How an Evangelical Creationist Accepted Evolution

[ViaCrucis]

If it's big enough.

No. That's not how it works, no matter how many times you keep repeating it.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[OldWiseGuy]

1) Of course the link a gave was to a summary of what the ToE is. The purpose was to demonstrate that it can be explained easily. Easy implies indeed some simplification. Do you want a full college course on paleontology?

I just can't reconcile the complexity, purposefulness, and beauty of the product with a mindless process. An explosion in a junkyard doesn't produce a 747.

 

[The Cadet]

It's based upon a false platform. Evolutionism doesn't work the way the video suggest.

Okay, which part of the video is wrong? It doesn't go into detail on things like horizontal gene transfer, sure, and it's a simplification, but that's the point - we simplify the complex model to get a closer look at particulars. This model leaves a lot out, but it is a useful demonstration of just how little a mutation needs to change for it to be useful for survival and to propagate through a population.

 

[sfs]

Any change which will enhance an organism's reproductive success in its environment will be selected for.

More precisely, any change that provides an advantage greater than one over twice the effective population size will be selected for (if it's an additive trait). That is, it will have a significantly greater probability of fixing than a random, neutral mutation.

 

[-57]

That is a poor answer (actually, no answer at all). Try again. Try to engage your brain when you make a reply.

I've noticed subductionzone really doesn't present answers....usually some form of ad-hominem expression.
I typically scroll right on by her post.

 

[-57]

Okay, which part of the video is wrong? It doesn't go into detail on things like horizontal gene transfer, sure, and it's a simplification, but that's the point - we simplify the complex model to get a closer look at particulars. This model leaves a lot out, but it is a useful demonstration of just how little a mutation needs to change for it to be useful for survival and to propagate through a population.

The model is no where's near reality. As i said before...there is only 8 places for the mutation to occur in the byte. You do know the human has 3.5 billion base pairs.

Your presentation of the extremely oversimplified video would be like me saying....if I can jump over a 1 foot high wall....I can easily jump over a 100 foot high wall.

 

[-57]

More precisely, any change that provides an advantage greater than one over twice the effective population size will be selected for (if it's an additive trait). That is, it will have a significantly greater probability of fixing than a random, neutral mutation.

Oh how on the surface...down on the coloring book level....you make it sound so simple. All the while forgetting the fact that it would take many mutations occurring in just the right place at just the right time to realize a new trait...such as the dolphins echo-location system. So far you have not demonstrated that that is even feasable.

 

[The Cadet]

The model is no where's near reality.

Do you understand the purpose of a model?

 

[-57]

1) Evolution isn't mysterious. It can be explained very easily.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_01

2) The ToE is a scientific theory. It doesn't requires faith. Just some time to study it. You are right about creationism though. That can only be accepted on faith.

3) A scientific theory is not accepted by some vague notion as "comfort in the mind", neither on the warm fuzzies it gives. It is acepted based on what the evidence says.

In a nutshell, OlWiseGuy, you have given the best post possible about why creationism and science are complete opposite.

So, I visited your page...and clicked my way to this page. They answered the question "What are some of the big questions that evolutionary biologists are trying to answer?"

Here's one of the answers...
How does evolution produce new and complex features?
Berkley admits.....THEY DON'T KNOW!!!!!

...but you all believe it happens.

 

[-57]

Do you understand the purpose of a model?

The purpose of the model is to fool you into thinking evolutionism actually works.

 

[The Cadet]

The purpose of the model is to fool you into thinking evolutionism actually works.

No, the purpose of the model is to demonstrate how even slight mutations propagate throughout a population.

 

[lasthero]

So, I visited your page...and clicked my way to this page. They answered the question "What are some of the big questions that evolutionary biologists are trying to answer?"

Here's one of the answers...
How does evolution produce new and complex features?
Berkley admits.....THEY DON'T KNOW!!!!!

Where did it say that?

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

Here's one of the answers...
How does evolution produce new and complex features?
Berkley admits.....THEY DON'T KNOW!!!!!

...but you all believe it happens.

I see you conveniently quote mined the website and then left out the links where those questions are examined.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_51
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_52
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_53
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_54

 

[pat34lee]

You don't even know what the words used by biologists mean.

Or possibly you don't. Try explaining and see.

 

[pat34lee]

Incorrect.
Incorrect.
I'm sorry, but you don't understand enough about evolution to criticize it.

Opinions. You haven't shown anything you know except to
contradict other people.

 

[pat34lee]

What's the 'kind barrier'?

That which you cannot breed past. Take dogs for example.
You can take a breed to the point of being infertile with
some other dogs, but they will never be a seperate species.
You will untlmately reach a limit past which you cannot
have them reproduce at all.

 

[-57]

No, the purpose of the model is to demonstrate how even slight mutations propagate throughout a population.

Well, sorry but it didn't acheive that purpose. It flunked for some of the reason I already presented.

 

[-57]

Where did it say that?

On that page it said this:


Some of the questions that evolutionary biologists are trying to answer include:

1. Does evolution tend to proceed slowly and steadily or in quick jumps?
   
   
2. Why are some clades very diverse and some unusually sparse?
   
   
3. How does evolution produce new and complex features?
   
   
4. Are there trends in evolution, and if so, what processes generate them?

 

[-57]

I see you conveniently quote mined the website and then left out the links where those questions are examined.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_51
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_52
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_53
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_54

From evo-53 link:

Since many of these complex traits seem to be adaptive, they are likely to have evolved in small steps through natural selection.

WOW!!!! Great answer. I'M CONVINCED!!!! Sign me up!!!

 

[lasthero]

That which you cannot breed past. Take dogs for example.
You can take a breed to the point of being infertile with
some other dogs, but they will never be a seperate species.
You will untlmately reach a limit past which you cannot
have them reproduce at all.

That doesn't really answer the question.

What is it? Exactly?

And how is taking a breed to the point where they can't interbreed not making them seperate species? That's how species are typically defined. If two animals not being able to interbreed doesn't make them a seperate species, what does?