House delays vote on RyanCare ... says there not enough votes to pass

Allandavid

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Why would you say that? I didn't say anything of the sort.

Yes you did. You said that the advocates of public health care describe it as "free". I challenge that claim, so you slide right up to the other end of the scale and ask if they would describe it as "costly".

No middle ground for you? Is it not possible that the advocates would argue that such schemes represent moderate costs, shared by all...?
 
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HannahT

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Why would you say that? I didn't say anything of the sort.

That is the signal the politicians send across the globe. You shouldn't be surprised at the reaction. If the government acts like a bunch of drama queens it must mean the population does as well.
 
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Allandavid

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Again, being over the top is what our politicians like to do. That's why people are so frustrated with both sides. It's either FREE or 'skyrocketing' costs that will break us. Nope, in our political land there is no in between. lol it sounds like you are used to your politicians being more down to earth or normal. I wish that was the case here, but it's not.

Watch: They will say this will save lives, or people will DIE due to this law if it passes. Being melodramatic is the thing to do today.

It's also why their trustworthy ratings are in the tank. Not one party, but all of them.

Do you doubt that there are people in your country whose lives have been prolonged through your small experiment with public health insurance? Whose health has been improved? Whose medical costs have been more manageable...?
 
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Albion

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Do you doubt that there are people in your country whose lives have been prolonged through your small experiment with public health insurance? Whose health has been improved? Whose medical costs have been more manageable...?

This is pointless banter. Some have been aided by Obamacare and some have been hurt by it.

There are as many people uninsured today as there were before the law was passed. And many who are technically insured are uninsured, practically speaking, since they cannot afford the deductibles in their policies and the doctors who were once available to them no longer are.
 
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Allandavid

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That's correct, but the rest of what you posted had nothing to do with my comment.


Albion said:
Do you imagine that they'd try to sell their idea to the public by saying that it'll be costly?

Yeah....sure....you said nothing like that............sure.

:doh::doh::doh:
 
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Allandavid

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This is pointless banter. Some have been aided by Obamacare and some have been hurt by it.

There are as many people uninsured today as there were before the law was passed. And many who are technically insured are uninsured, practically speaking, since they cannot afford the deductibles in their policies and the doctors who were once available to them no longer are.

So, all those people we hear from who say they have received life-extending treatment that they wouldn't have been able to afford otherwise, are what...lying I suppose?
 
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Albion

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Yeah....sure....you said nothing like that............sure.
Please stop with the goading. You tried to say that I can appreciate nothing that might be between free and costly. That's your ploy. It has nothing to do with anything I wrote and is simply a case of trying to put words into the other person's mouth.
 
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HannahT

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Do you doubt that there are people in your country whose lives have been prolonged through your small experiment with public health insurance? Whose health has been improved? Whose medical costs have been more manageable...?

We have had Medicaid the entire time - prior to the law that covers those that are not able to afford insurance. If they didn't have Medicaid? There are other options - and were at that time too. The young lady that lives with us had Cancer treatments prior to this law, and she didn't have insurance. After the law? She had followup treatment - which would have happened to anyway - on Obamacare Medicaid.

Quite honestly, they need to improve the medicaid program. Doctor's refuse for the most part to take it right now. She is on it now, and you have to make hours of phone calls to find one that is willing to see her. When they say you can have insurance, but that doesn't mean you have health care? It's true.

It was true PRIOR to this law as well. That's why I didn't understand WHY they didn't change how it works at the time Obamacare happened. They said they expanded the program in certain states that wanted to do that, but all they did was put more people on it. They threw poor people on a medical program that doesn't work, and called it healthcare.

At times you can't find a doctor that will take it. If we are going to have a program that is geared towards people like we have? We must have one that works. She can't even get a regular doctor now, because they might take the insurance for a time...and then they lose so much money they drop them as patients. We had our local hospital taking her for a while, and that included an oncologist for her cancer follow-up. Now, they won't take her anymore. It's a constant ongoing battle.

Manageable costs would be nice. They didn't fix that the last time either. When people approach improving the program, and making it better? It depends on what side politically is speaking. Why do I say that? You get two different answers depending on their leaning. You can't even discuss it. If you brought up how it is NOT working for the many that lost their insurance, and never got it back? They will tout how many others have insurance now instead - possibility for the first time. That wasn't the intent of the law - it was to expand the number of people. When you bring that up? You must hate poor people is the response.

This issue gets such immature responses it frustrates people no matter what your political leaning. It would have been a decent experiment if they didn't make it so partisan. I personally think Democrats could be an asset to improving the law, but they refuse too....because the Republicans are working on it. It's hard to get anything done when you have two sides acting like 8th graders in the middle of their drama.
 
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We have had Medicaid the entire time - prior to the law that covers those that are not able to afford insurance. If they didn't have Medicaid? There are other options - and were at that time too. The young lady that lives with us had Cancer treatments prior to this law, and she didn't have insurance. After the law? She had followup treatment - which would have happened to anyway - on Obamacare Medicaid.

Quite honestly, they need to improve the medicaid program. Doctor's refuse for the most part to take it right now. She is on it now, and you have to make hours of phone calls to find one that is willing to see her. When they say you can have insurance, but that doesn't mean you have health care? It's true.

It was true PRIOR to this law as well. That's why I didn't understand WHY they didn't change how it works at the time Obamacare happened. They said they expanded the program in certain states that wanted to do that, but all they did was put more people on it. They threw poor people on a medical program that doesn't work, and called it healthcare.

At times you can't find a doctor that will take it. If we are going to have a program that is geared towards people like we have? We must have one that works. She can't even get a regular doctor now, because they might take the insurance for a time...and then they lose so much money they drop them as patients. We had our local hospital taking her for a while, and that included an oncologist for her cancer follow-up. Now, they won't take her anymore. It's a constant ongoing battle.

Manageable costs would be nice. They didn't fix that the last time either. When people approach improving the program, and making it better? It depends on what side politically is speaking. Why do I say that? You get two different answers depending on their leaning. You can't even discuss it. If you brought up how it is NOT working for the many that lost their insurance, and never got it back? They will tout how many others have insurance now instead - possibility for the first time. That wasn't the intent of the law - it was to expand the number of people. When you bring that up? You must hate poor people is the response.

This issue gets such immature responses it frustrates people no matter what your political leaning. It would have been a decent experiment if they didn't make it so partisan. I personally think Democrats could be an asset to improving the law, but they refuse too....because the Republicans are working on it. It's hard to get anything done when you have two sides acting like 8th graders in the middle of their drama.
One reason is because there is so much red tape with Medicaid and they pay so little why would a doctor take it?
 
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HannahT

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One reason is because there is so much red tape with Medicaid and they pay so little why would a doctor take it?

Which is why I question WHY they didn't fix it last time.

Why dump MORE people into a program you know doesn't work - just to say you did something. They didn't. All they did was offer the program to more people knowing it doesn't work - just so they could say they gave something to the poor. That's outrageous.
 
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trunks2k

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Who cares about "personal taxes"? I have heard plenty of people who pay equal or more in only insurance than I pay in federal taxes (right around 700 a month). Those taxes also get us plenty of other services. That said, I pay about 89$ for my health plans through work.
And how much dos your company contribute?

I know my company contributed at least a couple hundred dollars a month on the health insurance I go through them. I submit that for people that currently get insurance through their employer, the added tax for any sort of universal government health insurance would be more than covered by the employer not having to pay insurance premiums.
 
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rambot

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No one who lives with socialized medicare would describe it as "free" but we would say that we don't directly pay for services.
\
And judging by the comparison by what I pay in tax and what some of y'all pay in premiums, I wouldn't even feel too bad about calling it "free".
 
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Belk

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Same here. But that doesn't mean that everyone else's insurance has to get screwed up.

If you (Or more correctly our representatives) could come up with a way for that to happen I am all for it. So far it has not seemed to come about and quite frankly I am getting tired of waiting. People are not getting the care they need while we dither around counting the dollars and cents and who pays what.
 
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NightHawkeye

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If you (Or more correctly our representatives) could come up with a way for that to happen I am all for it. So far it has not seemed to come about and quite frankly I am getting tired of waiting. People are not getting the care they need while we dither around counting the dollars and cents and who pays what.
You think you have it bad?

Have you heard about the VA ... the epitome of government run healthcare?
 
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Belk

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You think you have it bad?

No, I think I have it quite good. I have a government subsudize cadillac health care plan provided by my employer. The one who had it bad was my mother who had nothing for many years due to not making much money.

Have you heard about the VA ... the epitome of government run healthcare?

Nope. Never heard of it. I've heard of tri-care, medicare, and medicaid. Those are government run healthcare are they not?

But perhaps you would care to address the meat of my post?
 
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LoAmmi

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Have you heard about the VA ... the epitome of government run healthcare?

The VA really needs more funding in my opinion, with more oversight as to how it is run. Remove the waste and make it all about providing the best healthcare possible to our veterans who, in my opinion, deserve life-long free healthcare for what they did.
 
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rambot

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You think you have it bad?

Have you heard about the VA ... the epitome of government run healthcare?
Why is it the epitome of "government run healthcare"? As mentioned, 37 developed countries have some level of socialized care. HUGE government of whole countries have it. Many of them have pretty darn functional, if not perfect health systems.

But for some reason, the VA, who have to care from THE most traumatized and no doubt as a % of the whole population, have a FAR great issue of significant health challenges, THAT is the best example of government run health care?

No..... not really.
 
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