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Horoscopes

JasperJackson

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[I considered posting this in the "erogenous zones" thread but thought it best to start a new thread]

So what are your thoughts about horoscopes/astrology? I think its ok to use horoscopes for some guidance but we should keep our focus primarily on God. Here's why...

At the start of 2007 (before I was a Christian) I read my horoscope for the coming year. Among other things it said: "don't make any firm plans before Jupiter aligns with Pluto in Sagittarius on December 11 when a potentially life-changing event may occur". And it was December 11 that a friend of mine started sharing her faith with me and thus began my journey of coming to Christ.

Also, the first worshippers of Jesus were astrologers. The Magi followed a star to Bethlehem.

I don't think horoscopes are really about predicting the future, but inferring from the past. For example, I'm sure there have been times in the past where Jupiter and Pluto had been aligned and that life-changing events for people had happened at the time.

Like I said I think horoscopes can provide some guidance so long as they don't replace God. And unfortunately some people put too much faith in them and don't know God at all.

Any thoughts?
 

JonMiller

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I treat it as in the same category as magic/divination/occult; and I choose to worship Almighty God alone.

This, but more stupid.

I think that occasionally the occult actually is evil spirits/etc being involved. I think that horroscopes is pretty much always just silly superstitution.

JM
 
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radhead

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I know there is truth in them. But there is a reason why God doesn't want us to look to them. Just like Myers Briggs. If people make life choices based upon these natural systems, it's like they have no faith in God.

These types of things are a part of the "natural" man, which is supposed to be dying away once we become new creatures in Christ.
 
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DarcyWillow

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Please read:
The Problems of Astrology

The claims that astrologists have made have drawn severe criticism from the scientific community. In September, 1975, 186 prominent American scientists, along with 18 Nobel Prize winners, spoke out against "the pretentious claims of astrological charlatans," saying, among other things, that there is no scientific basis whatsoever for the assumption that the stars foretell events and influence lives. The following are some of the reasons the practice of astrology must be rejected as both unscientific and unbiblical.

The Problem of Authority

Astrologists are victims of their own system. They cannot have the objective authority necessary to explain our own world. If everything is predetermined in conjunction with the zodiac, then how can the astrologists get outside of that fatalism to accurately observe it?
What if the astrologists themselves are predetermined to explain everything by astrology? There is no way they can prove their system if they are pawns in that same system. By contrast, as Christians we can test our own world view because someone, Jesus Christ, has come from outside the "system" to tell us, objectively, what our system is like.

Conflicting Systems

The problem of authority in astrology is graphically revealed when one realizes there are many systems of astrology which are diametrically opposed to each other. Astrologers in the West would not interpret a horoscope the same way a Chinese astrologer would.
Even in the West, there is no unanimity of interpretation among astrologers, seeing that some contend for eight zodiac signs rather than 12 while others argue for 14 or even 24 signs of the zodiac.
With these different systems employed by astrologers, an individual may go to two different astrologers and receive two totally opposed courses of behavior for the same day! This is not only a possibility, it is also a reality, for a simple comparison between astrological forecasts in daily newspapers will often reveal contradictions.

Earth-Centered Viewpoint

Astrology is based upon the premise that the planets revolve around the earth, known as the "geocentric theory." This theory was shown to be in error by Copernicus, who proved that the planets revolve around the sun, not the earth. This is known as the "heliocentric theory."
Since astrology is based upon the refuted geocentric theory, its reliability is destroyed. Since the basic assumption is false, all conclusions, even if feebly reinterpreted by today's knowledge and drawn from this assumption, are likewise false.


Missing Planets

One of the major misconceptions that is the basis of astrology concerns the number of planets in our solar system. Most astrological charts are based upon the assumption that there are seven planets in our solar system (including the sun and the moon).
In ancient times, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto were unobservable with the naked eye. Consequently, astrologers based their system upon the seven planets they believed revolved around the earth. Since that time, it has been proven that the sun, not the earth, is the center of the solar system and that three other planets exist in our solar system.
According to the astrological theory, that the position of planets has a definite influence upon human behavior and events, these three previously undiscovered planets should also have an influence upon behavior and must be considered to cast an exact horoscope. Since they usually are not considered, the astrological theory breaks down, for no accurate horoscope could be charted without considering all the planets and their supposed influence.

Twins

A constant source of embarrassment for astrologers is the birth of twins.
Since they are born at exactly the same time and place, they should have the same destiny. Unfortunately, this is not the case, for experience shows us that two people who are born at the same time can live totally different lives. One may turn out to be very successful, while the other ends up a failure. The fact that twins do not live out the same lives shows another flaw in the theory.

Limited Perspective

A serious problem with astrology is its limited perspective. Astrology was born in an area close to the equator and did not take into consideration those living in latitudes where the zodiac signs do not appear for the same periods of time.

As Michel Gauquelin points out, "Astrology, begun in latitudes relatively close to the equator, made no provisions for the possibility that no planet may be in sight (in the higher latitudes) for several weeks in a row" (Michel Gauquelin, The Cosmic Clocks, Chicago, IL: Henry Regnery Co., 1967, p. 78).
This means those living in the higher latitudes in places such as Alaska, Norway, Finland and Greenland have no planetary influence in their lives, for it is almost impossible to calculate what point of the zodiac is rising on the horizon above the Arctic circle.

Since this is the case, one of the basic pillars of astrology now crumbles, as Van Buskirk points out, "Astrology can hardly be scientifically based on its own premise that the microcosm reflects the influence of the macrocosm, when one of the microcosms (man) above the 66th latitude is left uninfluenced by the cosmos" (Michael Van Buskirk, op. cit., p. 9).

No Scientific Verification

Probably the most damaging criticism that can be leveled at astrological prediction is the fact that its scientific value is nil. Paul Couderc, astronomer at the Paris Observatory, concluded after examining the horoscopes of 2,817 musicians:

The position of the sun has absolutely no musical significance. The musicians are born throughout the entire year on a chance basis. No sign of the zodiac or fraction of a sign favors or does not favor them.

We conclude: The assets of scientific astrology are equal to zero, as is the case with commercialized astrology. This is perhaps unfortunate, but it is a fact (Paul Couderc, L’Astrologie, "Que Sais-je?" 508; 3rd ed.; Paris: Presses Universitaires de France, 1961, pp. 86-89, cited by John Warwick Montgomery, Principalities and Powers, p. 106).

The statistics to support the predictive claims of astrologers are simply not there.

Incorrect Time of Reckoning

Another major problem with astrology concerns the fact that horoscopes are cast from the time of birth, not from the time of conception. Since all the hereditary factors are determined at conception, it should logically follow that the planets could begin influencing the person’s destiny immediately after conception.
The problem is, of course, trying to accurately determine when conception took place, which is nearly impossible. However, if the planets do exert an influence over a person's fate, it should start at the time of conception rather than the time of birth.

The Shifting Constellations

Astrology is unscientific because of the fact of the precession or the shifting of constellations. Boa elaborates on this problem:

The early astronomers were not aware of precession and therefore failed to take it into account in their system. The twelve signs of the zodiac originally correspond with the twelve constellations of the same names. But due to precession, the constellations have shifted about 300 in the last 2,000 years. This means that the constellation of Virgo is now in the sign of Libra, the constellation of Libra is now in the sign of Scorpio and so on. Thus, if a person is born on September 1, astrologers would call him a Virgo (the sign the sun is in at that date), but the sun is actually in the constellation Leo at that date. So there are two different zodiacs: one which slowly moves (the sidereal zodiac) and one which is stationary (the tropical zodiac). Which zodiac should be used? (Kenneth Boa, Cults, World Religions, and You, Victor Books, 1977, pp. 124, 125).

Furthermore, no constellation ever recurs. As Koch points out, "The most weighty factor is the astronomer's objection that no constellation in the sky ever recurs. Hence, astrological interpretations lack every basis of comparison. Hence, solstitial horoscopy rests on presuppositions which are scientifically untenable" (Kurt Koch, Christian Counseling and Occultism, Grand Rapids: Kregel Pub., 1973, p. 94).

The Bible and Astrology

The Bible warns people against relying on astrologers and astrology:

You are wearied with your many counsels; let now the astrologers, those who prophesy by the stars, those who predict by the new moons, stand up and save you from what will come upon you. Behold, they have become like stubble, fire bums them; they cannot deliver themselves from the power of the flame... there is none to save you (Isaiah 47: 13-15, NASB).

Other warnings can be found in such verses as Jeremiah 10:2: "Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of Heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them." Elsewhere, the Scripture says, "And beware, lest you lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, and be drawn away and worship them and serve them" (Deuteronomy 4:19, NASB).

The Book of Daniel gives us a comparison between the astrologers and those dedicated to the true and living God. Chapter 1:20 reveals that Daniel and his three friends would be ten times better in matters of wisdom and understanding than the astrologers because they served the living and true God rather than the stars. When the king had a dream, the astrologers could not give an explanation for it, but rather God alone had the answer, for it is only He who can reveal the future (see Daniel 2: 27, 28).
The Scriptures make it clear that any type of astrological practice is severely condemned by God, for it attempts to understand the future through occultic means rather than through God's divinely inspired Word. The fatalistic approach of astrology, which says our lives are determined by the stars, is contradicted by Scripture, which holds us responsible for our destiny. Astrology and Christianity are simply incompatible.

http://www.greatcom.org/resources/handbook_of_todays_religions/02chap01/default.htm
 
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The_Dan_x

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I think many people read into horoscopes what they want to hear. Many of them are just broad generalizations and predictions that can be applied to almost situation.


Bingo. This pretty much sums up what I was going to say. Horoscopes are usually very vague and purposely made that way so people can make nearly anything out of them.
 
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AuburnMeg

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A lot of people say that their horoscope was accurate, but I sum that up to the fact that horoscopes are usually pretty broad, coincidence, and self-fulfilling prophecy. They read the horoscope, exepect something to happen, and then they make it happen to fit their expectations.
 
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overit

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I will ocassionaly read them for fun...but I don't go past that or put faith in it or go into divination-card reading etc...that's where I personally draw the line. I think there is some truth to it or else God wouldn't have warned us against it honestly.

Just like the tide/moon can affect many things also. I think it's no use to put our faith or guide our lives on these things (horoscopes). Personally-I'm a "virgo" but there are many things about the character of virgo that i don't fit with at all.
 
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wallaby

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i think horoscopes/astrology are useless and in most cases harmless. i dont think its somehow a sin to read your horoscope. i have a problem with what darcywillow posted, though, so im going to make an effort to refute things i feel are inaccurate.
 
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wallaby

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now, dont get me wrong here, i think astrology is dumb, but the sources quoted to debunk it were equally stupid.

There is no way they can prove their system if they are pawns in that same system. By contrast, as Christians we can test our own world view because someone, Jesus Christ, has come from outside the "system" to tell us, objectively, what our system is like.
jesus christ lived and died as a human being. having the imbued knowledge of god doesnt somehow mean hes outside the system of the universe.

The problem of authority in astrology is graphically revealed when one realizes there are many systems of astrology which are diametrically opposed to each other. Astrologers in the West would not interpret a horoscope the same way a Chinese astrologer would.
Even in the West, there is no unanimity of interpretation among astrologers, seeing that some contend for eight zodiac signs rather than 12 while others argue for 14 or even 24 signs of the zodiac.
With these different systems employed by astrologers, an individual may go to two different astrologers and receive two totally opposed courses of behavior for the same day! This is not only a possibility, it is also a reality, for a simple comparison between astrological forecasts in daily newspapers will often reveal contradictions.
total fallacy. you cant say that just because there are many contradictory sects of christianity that christianity cant be right.

Astrology is based upon the premise that the planets revolve around the earth, known as the "geocentric theory." This theory was shown to be in error by Copernicus, who proved that the planets revolve around the sun, not the earth. This is known as the "heliocentric theory."
Since astrology is based upon the refuted geocentric theory, its reliability is destroyed. Since the basic assumption is false, all conclusions, even if feebly reinterpreted by today's knowledge and drawn from this assumption, are likewise false.
do you have evidence of this claim? ive never heard it made before, and ive never heard astrologers claim the planets revovle around the earth. in addition, the planets DO make circles around the earth as they orbit the sun. the only distiction is the center of gravity for their revolution. astrology doesnt claim to be science, it just claims to be right.
One of the major misconceptions that is the basis of astrology concerns the number of planets in our solar system. Most astrological charts are based upon the assumption that there are seven planets in our solar system (including the sun and the moon).
In ancient times, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto were unobservable with the naked eye. Consequently, astrologers based their system upon the seven planets they believed revolved around the earth. Since that time, it has been proven that the sun, not the earth, is the center of the solar system and that three other planets exist in our solar system.
if planets arent included, they obviously dont matter, apparently. that doesnt somehow disprove astrology.
A constant source of embarrassment for astrologers is the birth of twins.
Since they are born at exactly the same time and place, they should have the same destiny. The fact that twins do not live out the same lives shows another flaw in the theory.
to my knowledge, astrology doesnt claim to lay your whole life out in front of you or limit what you can or cant do.

A serious problem with astrology is its limited perspective. Astrology was born in an area close to the equator and did not take into consideration those living in latitudes where the zodiac signs do not appear for the same periods of time.
ones astrological life is determined by how the planetary bodies align from one certain perspective. that doesnt mean people living in other perspectives are somehow discounted from the truths revealed in the primary place of observation.

Probably the most damaging criticism that can be leveled at astrological prediction is the fact that its scientific value is nil.
probably the most damaging criticism that can be leveled at christianity is the fact that its scientific value is nil.

Another major problem with astrology concerns the fact that horoscopes are cast from the time of birth, not from the time of conception. Since all the hereditary factors are determined at conception, it should logically follow that the planets could begin influencing the person’s destiny immediately after conception.
The problem is, of course, trying to accurately determine when conception took place, which is nearly impossible. However, if the planets do exert an influence over a person's fate, it should start at the time of conception rather than the time of birth.
um, astrology isnt based on hereditary factors, therefore the whole DNA thing is thrown out the window. also, maybe astrology does make predictions about the life of the fetus (i have no idea). it is plausible that the date of birth is astrologically projected.

Astrology is unscientific because of the fact of the precession or the shifting of constellations.
astrology is based on observations starting at day 0 for constellatory shift. they created a rigid mode of interpretation that doesnt need to take into account shifting constellations.

You are wearied with your many counsels; let now the astrologers, those who prophesy by the stars, those who predict by the new moons, stand up and save you from what will come upon you. Behold, they have become like stubble, fire bums them; they cannot deliver themselves from the power of the flame... there is none to save you (Isaiah 47: 13-15, NASB).
this says that astrology cannot save people from the doom of babylon and implies that the ancient methods of astrology do not glean truth from the sky. its not even talking about modern astrology.
Other warnings can be found in such verses as Jeremiah 10:2: "Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of Heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them."
finally a passage speaking of the foolishness of looking at the stars to tell your future. do note, however, it is not labeled as sinful, just foolish.
Elsewhere, the Scripture says, "And beware, lest you lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, and be drawn away and worship them and serve them" (Deuteronomy 4:19, NASB).
astrology is not worshipping astral bodies.
The Book of Daniel gives us a comparison between the astrologers and those dedicated to the true and living God. Chapter 1:20 reveals that Daniel and his three friends would be ten times better in matters of wisdom and understanding than the astrologers because they served the living and true God rather than the stars. When the king had a dream, the astrologers could not give an explanation for it, but rather God alone had the answer, for it is only He who can reveal the future (see Daniel 2: 27, 28).
calling godly wisdom wiser than astrology isnt saying astrology is sinful.

 
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