Hosea 3:1 "flagons of wine" or "raisin cakes"?

[brandplucked]

Hosea 3:1 “flagons of wine” or “raisin cakes”?

At a well known anti-King James Bible site the bible agnostics have put together a laundry list of what they call “Indisputable, universally recognized errors in the KJV”. You can see it here if you like.

"KJV Only" advocates refuted!

Every one of them has been examined and shot down as being pure silliness and baseless ignorance. Found among this laundry list is the word “baptism” that this particular Bible corrector thinks is an error found throughout the entire New Testament. Apparently he is unaware that almost every translation ever made, including the modern ones like the NKJV, NIV, NASB, ESV, NET, Holman etc. all read “baptism”.

Another one is where he tells us that the TR (Textus Receptus) does not read a certain way in Leviticus. He says: "sweet savour" Lev 6:21; 8:28; 17:6; 23:18 "soothing aroma" (KJV appeals to wrong senses- taste instead of smell in the TR).

Apparently this self appointed expert is blissfully unaware of the fact that the TR has absolutely nothing to do with the Old Testament, and is abysmally ignorant of his own English language.

See the refutation of this ridiculous claim of “error in the KJV” here:

smelled a sweet savor - Another King James Bible Believer


This particular Bible study will focus on his alleged error found in Hosea 3:1 where the King James Bible says “flagons of wine” and versions such as the NKJV, NIV, NASB, ESV have “raisin cakes”.

This Bible corrector writes: "flagon" 2 Sam 6:19; 1 Chron 16:3; SoS 2:5; Hosea 3:1 These verses contain the word "flagon" which is a fluted cup from which liquid is drunk. However, the Hebrew word is "ashishah" which has always meant raisins or raisin cakes. This is especially true in Hos 3:1 because raisin cakes were often offered to idols. This is an obvious error in translation.”

Let’s take a closer look to see if there is any merit to his claims or if he is just another Bible Babble Buffet promoter who has set up his own mind and understanding as his final authority.

The King James Bible says: “Then said the LORD unto me, Go yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress, according to the love of the LORD toward the children of Israel, who look to other gods, and love FLAGONS OF WINE.”

The NKJV reads: “Then the LORD said to me, “Go again, love a woman who is loved by a lover and is committing adultery, just like the love of the LORD for the children of Israel, who look to other gods and love THE RAISIN CAKES OF THE PAGANS.” (The words “of the pagans” are not found in any text.)

Daniel Wallace and company have “and love to offer raisin cakes to idols.” (Again, the words “offer” and “to idols” are not in any text.)

The NASB, ESV and Holman say “raisin cakes” and the NIV has “sacred raisin cakes”.

The Bible is Basic English says “they are lovers of grape-cakes” and the Douay-Rheims has “they love the husks of grapes”.

First of all, it should be pointed out that the word found in the Hebrew texts and the King James Bible for “wine” as in “flagons of wine” is geh-nahv #6025 and is translated as either grapes or wine, but not raisins. The word for raisins is an entirely different Hebrew word (tzim-moo-keem # 6778) and is found only 4 times and every time translated as “clusters of raisins” or “bunches of raisins” in 1 Samuel 25:18; 30:12, 2 Samuel 16:1 and 1 Chronicles 12:40.

The other word is where all the scholars go their separate ways and some translate it one way and others another and they do not agree with each other, as we shall soon see.

The Hebrew word translated as “flagons” in the King James Bible and in MANY other translations both in English and in foreign languages, is found only 4 times - 2 Samuel 6:19, 1 Chronicles 16:3, Song of Solomon 2:5 and here in Hosea 3:1. It is the word ashee-shah # 809.

Among the Bible translations that agree with the sense of the King James Bible in Hosea 3:1 and the other places (Some have “wine bottles” and others “wine pots” and some “flagons of wine”) are the following Bible translations: Wycliffe 1395, Coverdale 1535, the Great Bible 1540, Matthew’s Bible 1549, the Bishop’s Bible 1568, the Geneva Bible 1587, Webster’s 1833 translation, the Lesser Bible 1853, the Calvin Bible 1855, the 1936 Hebrew Publication Society translation “love flagons of wine”, the 2004 Hebrew Complete Tanach reads: “and love goblets of grapes.” the 2008 Torah Transliteration Scripture reads “and love flagons of wine”, the 1999 God’s First Truth has “and love the wine cans”, the Holy Scriptures Jubilee Bible 2000 and the KJV 21st Century Version 1994 and the Third Millenium Bible 1998 all read “and love flagons of wine”.

Among foreign language translation that agree with the King James Bible’s “flagons of wine” are Luther’s German Bible of 1545 - “Kanne Wein”, the Spanish Sagradas Escrituras of 1569, the Spanish Reina Valera 1865, Reina Valera of 1909, and the Reina Valera Gomez of 2004 - “y aman frascos de vino”, the Italian Conferenza Episcopale Italiana, the Italian Diodati 1649, the Riveduta 1927, the Nuova Diodati 1991, the French Martin of 1744 and the modern French KJB - “aiment les flacons de vin.” and the Modern Greek translation - “agapoosi phialas oinou” = love flagons of wine.

The Bible Commentators

John Calvin translates as does the King James Bible’s “flagons” and he comments: “And they love flagons of grapes. The Prophet, I doubt not, compares this rage to drunkenness”

Adam Clarke - “The flagons of wine were probably such as were used for libations, or drunk in idol feasts.”

John Wesley tersely comments: “Love the feasts of their idols, where they drink wine to excess.”

The Geneva Bible included a running commentary and says: “That is, gave themselves wholly to pleasure, and could not stop, as those that are given to drunkenness.”

Matthew Henry comments: “And they loved flagons of wine; they joined with idolaters because they lived merrily and drank hard; they had a kindness for other gods for the sake of the plenty of good wine with which they had been sometimes treated in their temples. Idolatry and sensuality commonly go together; those that make a god of their belly, as drunkards do, will easily be brought to make a god of any thing else. God's priests were to drink no wine when they went in to minister, and his Nazarites none at all. But the worshippers of other gods drank wine in bowls; nay, no less than flagons of wine would content them.”

Matthew Poole in his Commentary on the whole Bible says regarding Hosea 3:1 - “Love flagons of wine; loved the feasts of their idols, where they drank wine to excess, by too great measures, which, without dispute, was usual in the idol feasts, Amos ii. 8; 1 Cor. x. 21; or else these flagons of wine speak their loose, drunken, and riotous living.”


Bible agnostics and “scholars” will continue to disagree with each other and each man will set up his own mind and understanding as his final authority, but the Bible believer is convinced that God has indeed preserved His complete and infallible words in the greatest Bible ever put in print, carried to the far ends of the earth and believed by thousands to be the 100% true words of God - the King James Holy Bible.

Will Kinney


Return to Articles - articles - Another King James Bible Believer

 

[benelchi]

ענב/anav in Hebrew always refers to grapes whether fresh or dried. It never refers by itself to wine. The phrase דם ענבים/"blood of grapes" can refer to wine but this is not the phrase used in Hosea 3:1. Not even the KJV translates this word as wine anywhere else in Scripture. They do correctly translate this word as "grapes" in many other verses including Hosea 9:10.

אשישה/cake was mistranslated by in the late 16th/early 17th century because it was a word that was poorly understood because of its limited use in the Hebrew bible. Subsequent reviews of other Hebrew literature, and Greek literature (because this phrase was translated into Greek in the 2nd century BC) have shown this to be an error. Here is a picture: food.walla.co.il/?w=/1114/1630986/638784/5/@@/media

The phrase in Hos. 3:1 is אשישי ענבים/cakes of raisins i.e. raisins because grapes whether fresh or dried always shrivel into raisins when cooked in a cake.

The KJV is a good translation but it is not without error, and this is a good example of one of those errors.

 

[brandplucked]

And thus we have your humble opinion, that differs from many other Bible translators.

Will K

 

[benelchi]

And thus we have your humble opinion, that differs from many other Bible translators.

Will K

"Many" is an extreme exaggeration. There were a few translators from the 16th and 17th century who were puzzled by this word. Modern translations are uniformly in agreement.

And if you are in Israel today and order אשישות you will get cakes and not wine. Hebrew speakers today are not confused about what this word means.

 

[brandplucked]

"Many" is an extreme exaggeration. There were a few translators from the 16th and 17th century who were puzzled by this word. Modern translations are uniformly in agreement.

And if you are in Israel today and order אשישות you will get cakes and not wine. Hebrew speakers today are not confused about what this word means.

Maybe you should set these other native Hebrew speakers straight then.

the 1936 Hebrew Publication Society translation “love flagons of wine”, the 2004 Hebrew Complete Tanach reads: “and love goblets of grapes.” the 2008 Torah Transliteration Scripture reads “and love flagons of wine”,

Will K

 

[benelchi]

Maybe you should set these other native Hebrew speakers straight then.

The 1936 Hebrew Publication Society translation “love flagons of wine”, the 2004 Hebrew Complete Tanach reads: “and love goblets of grapes.” the 2008 Torah Transliteration Scripture reads “and love flagons of wine”,

Will K

And you know that native Hebrew speakers translated these versions how?

The 1936 Hebrew Publication Society translation is an obscure translation, I can find absolutely no information about who translated it. Note: the Jewish publication society is the normal publishing society for Jewish bibles and the JPS reads "cakes of raisins"

The 2004 Complete Tanach was a paraphrase by Rabbi A. J. Rosenberg. Rabbi Rosenberg attributes his success the fact that he is native English speaker, he learned Hebrew in a New York Yeshivah. His translations are not considered very good and are often criticized. Here is one example:

The Judaic Press Tanach with Rashi translates more or less correctly (even if using 19th century lingo) as "Slavish," citing Abraham Berliner (1833-195) who published the first critical edition of Rashi in 1866. Who is responsible for the Judaica Press Tanach with Rashi? Rabbi A.J. Rosenberg. Who is Rabbi A.J. Rosenberg?

If an Artscroll associated rabbinic scholar plainly knew how to translate לשן כנען then why the error in Artscroll's edition? Clearly this isn't esoteric maskilische knowledge.
​

The 2008 Torah Transliteration is a project undertaken by Yerusha Yanit Shen. She speaks Chinese and English and cannot speak or read Hebrew. As the name of this work implies she is transliterating Hebrew names in the bible i.e. she began with an English bible and is changing place and people names into English transliterations of the Hebrew names i.e. Y'shua instead of Jesus, Barashet instead of Genesis, etc... She has a link on her sight to the Software program she is using to make these transliterations because she cannot read the Hebrew texts themselves. Note: There are several other Mesianic Jewish transliteration projects, all produced by people who do not speak or read Hebrew. Even though most of them read "cakes of raisins," they are still horribly bad translations.


I am sorry, but there is no evidence that any of these versions were produced by native Hebrew speakers. More importantly, there is actually no evidence that any of these versions were produced by Hebrew scholars (native Hebrew speakers or not).