Honouring him and disagreeing with Paul the apostle's tact.

[GoldenKingGaze]

In the book of Acts Paul the apostle addresses a governor and by him is a sorcerer, and Paul in the Spirit blinds him. Good one. Paul is warned by Agabus about being captured, and Paul insists on going. It leaves the fellows in tears. Some time later Paul may have met the Emperor. It may have been Nero, we now know was a psychopath. Paul referred to some as having consciences seared as by a hot iron. I think he died before his time, and could have apprenticed another Timothy, if he used a different tactic. Paul wanted to be with God for himself and with us for us. I do not believe Paul the apostle was infallible. I honour his inner struggle and his wisdom, but disagree that he treated Nero so well. Because Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit, he died. Nero led to millions of deaths? He should have at least gone blind.

NKJV Acts 13:1-12

Paul and Barnabas Are Sent to the Gentiles​

1Now in the church that was at Antioch there were certain prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away.

Preaching in Cyprus​

4So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia, and from there they sailed to Cyprus. 5And when they arrived in Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews. They also had John as their assistant.


6Now when they had gone through [a]the island to Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew whose name was Bar-Jesus, 7who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man. This man called for Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God. 8But Elymas the sorcerer (for so his name is translated) Acts 13 NKJVwithstood them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. 9Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him 10and said, “O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord? 11And now, indeed, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you shall be blind, not seeing the sun for a time.”

And immediately a dark mist fell on him, and he went around seeking someone to lead him by the hand. 12Then the proconsul believed, when he saw what had been done, being astonished at the teaching of the Lord.

 

[Clare73]

In the book of Acts Paul the apostle addresses a governor and by him is a sorcerer, and Paul in the Spirit blinds him. Good one. Paul is warned by Agabus about being captured, and Paul insists on going. It leaves the fellows in tears. Some time later Paul may have met the Emperor. It may have been Nero, we now know was a psychopath. Paul referred to some as having consciences seared as by a hot iron. I think he died before his time, and could have apprenticed another Timothy, if he used a different tactic. Paul wanted to be with God for himself and with us for us. I do not believe Paul the apostle was infallible.

Are any of the other apostles infallible?

I honour his inner struggle and his wisdom, but disagree that he treated Nero so well. Because Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit, he died. Nero led to millions of deaths? He should have at least gone blind.

And what qualifies you to judge God's apostle of Jesus Christ (1 Co 1:1, 2 Co 1:1, Gal 1:1, Eph 1:1, etc., etc.)?

NKJV Acts 13:1-12

Paul and Barnabas Are Sent to the Gentiles​

1Now in the church that was at Antioch there were certain prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away.

Preaching in Cyprus​

4So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia, and from there they sailed to Cyprus. 5And when they arrived in Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews. They also had John as their assistant.


6Now when they had gone through [a]the island to Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew whose name was Bar-Jesus, 7who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man. This man called for Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God. 8But Elymas the sorcerer (for so his name is translated) Acts 13 NKJVwithstood them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. 9Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him 10and said, “O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord? 11And now, indeed, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you shall be blind, not seeing the sun for a time.”

And immediately a dark mist fell on him, and he went around seeking someone to lead him by the hand. 12Then the proconsul believed, when he saw what had been done, being astonished at the teaching of the Lord.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Are any of the other apostles infallible?

And what qualifies you to judge God's apostle of Jesus Christ (1 Co 1:1, 2 Co 1:1, Gal 1:1, Eph 1:1, etc., etc.)?

I do not think anyone but God is infallible, even the angels could not judge and separate the righteous from the wicked.

Today we have the benefit of hindsight. Italy was damaged by it's emperors. The missions were retarded. Agabus did not think Paul's plan was all good.

 

[Clare73]

I do not think anyone but God is infallible, even the angels could not judge and separate the righteous from the wicked.

Today we have the benefit of hindsight. Italy was damaged by it's emperors. The missions were retarded. Agabus did not think Paul's plan was all good.

The apostles are authoritative to the church.
What they write is God's truth.

Jesus did not write anything.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

The apostles are authoritative to the church.
What they write is God's truth.

Jesus did not write anything.

I believe everything according to Peter and Paul and Jesus will judge and reward them according to their obedience, works and writings...
It is of note that Paul corrected Peter and Barnabas for hypocrisy. The mirror of God's word through the apostles, is a dim mirror compared to the glory of God. There are two places mentioning a mirror, 1 Corinthians 13:12 and 2 Corinthians 3:18.

 

[Clare73]

I believe everything according to Peter and Paul and Jesus will judge and reward them according to their obedience, works and writings...
It is of note that Paul corrected Peter and Barnabas for hypocrisy.

It is of note that it was not a correction of doctrinal truth, which is the issue here.

The mirror of God's word through the apostles, is a dim mirror compared to the glory of God. There are two places mentioning a mirror, 1 Corinthians 13:12 and 2 Corinthians 3:18.

The mirror of God's truth through the apostles is all the written truth God intended us to have of the NT.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

It is of note that it was not a correction of doctrinal truth, which is the issue here.

The mirror of God's truth through the apostles is all the written truth God intended us to have of the NT.

Gentiles with Peter and Barnabas may have got the wrong idea from them at the time. We need to think for ourselves like Paul, have a free conscience. I do not follow a catechism first.

I do not think Paul gave us doctrinal truth in his tactics and perhaps he could have done more work such as in Spain if he had survived and perhaps he could have stopped the disaster of Nero's rise to emperor.

We have a right measure of truth in the apostles' writings, it is a summary of the Gospel and has other important truths in it, about grace and freedom... it is described as a dim mirror. We can't for example know ourselves completely as we are known from the NT.

I think if Peter and Paul lived longer there would be more in the NT.

 

[Peacemaker1]

there is no way to disagree with apostle paul, apostle paul fulfilled all that was required by god, to bear the name of Christ before the jews and the gentiles, to suffer great things for his names sake, paul peter, all did perfectly for us to follow the perfect path of Christ, it is only confusion to question and deny, nothing more. the name of nero is known to be evil, no more needed to be done to that name, and the name of Christ is with power, as it saves us from the death nero has, and saves us from the vanity that is in all other people, names, and bad end.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

there is no way to disagree with apostle paul, apostle paul fulfilled all that was required by god, to bear the name of Christ before the jews and the gentiles, to suffer great things for his names sake, paul peter, all did perfectly for us to follow the perfect path of Christ, it is only confusion to question and deny, nothing more. the name of nero is known to be evil, no more needed to be done to that name, and the name of Christ is with power, as it saves us from the death nero has, and saves us from the vanity that is in all other people, names, and bad end.

That is up to you Peacemaker1, Paul did all God asked of him and John as well. John went on to do more. I am not into fate and destiny like fiction character Obi Wan Kenobi. I think it wise of our government science to refuse psychopaths from parliament now. No more Hitlers and Stalins... The response to Nero was weak, authoritative action has taken long. Paul warned us of those whose consciences are seared as by a hot iron. Take the warning. Look at Germany 1934-1945 and Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

I do not know if Paul ever spoke to Nero, if he did, he wanted repentance and conversion? What do you assess?

 

[Clare73]

Gentiles with Peter and Barnabas may have got the wrong idea from them at the time. We need to think for ourselves like Paul, have a free conscience. I do not follow a catechism first.

Paul's "catechism" was his revelation from Jesus Christ personally (Gal 1:11-12), which he imparted to, and is authoritative for, the church, the people of God.

I do not think Paul gave us doctrinal truth in his tactics and perhaps he could have done more work such as in Spain if he had survived and perhaps he could have stopped the disaster of Nero's rise to emperor.
We have a right measure of truth in the apostles' writings, it is a summary of the Gospel and has other important truths in it, about grace and freedom... it is described as a dim mirror. We can't for example know ourselves completely as we are known from the NT.
I think if Peter and Paul lived longer there would be more in the NT.

The NT contains no more and no less than God intended.

 

[Laodicean60]

The NT contains no more and no less than God intended.

Sometimes I wonder. Fallible men decided what books comprised of the bible. These men are no more infallible than you or I. God loved Nero and was waiting for him to repent just like any of us till the day we die.

 

[Jimmy It]

So are we suggesting that not all scripture is written by God's Spirit through men? If we take this stance, why believe it at all. "If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable." One thing I appreciate about Paul is he did qualify the difference between what he thought and what was the Word of God.
Perhaps we are looking at the man and forgetting that, All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 2nd Tim,3:16

 

[Laodicean60]

So are we suggesting that not all scripture is written by God's Spirit through men

Not saying that at all. If you and I walked with Jesus for three years and put His teaching on paper wouldn't you and I be Spirit lead to write our best recollection of His teachings and our experiences?

 

[Jimmy It]

Not saying that at all. If you and I walked with Jesus for three years and put His teaching on paper wouldn't you and I be Spirit lead to write our best recollection of His teachings and our experiences?

True, yet not to be difficult, scripture states not that we would be writing to the best of our recollection, but that it is God's Spirit through man speaking.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[Laodicean60]

True, yet not to be difficult, scripture states not that we would be writing to the best of our recollection, but that it is God's Spirit through man speaking.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

The Bible is all of what Timothy said. Yes, these guys would be inspired (definitely not by the devil) to tell the story of Jesus. Just like I feel inspired by God to talk about my healing on this forum. I read scripture as is and don't try to spiritualize it's not magic just truthful words to live by. Now the Spirit in us is powerful!

John 21: 25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

Be Blessed

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Paul's "catechism" was his revelation from Jesus Christ personally (Gal 1:11-12), which he imparted to, and is authoritative for, the church, the people of God.

The NT contains no more and no less than God intended.

I don't see a catechism in Paul's letters, I referred to the Catholic catechism and having the option of being judged by the catechism or my own conscience.

The New Testament is missing the Letter to the Laodiceans and the first of three letters to the Corinthians which was not popular with them. Paul raised up Timothy and could have raised up another one like him and maybe Apollos in Spain. Or Nero was unstoppable.

Living past the challenge of Nero and his successor, John continued to write.

I am sure God wanted many more evangelists and servants.

 

[Peacemaker1]

The Bible is all of what Timothy said. Yes, these guys would be inspired (definitely not by the devil) to tell the story of Jesus. Just like I feel inspired by God to talk about my healing on this forum. I read scripture as is and don't try to spiritualize it's not magic just truthful words to live by. Now the Spirit in us is powerful!

John 21: 25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

Be Blessed

the very words of Jesus are the same holy spirit if in someone who knows by the spirit of truth what the spirit is thats life, and the same spirit comes to the apostles to know all Jesus spoke exactly, because they are the only words men live by.


Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

 

[Peacemaker1]

again for you guys, what apostle paul did was all according to the will of god, and if your focus wants to be off christ, and him crucified, the value of those talks saves nobody like the words of christ, which are all about the works he did, we see that in the apostles too, only vanity in the words of others, who say they follow the word of christ, while only going around in circles of their own discussions.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Jesus was wiser than Solomon, even Solomon made mistakes. Paul was truly great, in the power of the resurrection and was wise. John was greater, he could not be killed and the Roman authority gave up and exiled him. He lived to maybe 95 AD. We are not bound to agree with Paul but are free in Christ. We are allowed to see faults in Solomon and Paul.

 

[Peacemaker1]

jesus christ is the wisdom of god, which is life, david and solomon died and saw corruption, christ raised from the dead saw no corruption, because it was not possibe for him to be held in death, john, paul, peter, all are equal, to have christ who is eternal life in them, to never see death.