Honestly, what God allows us to go through is almost evil...

Robs07M6S

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I think what you really meant to say was "I never had that real come to Jesus experience either"

What I said is exactly what I meant to say and who are you to judge me in such manner? Am I confused over some doctrinal issues? yes, I am. Do I at times lack assurance of my salvation? yes, I do. Does any of this mean that I have never been born again? No, it doesnt.

My problem with your post directed to the OP and now at ME is your condescending and judgemental tone which is something you need to keep to yourself.
 
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Robs07M6S

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Here are all the answers OP:

Survival

The book is free, and the link is at the bottom of the page. Click the link in my sig too.


Your days are numbered, troll. I read that link and your agenda is to decieve the OP and lead him away from the Cross.
 
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cimbk

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Forget all the garbage b.s. in this thread. Read post 77. Two perfect numbers for two perfect links.:)
the god of Islam is satan, trying to mimic the one true God, we know that by the test we are given in scripture, whoever rejects Jesus as the Son of God is antichrist
 
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ChrisPharmD

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You guys do realize that the simple fact that evil exists means that God created the concept. How can something perfect even allow evil to exist?

Does that make sense?

Furthermore, we are His creation. Our minds were given free will. However, the thoughts went through a perfect mind created by God, a perfect being. So if the creation is imperfect then the creator is imperfect, theoretically.

To go back to the computer program analogy, the program will do whatever I (the creator) makes it do. It will never do anything else. The only way it will do anything other than I intended is if it were flawed. Adam and Eve's minds were obviously not perfect enough to handle the temptation.

To go a step further, God knows everything right? So then God knew we would sin. God knew of my existence FAR before Adam and Eve were created. God had a master plan and I was apparently part of it. I would be a life form that existed and God knew I would be a sinner. He knew I would be a miserable person. He knew there would be huge wars, violence, greed, pain, sorrow... He knew of all of this WAY BEFORE any of it happened.

So how again is He just to allow it?
 
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cimbk

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You guys do realize that the simple fact that evil exists means that God created the concept. How can something perfect even allow evil to exist?

Does that make sense?

Furthermore, we are His creation. Our minds were given free will. However, the thoughts went through a perfect mind created by God, a perfect being. So if the creation is imperfect then the creator is imperfect, theoretically.

To go back to the computer program analogy, the program will do whatever I (the creator) makes it do. It will never do anything else. The only way it will do anything other than I intended is if it were flawed. Adam and Eve's minds were obviously not perfect enough to handle the temptation.

To go a step further, God knows everything right? So then God knew we would sin. God knew of my existence FAR before Adam and Eve were created. God had a master plan and I was apparently part of it. I would be a life form that existed and God knew I would be a sinner. He knew I would be a miserable person. He knew there would be huge wars, violence, greed, pain, sorrow... He knew of all of this WAY BEFORE any of it happened.

So how again is He just to allow it?
there is always two kinds of people in the audience at a magic show, the one is constantly watching the magician for the slight of hand, the diversion to mislead your eyes, and trying to figure out the trick........then there are the other kind, who understand its all just an illusion and sit back and enjoy the show
 
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ChrisPharmD

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there is always two kinds of people in the audience at a magic show, the one is constantly watching the magician for the slight of hand, the diversion to mislead your eyes, and trying to figure out the trick........then there are the other kind, who understand its all just an illusion and sit back and enjoy the show

I'll be honest with you... that's not the best metaphor in this case.
 
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desmalia

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You guys do realize that the simple fact that evil exists means that God created the concept. How can something perfect even allow evil to exist?

Does that make sense?

Furthermore, we are His creation. Our minds were given free will. However, the thoughts went through a perfect mind created by God, a perfect being. So if the creation is imperfect then the creator is imperfect, theoretically.

To go back to the computer program analogy, the program will do whatever I (the creator) makes it do. It will never do anything else. The only way it will do anything other than I intended is if it were flawed. Adam and Eve's minds were obviously not perfect enough to handle the temptation.

To go a step further, God knows everything right? So then God knew we would sin. God knew of my existence FAR before Adam and Eve were created. God had a master plan and I was apparently part of it. I would be a life form that existed and God knew I would be a sinner. He knew I would be a miserable person. He knew there would be huge wars, violence, greed, pain, sorrow... He knew of all of this WAY BEFORE any of it happened.

So how again is He just to allow it?

Perhaps this might help you understand the bigger picture a little...

when Jesus came into the world, God in human flesh, He was holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners. God is not evil. God does not do evil. He cannot be tempted to do evil. He never tempts anybody else to do evil. God is not responsible for evil. The source of evil, the source of sin is outside God. When God created angels and God created humans, He gave them intelligence, He gave them reason and He gave them choice. And there is a sequence. I put those words in that order for a purpose.

Intelligence gave them the ability to understand things. Reason gave them the ability to process that understanding toward behavior and choice gave them the freedom to determine that behavior. Intelligence, reason and choice...bottom line, with what they knew and with the ability they had to process that information, they would be brought to a choice and whether angels or men, they would have the choice either to obey God or not to obey God. Listen to this, to disobey God was to initiate evil. Evil is not the presence of something, evil is the absence of righteousness. You can't create evil because evil doesn't exist as a created entity. It doesn't exist as a created reality. Evil is a negative. Evil is the absence of perfection. It's the absence of holiness. It's the absence of goodness. It's the absence of righteousness. Evil became a reality only when creatures chose to do disobey. Evil came into existence initially then in the fall of angels and then next, in the fall of Adam and Eve.

Just put it this way in your mind. Evil is not a created thing. Evil is not a substance. Evil is not an entity. Evil is not a being. Evil is not a force. Evil is not some floating spirit. Evil is a lack of moral perfection. God created absolute perfection. Wherever a lack of that exists, sin exists. And that cannot exist in the nature of God or in anything that God makes.

Evil comes into existence when God's creatures fall short of the standard of moral perfection. Now let me take it a step further. God did not create evil, He did not author evil, He did not make evil. But listen carefully, very important, God did decree to use evil as a part of His eternal plan, okay? He will not be culpable for it. He did not bring it into existence. That would be impossible because God is good, all good, and only good. Therefore whatever comes out of Him is all good and only good. God can therefore produce only good. And what is evil but the absence of that good which is a choice made by the reasonings based upon the information revealed through His creatures.

But God was not caught off guard. In fact, God decreed that evil would be part of His plan. He is not the creator of evil and He is not the cause of evil. He did not bring evil into existence in a cosmic sense, and He did not and does not bring evil into existence in a personal sense. He is not the cause of sin, nor is He the cause of sins in the lives of people. But He does use it for His purposes.
That's just a small portion of the sermon. You can hear the rest here: The Origin of Evil
 
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cimbk

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I'll be honest with you... that's not the best metaphor in this case.
It appears to me you have some need to figure God out, understand His ways, and have reasons why or why He doesn't do this and do that.........and others understand that the bible says His ways are above our ways, and we will never come to a level playing field mind wise to be able to understand everything about God. but we can understand one simple truth "God is good" and just sit back and enjoy the show, trust me this life will be over before you know it, what has you feeling down today, will be a distant memory you laugh about tomorrow
 
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Robs07M6S

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didn't you just judge an unbeliever and call him a troll, so how does that work:confused:

I called him a troll because he is a troll, he is in the baptist forum posting islamic links and trying to lead others astray, that is the definition of a forum troll.
 
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cimbk

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I called him a troll because he is a troll, he is in the baptist forum posting islamic links and trying to lead others astray, that is the definition of a forum troll.
Heres a little doctrine, you can make judgements about anyone who says they're a Christian and part of the body of Christ, but an Islamist, a Buddist, a Hindu, anyone outside the Christian faith according to the bible, we are to make NO judgements, (see 1 Cor 5:12-13)

no Christian is to judge them for anything they say or do, in fact if you consider him an enemy of Christ and the church your reaction should be the opposite. When Paul confronted the people at Mars hill, did he start calling people names and telling them their day is coming (see acts 17:22-31)

The OP of this thread made claims that he was a Christian, like many Christians today, they need to prove God exist, some even deny a biblical creation, and Adam is a fictional character, they are double minded, If someone can't believe Peter walked on water with Jesus (scientifically impossible) a donkey spoke to Balaam (scientifically impossible) Jesus died and rose again (scientifically impossible)

If they are constantly questioning God, why did He do this and why did He do that, In some way elevating their own thoughts as (I would of never did this if I'd known that!) Its appalling to hear someone who claims to be a Christian question God, as if He doesn't know what He's doing............

we already know from warnings, that following Christ means suffering and possible death, If your not in it for the long haul, then I suggest finding a different faith, and in that way, I will no longer make judgements about what either of you say.

The original post was "honestly what God allows us to go through is almost evil......".........I say "that is bordering the point of calling God evil".....and that my friend is as unChristian as it gets. so if I doubt someone is born again who would join himself in this kind of thinking, that God is almost evil, than so beit.........

maybe you both should read your bibles more, because God and Jesus and all the apostles teach that being a disciple of Christ means "they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My names sake"......

If your not happy with the job description, then maybe you should consider this passage in Luke 9:24
24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.
 
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Robs07M6S

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Heres a little doctrine, you can make judgements about anyone who says they're a Christian and part of the body of Christ, but an Islamist, a Buddist, a Hindu, anyone outside the Christian faith according to the bible, we are to make NO judgements, (see 1 Cor 5:12-13)

no Christian is to judge them for anything they say or do, in fact if you consider him an enemy of Christ and the church your reaction should be the opposite. When Paul confronted the people at Mars hill, did he start calling people names and telling them their day is coming (see acts 17:22-31)

The OP of this thread made claims that he was a Christian, like many Christians today, they need to prove God exist, some even deny a biblical creation, and Adam is a fictional character, they are double minded, If someone can't believe Peter walked on water with Jesus (scientifically impossible) a donkey spoke to Balaam (scientifically impossible) Jesus died and rose again (scientifically impossible)

If they are constantly questioning God, why did He do this and why did He do that, In some way elevating their own thoughts as (I would of never did this if I'd known that!) Its appalling to hear someone who claims to be a Christian question God, as if He doesn't know what He's doing............

we already know from warnings, that following Christ means suffering and possible death, If your not in it for the long haul, then I suggest finding a different faith, and in that way, I will no longer make judgements about what either of you say.

The original post was "honestly what God allows us to go through is almost evil......".........I say "that is bordering the point of calling God evil".....and that my friend is as unChristian as it gets. so if I doubt someone is born again who would join himself in this kind of thinking, that God is almost evil, than so beit.........

maybe you both should read your bibles more, because God and Jesus and all the apostles teach that being a disciple of Christ means "they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My names sake"......

If your not happy with the job description, then maybe you should consider this passage in Luke 9:24
24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.


Thanks schoolmaster, now why dont you try telling me something that I already dont know because once again your assumptions about me are all wrong.
 
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Thanks. I don't really have much to add, but it does make sense that after many generations, sin would be more embedded into the heart of man. That makes sense.

...humorously, I have to add... and there are many who could see this coming from a mile away... but... but... (and I'm sorry) If I have no motivation to talk to God like this... then how will it happen?

Bahaha... I'm sorry. Really, I'm beating the dead horse here. I'll shut up now.

I think at this point, you guys understand my point. I may repeat it, though, depending on the responses I get.

Hi Chris,

Here's my take on the problem of evil:

Why is there Evil? « Osage Bluestem

David
 
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Emmy

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Dear ChrisPharmD. God gave us His 10 Commandments: loving advice to us. God does not force us ever, and God loves us and we are told that if we " ask, we will receive." In Matthew, chapter 22, verses 35-40, Jesus tells a Lawyer: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself." Then Jesus states this very important fact: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
God does not give us our illnesses or shortcommings, God gives us good advice, then we follow it, or ignore it, or even go against it: God does NOT FORCE us. We are on this Earth to learn to love God, our Heavenly Father, and to love all we know and all we meet, whether friends or not friends. God wants loving children/sons and daughters. Jesus our Saviour, is ready to help and guide us. Jesus will give us His Love and Joy to share with all around us. ( our neighbour) The Holy Spirit will give us His Love, also, to share with fellow-men and fellow-women: selfless love and care, with no conditions tagged on.
How do we do that?? Start by treating all we know and all we meet as we would love to be treated: with kindness, friendly words and attitudes, helping hands, ( when needed) and ever ready to forgive, as God has forgiven us. God sees our sincere efforts, and God will approve and bless us. God will also know that we love God: HOW?? By following God`s Commandments to love and care. Love is a Christian`s great weapon to fight and overcome all enmity and adversity, all evil thrown at us.
We will stumble and forget at times, but we will ask God to forgive us, and God will forgive us, as we will forgive others.
Life is not easy, Chris, but we have to try to become " Overcomers," to learn to become as God wants us to be. And with God on our side, who, or what, can be against us? I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
 
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Pete_Martinez

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I'm a day late and a dollar short, but I think i'll reply. Your very first post reminds me of wilderness Israel.

Exo 14:10 When Pharaoh drew near, the people of Israel lifted up their eyes, and behold, the Egyptians were marching after them, and they feared greatly. And the people of Israel cried out to the LORD.
Exo 14:11 They said to Moses, "Is it because there are no graves in Egypt that you have taken us away to die in the wilderness? What have you done to us in bringing us out of Egypt?
Exo 14:12 Is not this what we said to you in Egypt: 'Leave us alone that we may serve the Egyptians'? For it would have been better for us to serve the Egyptians than to die in the wilderness."

Exo 15:23 When they came to Marah, they could not drink the water of Marah because it was bitter; therefore it was named Marah.
Exo 15:24 And the people grumbled against Moses, saying, "What shall we drink?"
Exo 15:25 And he cried to the LORD, and the LORD showed him a log, and he threw it into the water, and the water became sweet. There the LORD made for them a statute and a rule, and there he tested them,
Exo 15:26 saying, "If you will diligently listen to the voice of the LORD your God, and do that which is right in his eyes, and give ear to his commandments and keep all his statutes, I will put none of the diseases on you that I put on the Egyptians, for I am the LORD, your healer."

Exo 16:2 And the whole congregation of the people of Israel grumbled against Moses and Aaron in the wilderness,
Exo 16:3 and the people of Israel said to them, "Would that we had died by the hand of the LORD in the land of Egypt, when we sat by the meat pots and ate bread to the full, for you have brought us out into this wilderness to kill this whole assembly with hunger."
Exo 16:4 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Behold, I am about to rain bread from heaven for you, and the people shall go out and gather a day's portion every day, that I may test them, whether they will walk in my law or not.

Exo 17:1 All the congregation of the people of Israel moved on from the wilderness of Sin by stages, according to the commandment of the LORD, and camped at Rephidim, but there was no water for the people to drink.
Exo 17:2 Therefore the people quarreled with Moses and said, "Give us water to drink." And Moses said to them, "Why do you quarrel with me? Why do you test the LORD?"
Exo 17:3 But the people thirsted there for water, and the people grumbled against Moses and said, "Why did you bring us up out of Egypt, to kill us and our children and our livestock with thirst?"
Exo 17:4 So Moses cried to the LORD, "What shall I do with this people? They are almost ready to stone me."

Anyways, that's what your first post reminded me of. I know what it's like to live in fear, worried about what's going to happen, if God is truly done with me.

One thing you have to realize is that there is purpose in your trials. While you are being emptied and led into trials you still have some way to go. That being said be careful about having a root of bitterness, i sense some of it in your posts.

Deu 29:18 Beware lest there be among you a man or woman or clan or tribe whose heart is turning away today from the LORD our God to go and serve the gods of those nations. Beware lest there be among you a root bearing poisonous and bitter fruit,
Deu 29:19 one who, when he hears the words of this sworn covenant, blesses himself in his heart, saying, 'I shall be safe, though I walk in the stubbornness of my heart.' This will lead to the sweeping away of moist and dry alike.

Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

A bit of warning about being bitter towards God and turning to sin as a result. That being said...

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Heb 12:12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
Heb 12:13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

I know that doesn't necessarily answer your question, but I think it sheds some light. I hope you use what I have said as a springboard to find what you're looking for.
 
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ChrisPharmD

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I hate to reawaken a dead and controversial thread, but I suppose it's better than creating a new one.

First of all, thanks for all of the replies. You guys probably know how I feel about this situation at this point.

All I really wanted to say is that I absolutely hate my life, hate this life, wish I was stronger, which I was actually motivated, and wish I had loved ones in my life to turn to. Maybe I don't deserve these things... but I know for a fact that if I created something that was hurting, I'd at least give it a boost if it were desperately asking for it. Even if it didn't believe I existed, I'd still feel bad about seeing it sit miserable.

Just my .02. I wonder how long I'll be in this rut.
 
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I hate to reawaken a dead and controversial thread, but I suppose it's better than creating a new one.

First of all, thanks for all of the replies. You guys probably know how I feel about this situation at this point.

All I really wanted to say is that I absolutely hate my life, hate this life, wish I was stronger, which I was actually motivated, and wish I had loved ones in my life to turn to. Maybe I don't deserve these things... but I know for a fact that if I created something that was hurting, I'd at least give it a boost if it were desperately asking for it. Even if it didn't believe I existed, I'd still feel bad about seeing it sit miserable.

Just my .02. I wonder how long I'll be in this rut.

My .02 cowboy up and get over it. You won't be here forever.
 
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