible somewhere, where it "some came out of us (of our sort), while previously being of our sort, made themselves (became) not of our sort, because they did not believe (in the power, kindness, mercy, in short, the all the things of God)"

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It is so disjoint from life as we know it today. No one is being healed, no sight is being restored, demons aren't being cast into pigs, no one is walking on water.

Sayre said:

It is so disjoint from life as we know it today. No one is being healed, no sight is being restored, demons aren't being cast into pigs, no one is walking on water.

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Then we need to figure out why that kind of power and ability died out, and restore it... This is something I am currently working on in my research...

Neogaia777 said:

Then we need to figure out why that kind of power and ability died out, and restore it... This is something I am currently working on in my research...

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The simpler hypothesis is that nothing "died out" and everything is as it always was...

Sayre said:

Where is the fact of a miracle? Where?

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Trouble with apprehension?

When God displays His Power from on High, and a young child's limb extends in length and becomes whole and normal in a few seconds time, the Power from on High is then over, right? What created and caused the miracle is over. At that point in time would it be the beginning or the end of facts and evidence? Is it Spiritual or physical facts and evidence that is to be sought? This is where many posters have showed their ignorance and worldly value system, what they have and still walk by in value of substances.

So far your posts show you and others do not get it.

The "taste", the "apprehension", the "substance" that remains after the miracle is on the hearts of those who He allowed to firsthand "witness Him" and "witness His Power". To learn about the "miracle" requires the substance to be presented from the hearts of those witnesses. Again, it's not AFTER the arm is grown and whole, the residual physical evidence, but the evidence is all that had and did happen to the arm; the Intelligence and Power manifested from on High, the display of a dimension Above and beyond anything natural.

Again, what do you seek? What facts do you seek? Worldly or Spiritual? In times past, by following the course and ways of those who are worldly, it's been the "residual physical" OVER the Spiritual Substance in Heart.

What will remove the unbelief in your hearts? Examining what residual "physical evidence" remains? You think that is what God intends to "leave behind" for you to be converted? He knows it is the manifestation of Power you have missed. You are still not apprehending Spiritually. Rather you are use to looking for the wrong evidence and facts. God does not leave clear, obvious, and magnitudes of worldly facts for turning people to Him. What would you be turning to? Worldly facts? Again, posts requesting proof are from Spiritually Barren individuals. Worldly facts is their methodology to walk and talk by. The Spiritual Realm Dynamics they are void of. What would change? Zero. Read Matthew 16:13-17, for this within the Scriptures, the physical realm witnesses or the Spiritual Realm witnesses, the later being what the Church (believers) are built on.

Do you now happen to realize how you have trashed facts, calling his witnesses with substance from Him in their heart liars. What was trashed? What do they have? Who put it there? Did they put it there?

What are you unfamiliar of has incalculable more weight and value than your worldly methodology evidence? Again, you need to wake up from Spiritual ignorance, and living in Spiritual Poverty and Barrenness.

When God choses to work miracles again, who will He come to? To those who trash Spiritual Apprehension and seek tangible physical facts as sufficient proof, or those who seek Who He is, and the substance of What He does? Is it not worldly minded people who continue in unbelief after hearing of miracles? You think they just need physical facts?


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Sayre said:

The simpler hypothesis is that nothing "died out" and everything is as it always was...

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I guess I'm just going to have to agree to disagree with you on that...

Heissonear said:

Trouble with apprehension?

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Projecting again?

madaz said:

Projecting again?

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Who has witnessed Him, and His Power from on High?

What has been trashed?
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Heissonear said:

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Who has witnessed Him, and His Power from on High?

What has been trashed?
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No one witnessed anything.

Ever wonder why no one witnessed the resurrection? The most important event ever and it was kept to behind closed doors? Makes no sense.

Heissonear said:

Well, when someone sees with their eyes a young child's deformed arm lengths and is made whole and normal over a matter of a few seconds, are you going to tell them that what they saw was all in their head?

How can it be just in someone's mind when they see Power rule over the natural, like the miracle mentioned above?

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Heissonear said:

What I witnessed was real. I seen what the Bible states about miracles - events when the Heavens Rule over the natural.

If it was not "just in mind" then you now state that I'm making the miracle up? It is just a story? You dismiss it as never occurring?

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But all you've done is make a vague claim, with absolutely no way to check it. What was the child's name? Who were the other witnesses? When did this happen? Where did this happen? With no way to check, then all we have is a single person's testimony, which is notoriously unreliable.

Sayre said:

No one witnessed anything.

Ever wonder why no one witnessed the resurrection? The most important event ever and it was kept to behind closed doors? Makes no sense.

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Blame the Romans.

They're the ones who closed it.

Heissonear said:

Who has witnessed Him, and His Power from on High?

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Nobody, because the only accounts we have of Him are from people who never witnessed Him.

madaz said:

Nobody, because the only accounts we have of Him are from people who never witnessed Him.

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You mean like the Big Bang?

AV1611VET said:

You mean like the Big Bang?

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I dont know if the big bang witnessed Him.

Perhaps you have a first hand account you can share with us?

AV1611VET said:

You mean like the Big Bang?

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You still don't get it, do you?

AV1611VET said:

You mean like the Big Bang?

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Well, actually, we have witnessed it, if indirectly. We can see the effects that it directly caused, namely the cosmic background radiation.

Care to show me some effects caused directly by the burning bush? Or by Jesus walking on water?

HitchSlap said:

You still don't get it, do you?

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Cut him some slack, he probably hasn't grasped the merits of honest intellectual recourse as yet.

madaz said:

Cut him some slack, he probably hasn't grasped the merits of honest intellectual recourse as yet.

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You guys, he probably simply meant although we don't have first hand accounts witness of the big bang, but can observe it's effects or rather the ripple effect of it's aftereffects in and upon the evolution of the universe and can trace it back to a source that we call the big bang, well (and I don't want to speak for him) but he probably means the same thing about Jesus (with those who believe we don't have records of first hand accounts witness of his (Jesus) existence or his miracles or teaching)

Like the big bang, we do have strong evidence of the effects that some one single very highly influential man did have on western society as it evolved, and so (although I believe we do have firsthand written accounts of Jesus Christ, his existence, miracles, teaching and all he and hid apostles did, we can argue that later), so/and/but still, even if we left all that out (aside), just by the studying the effects, like the evolution of the universe vs. the evolution of western society since 30 A.D, just by the effects alone we trace the evidence back and conclude that both Jesus Christ, just like the big bang do/did exist and those events did happen, is this what you meant AV1611VET?

So, you people need to reconsider please, and I say this with all due respect, you guys may actually be the ones "not getting it"...

God Bless!

Heissonear said:

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Naturalists are quick to dismiss miracles. They come up with (to them) justified reasons to dismiss them. Con artist, magic, psychotic dilusion, and flat out stating "you're lying".

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For completeness´ sake: You dismissed the miracle I had encountered as "mocking".

Neogaia777 said:

You guys, he probably simply meant although we don't have first hand accounts witness of the big bang, but can observe it's effects or rather the ripple effect of it's aftereffects in and upon the evolution of the universe and can trace it back to a source that we call the big bang, well (and I don't want to speak for him) but he probably means the same thing about Jesus (with those who believe we don't have records of first hand accounts witness of his (Jesus) existence or his miracles or teaching)

Like the big bang, we do have strong evidence of the effects that some one single very highly influential man did have on western society as it evolved, and so (although I believe we do have firsthand written accounts of Jesus Christ, his existence, miracles, teaching and all he and hid apostles did, we can argue that later), so/and/but still, even if we left all that out (aside), just by the studying the effects, like the evolution of the universe vs. the evolution of western society since 30 A.D, just by the effects alone we trace the evidence back and conclude that both Jesus Christ, just like the big bang do/did exist and those events did happen, is this what you meant AV1611VET?

So, you people need to reconsider please, and I say this with all due respect, you guys may actually be the ones "not getting it"...

God Bless!

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With all due respect Neogaia777 I did understand what AV was meaning, you are probably just unfamiliar with his style and technique.

The big bang event (if such an event occurred) is supported by corraborating evidence. Having no eye witness accounts of this event is a reasonable expectation to make, considering modern man evolved billions of years later.

The events of Jesus supposedly occurred just a mere 2000 years ago, a time when man was recording significant events as they happened, with eye witness accounts.

Yet for some strange reason we have no eye witness accounts of Jesus.

Only stories of Jesus told by authors who never met him.

This type of evidence in my opinion is insufficient and lacking.

I accept the bible alone is sufficient evidence for most Christians, AV makes no secret that he is one of these people. He is entitled to his beliefs and I fully support and defend his right to believe.

But to be honest, I just don't want to waste time going around the proverbial merry go round of circular reasoning with him.

When it comes to AV, I think it's better to just agree to disagree and enjoy a bit of banter and camaraderie.

madaz said:

Nobody, because the only accounts we have of Him are from people who never witnessed Him.

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What makes you state that? Are you also with others, claiming that I lied about the miracles I've witnessed?

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