How are people actually saved?

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Bruno
Yes, faith is a gift, but just like with ANY gift, one has a choice to keep it, or reject it.

Is that what you did?  I'm not talking about "keeping" or "rejecting" any particular interpretation of Scripture.  I'm talking about your faith that Christ died for your sins.  Can you honestly say that it was a struggle for you to decide whether He did? 

Jesus died for ALL humans, not just for a chosen few. Your belief makes me think of Hitler who selected his chosen few to be the "elite" of human race. Look where it got him.

Yeah.  Nice.  I think you've used this whole "Hitler" thing when describing my views before.  It wasn't very godly then either.

God bless

 

[Blackhawk]

I think we all (myself included) need to remember that our posts can be taken out of context and out of the Christian love that produced them much easier than we think. The written word seems to be misinterpreted much even if one takes great care in the wording of a post. It is just something to remember when we post and get a post.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Blackhawk
Now reformanist I think that we definitely have to believe and confess like Romans states in order to be saved. That we are only saved until we do that. I believe the Bible is clear on this. However I also believe that how we get to this point is different. Yes we do have to have faith to be saved but we get the oppurtnity for that faith from God. Now you know we debate over how God gives us that faith and if we can reject God etc. But when I answered the question I was thinking of what I said first and not how you answered the question. now possibly we can debate more about how we get that faith which is what I see you doing with others although I would rather call our discussions not debates but truth finding missions because we are both seeking truth.

Well, putting faith in God is definitely part of regeneration.  I just think it's unbiblical to say that we put faith in God that is of ourselves and for doing so God rewards us with salvation.  Faith is a gift from God.  Not only that, it's an efficacious gift.  If someone has saving faith to put in God, it's because God gave it to them.  If someone does not have faith to put in God, it's because God didn't give it to them.  I'm not saying He's at fault.  He was not obligated to save any of us.  The fact that He does shows His mercy, not any unfairness. 

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Bruno
This is NOT a fact. My intention was not to apply your view is not beneficial. (I appologize if it appears like that.)

No problem.  It's not like I've been being godly either.  I should be concentrating on my own behavior instead of looking to correct the behavior of others.

What I am trying to understand is, if you believe that someone is not going to get saved no matter what you tell them, why bother?

Who said I had any clue who would get saved??  I don't make those kinds of judgments.  If I encounter someone that I think is not regenerate I just assume that they will be.  I live by the belief that we are all in the family of God and He will be the one to decide who is not.  It would be pointless for me to assume I knew who is and is not God's elect.  I'd be wrong.

God bless

 

[Julie]

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 20:21
Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 5
1   Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

 

[devoted]

Originally posted by Julie
"As a Catholic, we NEVER said this prayer. And yet, we STILL accepted Jesus as our savior. "
How or by doing what, did you accept Him?

 

 

Faith Julie, we accept him in faith, the same way any body does, but it is faith, not an emtional high that comes from an inspiring sermon.

 

[Bruno]

Originally posted by Reformationist
Is that what you did?  I'm not talking about "keeping" or "rejecting" any particular interpretation of Scripture.  I'm talking about your faith that Christ died for your sins.  Can you honestly say that it was a struggle for you to decide whether He did? 

Yeah.  Nice.  I think you've used this whole "Hitler" thing when describing my views before.  It wasn't very godly then either. 

I know I have a choice to reject His gift and I know how to. My choice is to keep it.

For the record, I have not used this "Hitler" thing with you before.

 

[devoted]

Originally posted by Julie
So Vegan, a Catholic receives Jesus Christ through a cookie and fermented wine? And not by faith?

 

This is too absolutly ignorant for me to comment on, you all should learn first what you rebuke.

 

[Bruno]

Originally posted by devoted
 
This is too absolutly ignorant for me to comment on, you all should learn first what you rebuke.

 

Then why did you comment??

 

[devoted]

Vegan,

Yes I am Catholic and I have found Jesus with in his Church so how do you figure that? I am on fire alive in love with the lord and I didn't have to leave to find him.

It saddens me because this happens too often and unnecessarily, that Catholics feel they have to leave the Church to have a relationship with Jesus.

I will not comment on how we are saved because you ask that Catholic do not, but just know that the Catholic Church never says you are not saved by faith. If you do not know this then you don't know Catholicism.

I will pray for all of you on this board who left the Church for something less, not more, that the Holy Spirit will lead you to learn what your Church really teaches. As a Catholic, I can only give you my word that what you hear from all these non Catholics is nothing but anti Catholic rhetoric and nothing more, this is not a true representation of what we believe, please find this out for your self.

What saddens me the most is that some felt the need to congratulate you for leaving as if it was some sort of false religion you were into.

 

[hugoguttman]

Hello:
Just as many people have said... neither the belief nor the prayer will make you save. IT IS YOUR FAITH ON THE LORD THAT WILL BRING YOU TO LIFE. I agree with lambslove. Christian believe in Jesus, Catholic people believe in Jesus, Musslims Know Him... even demons believe in Jesus and are afraid...
The Prayer... I can say that prayer without my heart on my hands and without faith... FAITH IS THE WORD.
Congratulations and dont worry about this too much. Even when I accepted Jesus´Sacrifice used to say Now What? And He will bring you truth to your life... step by step... God bless you.
Pax.
Hugo.

 

[devoted]

Originally posted by Bruno
 

Then why did you comment??

 

Because it was highly offensive and un called for and not to mention ridiculously un true, that's why. Somebody has to defend Jesus around here.

Just think about for a sec, Catholic hear attacks on Mary, attacks on Jesus in the Eucharist, don't you understand to us this is our Mother, this is our lord truly present. How would you feel if you hear some ridiculous comment about your parents? Would you not be offended and want to defend them?

You may never had the privilege of believing in the real presence as a Catholic but that does not mean that he is not present and for the Catholic that do believe, this is serious to us. Offending our beliefs is like offending a member of our family, this is how personal our relationship with him is.

 

[Bruno]

devoted, it was of your own free choice that you decided to come to a thread that clearly said: "Non-Catholics only"  Correct?

So please don't complain about what you read here. You have plenty of other threads to do that on.

 

[devoted]

I can live with that Bruno, just know that I will draw my sword and shield any place for Jesus.

 

[hugoguttman]

Mod hat on***

I have read the posts since my last one and I think everyone needs to cool it. Both sides of this argument are being combative and argumenative. Both sides are not showing patience or kindness or gentleness to the other side. We can debate but let's debate as Christians.

Mod hat off***

BlackHawk... BlackHawk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have something to tell you!!!!!!!!!!

Blessed are the peacemakers,
_______for they will be called sons of God.

Pax.
Hugo.

 

[vegan]

Originally posted by devoted
Vegan,

Yes I am Catholic and I have found Jesus with in his Church so how do you figure that? I am on fire alive in love with the lord and I didn't have to leave to find him.

How do I figure that? Well, I did say Catholics who have faith are saved.... so, no argument here.

Originally posted by devoted

I will pray for all of you on this board who left the Church for something less, not more, that the Holy Spirit will lead you to learn what your Church really teaches.

Something less?  Notice I never put down the Catholic Church.  Notice that I had harsh words for those who put down Catholics.  I would appreciate the same consideration. 

Originally posted by devoted

What saddens me the most is that some felt the need to congratulate you for leaving as if it was some sort of false religion you were into.

I think, but I am not sure, they were congratulating me for being saved.

 

 

[Bruno]

Originally posted by devoted
I can live with that Bruno, just know that I will draw my sword and shield any place for Jesus.

That is good to know. There is nothing more important in my life than Jesus Christ, so anyone who stands by Him, is a friend of mine.

 

 

[devoted]

[[[Something less? Notice I never put down the Catholic Church. Notice that I had harsh words for those who put down Catholics. I would appreciate the same consideration. ]]]

I am not putting you down, I am pointing out that you will be going from believeing something is real to something only being a symbol, that's less not more. (I am referring to the Eucharist)

 

[BuffPansy]

And so again, we see the folly of man in denominations, and why Paul said in 1 Cointhians 1:10, 'Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, the you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgement.' But now look at us, we are, instead of only being assosiated with Jesus Himself, say, 'I am Baptist,' or 'I am Catholic,' or 'I am Methodist.' Look at how pathetic we have made ourselves. We become enemies towards one another, all because of a difference in denomination. How sad. We follow not Christ, but our own feelings and beliefs. May God have mercy on us all.

 

[hugoguttman]

Relax!!! Relax!!!
I think we are not going to fight about it, ok? Paul I think I´ve told you.. I´m a lover not a fighter.... Upssss, sorry... I took the wrong way...
If somebody is Christian here, I bet for respect to beliefs of other brothers. If you follow catholic Faith, good for you, but sure you have to be respectful with our christian brothers too. I can imagine this kind of complain as if I get into Jew threads and insult them for not believing in Jesus Christ. No, no... NOOO!!!
I have something to tell you:
James says:

But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

And what did Jesus tell to us:

and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'

Pax.
Hugo.