Homosexuality

[Paidiske]

The fact homosexuality is trendy for females and not males (at least not to the same degree) shows in females its probably more of a choice.

I suspect that it shows us the strength of patriarchy. Patriarchy is happy to exploit women's sexuality (and two women is a fantasy for so many men), but patriarchy cannot abide sexual passivity in men.

 

[Sammy-San]

I suspect that it shows us the strength of patriarchy. Patriarchy is happy to exploit women's sexuality (and two women is a fantasy for so many men), but patriarchy cannot abide sexual passivity in men.

What does that mean

 

[Paidiske]

What does that mean

It means that our patriarchal culture is deeply anti-homosexuality in men, so men who can, repress it; but our patriarchal culture is more permissive towards, and in some cases even rewards, more diverse expressions of sexuality for women (so long as they can be treated as performative for men).

 

[Sammy-San]

It means that our patriarchal culture is deeply anti-homosexuality in men, so men who can, repress it; but our patriarchal culture is more permissive towards, and in some cases even rewards, more diverse expressions of sexuality for women (so long as they can be treated as performative for men).

Do you think people look down on women who they don't view as objects for that sin

 

[Paidiske]

Do you think people look down on women who they don't view as objects for that sin

I think there are some men (note: I am carefully not saying all men!) who basically see women as sexual objects, there for male gratification. Such men are likely to be hostile to women who have other ideas about our agency, role, etc.

 

[Sammy-San]

I think there are some men (note: I am carefully not saying all men!) who basically see women as sexual objects, there for male gratification. Such men are likely to be hostile to women who have other ideas about our agency, role, etc.

Do you think lesbophobia has any similarities with the chauvinism of homophobia?

 

[Paidiske]

Do you think lesbophobia has any similarities with the chauvinism of homophobia?

I'm not sure I fully understand your question, but I think perhaps some men object to women's sexuality that isn't focussed on, controlled by or performed for men.

 

[Sammy-San]

I'm not sure I fully understand your question, but I think perhaps some men object to women's sexuality that isn't focussed on, controlled by or performed for men.

Do you think homophobia is pride and arrogance?

 

[Paidiske]

Do you think homophobia is pride and arrogance?

I don't know that we can boil it down to anything that simply. I think there are often elements of both of those things, though.

 

[hedrick]

Do you think homophobia is pride and arrogance?

More typically I think it's cultural (and bad exegesis). I'm not sure people who disapprove are necessarily more arrogant.

 

[muichimotsu]

How does fornication violate the respect of ones spouse if neither are married? Adultrey is not fornication in the normal sense of the term.

Someone said marriage was an asset sharing agreement and someone else said it existed before Christianity and Judaism. I believe marriage is something God put in peoples hearts.

If you are married, pretty sure fornication is nearly indistinct from adultery. Marriage is not necessarily required to have committment, it's a societal aspect that is common, but it's like the idea that someone having responsible sex with multiple partners makes them immoral; an outdated and sex negative idea that reduces the act to something purely procreative and ignores the social aspects of sex

You can believe anything, you have to actually substantiate it or you're just expecting people to be gullible and foolish to take what you say as anything possessing authority.

Abrahamic faiths don't have the monopoly on marriage, even the idea of some kind of holy matrimony likely exists outside of Semitic cultures that spawned the faith you affirm

 

[muichimotsu]

Gender exists so that people could recognize who could be their spouse. There are minute details that reveal a persons face is male or female. Females have a flower like symmetry, males a steel like symmetry.

The fact homosexuality is trendy for females and not males (at least not to the same degree) shows in females its probably more of a choice.

Gender is not sex, you're confusing the two and suggesting someone only chooses a spouse because of their physical features, which is painfully oversimplifying how affection of a romantic nature is far more than that

Uh, no trendiness doesn't entail attraction is a choice, only the acts at most, which can be "faked" by anyone in terms of the idea that you have this attraction, but could just be someone in denial that they are likely bisexual or such, not exclusively homosexual

 

[muichimotsu]

There were people in ancient Greece who loved the same gender for life and were in equal relationships. The Bible doesnt just say homosexuality is wrong in the context of pedophilia and pederasty.

Don't think I insinuated that, the bible didn't have a concept of sexual orientation, only sexual acts, so it's a moot point

 

[Sammy-San]

Don't think I insinuated that, the bible didn't have a concept of sexual orientation, only sexual acts, so it's a moot point

The Bible doesn't just condemn bisexuality. The ancient Greek practiced homosexuality as a result of sex addiction and were also gay pedophiles but the Bible mentions neither practice.

 

[Sammy-San]

Gender is not sex, you're confusing the two and suggesting someone only chooses a spouse because of their physical features, which is painfully oversimplifying how affection of a romantic nature is far more than that

Uh, no trendiness doesn't entail attraction is a choice, only the acts at most, which can be "faked" by anyone in terms of the idea that you have this attraction, but could just be someone in denial that they are likely bisexual or such, not exclusively homosexual

Romance means a connection to sexuality without the intention. Technically all friendships are relationships and all relationships function like friends with benefits relationships but without the intent. Romance is a love that is consummated but it's also not the intent of that love.
Ones gender identity is not separate from their biology.

 

[Sammy-San]

Gender is not sex, you're confusing the two and suggesting someone only chooses a spouse because of their physical features, which is painfully oversimplifying how affection of a romantic nature is far more than that

Uh, no trendiness doesn't entail attraction is a choice, only the acts at most, which can be "faked" by anyone in terms of the idea that you have this attraction, but could just be someone in denial that they are likely bisexual or such, not exclusively homosexual

Bisexuality doesn't exist. The same mechanism that causes homosexuality doesn't function in a way that a person can find both genders equally attractive. Jesus mentioned people born eunuchs. Why would someone be a male or female if they didn't have the equipment? It means people born asexual. There are people who develop normally and are asexual but there's no evidence the same exists for bisexual people

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

More typically I think it's cultural (and bad exegesis). I'm not sure people who disapprove are necessarily more arrogant.

Have you read Robert Gagnon's work?
Whats your opinion on it?

 

[hedrick]

Have you read Robert Gagnon's work?
Whats your opinion on it?

His scholarship seems good, his exegesis and moral conclusions not so much. I’ve found his summaries of attitudes by various groups useful.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

His scholarship seems good, his exegesis and moral conclusions not so much. I’ve found his summaries of attitudes by various groups useful.

What does he do incorrectly ref his exegesis?
Do you know quality critics of his work?

 

[hedrick]

What does he do incorrectly ref his exegesis?
Do you know quality critics of his work?

CF rules don’t permit that discussion in this forum. The SOP for the Ethics forum says "discussion and debate should only be directed toward political, legal, historical and civil rights issues, and should not be directed toward the morality of homosexuality, same-sex marriage, bisexuality or transgenderism/transexualism."

Aside from a couple of denominational groups (ELCA and Methodist, I think), that discussion is only allowed in the Liberal forum.