How are we supposed to worship? Does contemporary worship offend God?

[tturt]

Not indicating that music shouldn't be in the church but hopefully we can worship Yahweh without any aids including music.

 

[Paul Yohannan]

So here's the thing.

I love contemporary worship, modern Christan music from the likes of Chris Tomlin, Miachel W Smith, Hillsong and other such artists really draws me close to God.

The issue is I see a lot of these bands as very self centered and self pleasing and worship to God should be ALL about Him and not what I get pleasure or enjoyment out of.

When I read the Bible and look at how the Jews in particular worshiped then and today there's a huge difference.

Orthodox and more inward and reflective worship seems to be how Jews and the early Christian church worshipped.

What if anything does God say about this Biblically.

As much as I love contemporary worship, I'd rather worship in a way that is pleasing to God than is pleasing to me and I've really started to worry that I may not be doing the right thing.

Any advice/input in greatly appreciated.

The Orthodox Christians worship in basically the same way we did in the year five hundred. No praise and worship bands, no modernized liturgies, just the ancient practice of the early Church, which is quite God-centered.

 

[timewerx]

Many popular worship songs are unbiblical. It's like trying to manipulate God to do us a favor.

 

[tturt]

Yeah, think that's one main problem is our lyrics are about us. But we can celebrate at Christmas because they're focus is on Yeshua.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Honestly when we enter into worship God,is spirit and truth we are coming into the presence of God.
We are gathered together and Christ is in our midst so we are on Holy ground.
Call me crazy but I belive we should humble ourselves on our knees or if you cannot get to your knees head down.
As well our shoes should be off during praise and worship and prayer.

I think you are confusing an incident with Moses with your life. You are reverting right back to physical things when you just made a contrary statement.

 

[LinkH]

So here's the thing.

I love contemporary worship, modern Christan music from the likes of Chris Tomlin, Miachel W Smith, Hillsong and other such artists really draws me close to God.

The issue is I see a lot of these bands as very self centered and self pleasing and worship to God should be ALL about Him and not what I get pleasure or enjoyment out of.

When I read the Bible and look at how the Jews in particular worshiped then and today there's a huge difference.

Orthodox and more inward and reflective worship seems to be how Jews and the early Christian church worshipped.

What if anything does God say about this Biblically.

As much as I love contemporary worship, I'd rather worship in a way that is pleasing to God than is pleasing to me and I've really started to worry that I may not be doing the right thing.

Any advice/input in greatly appreciated.

Why would you think these bands are self-centered. Do you think if you enjoy the music, that it must be selfish and evil to sing along to it? The Psalms tell people to rejoice.

What about this?
Psalm 33:3
Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.

I was on a discussion list, and one of the participants, a Classics professor involved in Christian ministry who taught Greek at a university and knew Hebrew would point out that the Greek and Hebrew words most often translated 'worship' from Hebrew and Greek referred to the practice of bowing down with ones head toward the floor or ground.

David said He would worship toward the Lord's temple. The Samaritan woman wanted to debate with Jesus over the proper location toward which one should bow down. John bowed down to the angel and the angel said not to do so.

Not surprisingly, the New Testament never says that we are to gather together to 'worship.' Romans 12, in some translations, has a different word translated 'worship', translated in other versions as 'service.' But it does help to understand certain passages to know what 'worship' means in the passage.

The purpose of singing is not prostration. I suppose we could prostrate and sing at the same time. It's good to prostrate to the Lord, to kneel to the Lord, or to raise one's hands to the Lord. I'm not knocking that. The only possible reference I can think of to 'worshiping' in the sense of prostration in church meetings is the hypothetical unbelieving or uninstructed man who falls on his face and says that God is truly among you when the secrets of his heart are made manifest through all prophesying in I Corinthians 14.

As far as singing goes, the New Testament never commands 'Thou shalt have congregational singing.' I Corinthians 14:26 says 'every one of you hath a psalm' which seems to be evidence for solos. Ephesians and Colossians gives instruction on speaking to yourselves in 'psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs.' I suppose this could be fulfilled through taking turns singing solos, antiphonal singing, or congregational singing. Jesus and the disciples sung a hymn after the Lord's supper, and I have read an opinion that the Jewish tradition is to sing specific Psalms 'congregationally' in the small group there at the meal.

Two overarching 'rules' for church meetings are to 'let all things be done unto edifying' and 'let everything be done decently and in order.'

There is no command that says, 'The music must be distasteful to you so the Lord will like it because you don't." Some of the modern choruses have really good, Biblical lyrics that praise God. I've heard some rather shallow lyrics, too, IMO. A lot of the shallower hymns got weeded out over time.

Some people really enjoy old hymns. They like the music, etc. I am one of them. I like some of the old hymns if they are well sung. I also like the newer stuff, too, depending on the song and the content. Enjoying the song doesn't make it bad, especially when the Psalms teach rejoicing before the Lord.

 

[JoeP222w]

Worship is when the word of God is proclaimed and taught by qualified Elders and Pastors.

Music is a very secondary thing on Sunday morning. Far too many churches are focused on the music and the production value and neglect the word of God, or sermons are meant to entertain people, rather than teach the truth of God.

Woe to those churches who seek to increase their membership numbers by attempting to entertain people into the kingdom of God, because they are merely entertaining people on their way to Hell, if they do not preach and teach the whole counsel of God.

 

[NWC]

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him MUST worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 4:23‭-‬24 KJV

 

[seeking.IAM]

I fled my former denomination due to its creep into contemporary worship. Church seemed to be becoming a theatrical production, a spectator event. It seemed to be more about aggrandizing performers than aggrandizing the King of Kings. (Think "applause-meter" with each act trying to out-do the one before it). In short, I came to feel like I had ceased worshipping. As an aside, I find much contemporary Christian music to not be very good music nor very good theology.

My search for a reverential worship style attracted me to the beautiful liturgy of The Episcopal Church. I have no regret making the change. Now when I visit a church offering the other kind of worship I feel like it is anemic or worship-lite if you will.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Worship is when the word of God is proclaimed and taught by qualified Elders and Pastors.

Music is a very secondary thing on Sunday morning. Far too many churches are focused on the music and the production value and neglect the word of God, or sermons are meant to entertain people, rather than teach the truth of God.

Woe to those churches who seek to increase their membership numbers by attempting to entertain people into the kingdom of God, because they are merely entertaining people on their way to Hell, if they do not preach and teach the whole counsel of God.

Amen! We cannot worship who we do not know.

There is a fundamental difference between an average evangelical/Chasimatic church and a liturgical church.

Many churches engaging in a sort of paganism when they believe their singing, chanting, shouting, and/or dancing, brings God to them. In other words, they act, and He responds. That's a gross oversimplification for time's sake. . .

In a liturgical worship service, God acts and then we respond, which I think is the proper way to understand things.

 

[Colter]

So here's the thing.

I love contemporary worship, modern Christan music from the likes of Chris Tomlin, Miachel W Smith, Hillsong and other such artists really draws me close to God.

The issue is I see a lot of these bands as very self centered and self pleasing and worship to God should be ALL about Him and not what I get pleasure or enjoyment out of.

When I read the Bible and look at how the Jews in particular worshiped then and today there's a huge difference.

Orthodox and more inward and reflective worship seems to be how Jews and the early Christian church worshipped.

What if anything does God say about this Biblically.

As much as I love contemporary worship, I'd rather worship in a way that is pleasing to God than is pleasing to me and I've really started to worry that I may not be doing the right thing.

Any advice/input in greatly appreciated.

Worship is a personal attitude of the heart. To behold the beauty of a sunset is to express worship of our heavenly Father. But insincerity can arise when we standardize worship in rituals.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Worship is a personal attitude of the heart. To behold the beauty of a sunset is to express worship of our heavenly Father. But insincerity can arise when we standardize worship in rituals.

My friend, whom you sound similar to, says that he worships God while listening to Van Halen music. I just wonder if God feels the same way. . .

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

So here's the thing.

I love contemporary worship, modern Christan music from the likes of Chris Tomlin, Miachel W Smith, Hillsong and other such artists really draws me close to God.

The issue is I see a lot of these bands as very self centered and self pleasing and worship to God should be ALL about Him and not what I get pleasure or enjoyment out of.

When I read the Bible and look at how the Jews in particular worshiped then and today there's a huge difference.

Orthodox and more inward and reflective worship seems to be how Jews and the early Christian church worshipped.

What if anything does God say about this Biblically.

As much as I love contemporary worship, I'd rather worship in a way that is pleasing to God than is pleasing to me and I've really started to worry that I may not be doing the right thing.

Any advice/input in greatly appreciated.

I think some can be self-centred, though there are many modern songs that have great lyrics and theology.

"In Christ Alone", "How Deep The Father's Love For Us", "Grace Alone", are a few.

And the great hymns of old are of course wonderful too. I quite like worship that includes a mixture of both.

 

[dqhall]

So here's the thing.

I love contemporary worship, modern Christan music from the likes of Chris Tomlin, Miachel W Smith, Hillsong and other such artists really draws me close to God.

As much as I love contemporary worship, I'd rather worship in a way that is pleasing to God than is pleasing to me and I've really started to worry that I may not be doing the right thing.

Any advice/input in greatly appreciated.

The words of a song are more important than what instruments are being used. Whether an organ, a guitar or violin is used is less important than the words. Are the words you sing or listen to true? Do the words express your opinion or someone else's opinion? Giving thanks to God may be done in a private room or in a church hymn.

John Newton was traveling from South Africa on-board a ship that was tossed about violently in a storm. He prayed for God to save his life and arrived to his destination. He later wrote the song, "Amazing Grace." He repented of being a slave trader and testified against slavery becoming part of a successful movement to abolish slavery in England. The hymn that was once contemporary became a classic.

I remember Jesus was at a well in Samaria and a Samaritan woman and he were talking. The woman exclaimed that Samaritans worshiped on a nearby mountain (Mt. Gerazim), while the Jews went to (the temple in) Jerusalem to worship.

John 4:21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when neither in this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, will you worship the Father. 22 You worship that which you don’t know. We worship that which we know; for salvation is from the Jews. 23 But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such to be his worshipers. 24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

 

[AlexDTX]

So here's the thing.

I love contemporary worship, modern Christan music from the likes of Chris Tomlin, Miachel W Smith, Hillsong and other such artists really draws me close to God.

The issue is I see a lot of these bands as very self centered and self pleasing and worship to God should be ALL about Him and not what I get pleasure or enjoyment out of.

When I read the Bible and look at how the Jews in particular worshiped then and today there's a huge difference.

Orthodox and more inward and reflective worship seems to be how Jews and the early Christian church worshipped.

What if anything does God say about this Biblically.

As much as I love contemporary worship, I'd rather worship in a way that is pleasing to God than is pleasing to me and I've really started to worry that I may not be doing the right thing.

Any advice/input in greatly appreciated.

1Sa_15:22 Samuel said, "Does the LORD delight as much in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the LORD? Surely, to obey is better than sacrifice, to pay attention is better than the fat of rams.

Joh_14:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments.

Singing songs is not worship: obedience is worship. Try singing songs after deliberately sinning and see if you are worshiping. Most likely, if you are born again, you will be sorrowing. Songs are merely expressions of your worship which is founded upon your obedience to God. God does not care about the songs, he cares about you.

Post Script
Jesus said that we are to worship the Father in spirit and in truth (John 4:23). One must ask, what does that mean. I believe we can say "in spirit" means in the will of God and "in truth" means doing his will. Thus, obedience is worship, and everything else are expressions of worship, such as giving, serving, communing with the saints, etc.

 

[Archivist]

Worship is a personal attitude of the heart. To behold the beauty of a sunset is to express worship of our heavenly Father. But insincerity can arise when we standardize worship in rituals.

I personally like the beautiful liturgy that we use in the ELCA. I am not personally a fan of contemporary worship services. However, I have friends who find taht the contemporary service brings them closer to God and if that works for them I certainly don't have a problem with it.

 

[blackribbon]

Worship is between you and God. It is the spirit of the relationship, not the service or the music that determines its value or whether or it is genuine. To say otherwords would require investigation beyond the music....but rather "do I worship in the correct worship language" maybe we should have to be praying in Hebrew.....or "do I it in the correct place/building" which means is a big ornate church more proper place that a small group that meets in a house basement or a church that meets in a school cafeteria? I don't think God cares how we worship a long as our personal focus is on Him. I dont' think He grades the group as a whole. My genuine worship doesn't somehow make the next person's "going through the moves" suddenly holy.

 

[Colter]

I see no way that God approves of rock concerts in place of somber worship, and instruction.

That's a God created in your own image. Worship is an attitude of the heart. Anyone anywhere, inside or outside of any religion can worship God quite on their own.

 

[miamited]

So here's the thing.

I love contemporary worship, modern Christan music from the likes of Chris Tomlin, Miachel W Smith, Hillsong and other such artists really draws me close to God.

The issue is I see a lot of these bands as very self centered and self pleasing and worship to God should be ALL about Him and not what I get pleasure or enjoyment out of.

When I read the Bible and look at how the Jews in particular worshiped then and today there's a huge difference.

Orthodox and more inward and reflective worship seems to be how Jews and the early Christian church worshipped.

What if anything does God say about this Biblically.

As much as I love contemporary worship, I'd rather worship in a way that is pleasing to God than is pleasing to me and I've really started to worry that I may not be doing the right thing.

Any advice/input in greatly appreciated.

Hi whitworh,

Whitworth is about what my advice is worth, but...

As I understand worship, it is about the heart and desire of the single individual who is doing the worshiping. Trust me, there are great and huge fellowships around the world that stand and sing 'God of Our Fathers' who aren't worshiping God. As to your complaint about contemporary christian music performers today seeming to be putting on a show that attracts attention to themselves, yes, I'd agree that especially at concert style venues, this may be true.

Some of that, I attribute to the venue. I enjoy christian music concerts. In our area, and I know they go to several cities throughout the year, there is the Winter Jam tour and I enjoy that praise time very much. It's relatively inexpensive and they do raise money for worthy causes. You also get a taste of a lot of different 'kinds' of christian music. I'm not a big fan of Skillet, but I thoroughly enjoy Newsboys.

However, while I do see a certain amount of 'show performance' at these concerts, I am also aware that I'm not sitting in a sanctuary and so I don't necessarily expect the same kind of performance by the musicians as I would in a sanctuary. I'm in a cavernous auditorium where I know that the sound is going to be loud and I'm at a concert where I expect a certain amount of 'show'. I can't speak concerning the heart of the each performer. Are some of them likely doing it all for the money and really don't care how they are coming across in God's sight? Maybe. All I can be responsible for, and I believe that all God asks me to be responsible for, as regards worship, is my own heart and desire to praise and worship Him.

So, for me, I'm not much concerned with the style of the praise and worship music, although yes, it must be about the things of God, as I am about the heart and desire of the one singing or worshiping. I get odd looks all the time in worship services because I'm the guy that is down in front singing to God with my hands held high, looking at Him. I don't care what the person sitting next to me thinks about what I'm doing or that they think I'm putting on a pious show of some kind. My eyes are looking to heaven and my singing is to the King of kings and Lord of lords. I am standing all alone praising and worshiping the God and Father who created and loves me and has shown me immeasurable mercy for my sin, even though, on the earth, there may well be people all around me. In heaven, it's just me and Him. Me singing my praise and adoration and love for Him, and Him looking upon me saying, "Well, done! My good and faithful servant."

What do the Scriptures say about worship? Well, Miriam sang and danced before the Lord in praise and adoration to Him. We're told that at one point David danced naked before the Lord in praise of Him, although, I wouldn't recommend that in public. Giving praise and worship to God through music, to me, is all about the heart of the one offering the praises.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

 

[miamited]

Whitworth "When I read the Bible and look at how the Jews in particular worshiped then and today there's a huge difference.
Orthodox and more inward and reflective worship seems to be how Jews and the early Christian church worshipped.
...Any advice/input in greatly appreciated."

OK, why no sing the very poetic ancient Syrian hymns from the first ever Christian song book, the Odes of Solomon (100-200 AD)? These songs are hard to date definitively, but the lower date limit makes them candidates for songs sung by the community of the Fourth Gospel--you know, Christians who actually knew John!

The Odes Project – The First Christian Hymnal

OK, the melodies provided on this site can't be traced to the early church; so I suggest you read the translation to get an idea of how the first and second century Syrian Christians worshiped. Bear in mind, though, that what scans poetically in Syriac does not scan as well in English translation. What we need is a joint venture between poets and translators to create paraphrases that flow poetically. I find these lyrics refreshingly unique in their wording and quite conducive to releasing high worship emotions.

Hi deadworm,

I appreciate that everyone has their own particular 'tastes' in how they like to express their personal worship, and that's fine with me. However, I would rebut some of your historical reasoning. First, as regards the 'early' christians, we really don't have any evidence of how the very first gatherings used the time while they were gathered. We do know that they practiced communion, but as to whether or not they did any singing or giving of some sort of praise through song, we don't know. We do know that Jesus and his disciples sang as they went out to the Mount of Olives after the first communion was shared, but I don't hold that as a 'worship' service. So, I find it difficult, at best, to really determine and understand how exactly the fellowship of believers between 60 A.D and 100 A.D. actually spent their time together.

Secondly, to base such things on 'how the Jews did it' doesn't really give us much help either. We all know that the Jews didn't then, and still don't, get it, for the most part. God regularly railed against their apparent piousness, while their hearts were far from Him. So, I'm not sure that one saying, "Well, this is how the Jews did it", is really satisfying evidence that such a practice is honoring to God, as He sees it.

Just my personal thoughts concerning such evidence.

God bless you,
IN Christ, Ted