Homosexuality

[Sammy-San]

Nothing in Scripture establishes that "God's image is masculine." It is very dangerous to ascribe maleness/masculinity to God, as if we can project our human characteristics onto the deity; or as if we can think that some human beings are somehow more like God than others.



I don't know where you're getting this stuff about steel/flower symmetry, but it's not Scriptural. It also comes across as deeply sexist.

The question of whether attraction always has an erotic dimension is interesting. I've sometimes watched, say, a charismatic lecturer walk into a classroom and there be a certain... frisson... across the class. But if we do allow for an erotic dimension to all attraction then we might need to conceive of an eroticism which is about more than sexuality.

Regarding what I said about maleness and God and steel flower symmetry, the Bible says a womans hair is her glory. Women and men also look very different in terms of the face. Are you saying gender exists so we can recognize mates?

The world would be better off if Adam was single because God is a jealous God, which means God created man first because his image is masculine. Are you saying if people didnt reproduce we would have a sexless race?

Gender is more than reproduction. Eggs dont have an erotic function. People eat eggs.

 

[Sammy-San]

Nothing in Scripture establishes that "God's image is masculine." It is very dangerous to ascribe maleness/masculinity to God, as if we can project our human characteristics onto the deity; or as if we can think that some human beings are somehow more like God than others.



I don't know where you're getting this stuff about steel/flower symmetry, but it's not Scriptural. It also comes across as deeply sexist.

The question of whether attraction always has an erotic dimension is interesting. I've sometimes watched, say, a charismatic lecturer walk into a classroom and there be a certain... frisson... across the class. But if we do allow for an erotic dimension to all attraction then we might need to conceive of an eroticism which is about more than sexuality.

Also my pastor said that satan is male.

Some native americans look almost androgynous but even then there is a steel flower symmetry. Even boys that look like girls still have that steel masculine look.

i got what i said about flower and steel from church.

 

[Paidiske]

Regarding what I said about maleness and God and steel flower symmetry, the Bible says a womans hair is her glory.

The comment about hair was a cultural matter.

Are you saying gender exists so we can recognize mates?

While I hesitate to go here, before we can have that discussion, we'd better define "gender."

The world would be better off if Adam was single because God is a jealous God, which means God created man first because his image is masculine.

Oh, where to start?
No, the world would not be better off if Adam were single. Adam without a partner was the first thing in creation that God described as "not good."
And no, God's image is not masculine. God's image can be understood in a variety of ways - rationality, creativity, capacity to join in God's work in the world - but it's not about sex or gender.

Are you saying if people didnt reproduce we would have a sexless race?

?? If people didn't reproduce, we wouldn't have a race at all.

Gender is more than reproduction.

Agreed. It's also a great deal about social constructs.

 

[Paidiske]

i got what i said about flower and steel from church.

I think it is, to put it bluntly, "dodgy" theological anthropology.

 

[Sammy-San]

The comment about hair was a cultural matter.



While I hesitate to go here, before we can have that discussion, we'd better define "gender."



Oh, where to start?
No, the world would not be better off if Adam were single. Adam without a partner was the first thing in creation that God described as "not good."
And no, God's image is not masculine. God's image can be understood in a variety of ways - rationality, creativity, capacity to join in God's work in the world - but it's not about sex or gender.



?? If people didn't reproduce, we wouldn't have a race at all.



Agreed. It's also a great deal about social constructs.

I saw something on Youtube that said angels have private parts.

 

[Strathos]

Nope, done, you don't seem to even grasp that those ideas are NOT animal concepts, they are human ones. We don't have animal marriage period, animals pair bond in a different manner.

 

[Sammy-San]

The comment about hair was a cultural matter.



While I hesitate to go here, before we can have that discussion, we'd better define "gender."



Oh, where to start?
No, the world would not be better off if Adam were single. Adam without a partner was the first thing in creation that God described as "not good."
And no, God's image is not masculine. God's image can be understood in a variety of ways - rationality, creativity, capacity to join in God's work in the world - but it's not about sex or gender.



?? If people didn't reproduce, we wouldn't have a race at all.



Agreed. It's also a great deal about social constructs.

Gender as in male or female. The reason people talk about transgender people with soft gloves is because when talking about things that have to do with peoples off limits ness, its delicate subject matter. I dont think people say "we all have someting wrong with us it doesnt have to be gender confusion" simply because those people say that God made a mistake.

 

[Sammy-San]

I think it is, to put it bluntly, "dodgy" theological anthropology.

What do you mean anthropology?

 

[Sammy-San]

The comment about hair was a cultural matter.



While I hesitate to go here, before we can have that discussion, we'd better define "gender."



Oh, where to start?
No, the world would not be better off if Adam were single. Adam without a partner was the first thing in creation that God described as "not good."
And no, God's image is not masculine. God's image can be understood in a variety of ways - rationality, creativity, capacity to join in God's work in the world - but it's not about sex or gender.



?? If people didn't reproduce, we wouldn't have a race at all.



Agreed. It's also a great deal about social constructs.

Do you think the devil and the demons are made in Gods image?

 

[Paidiske]

I saw something on Youtube that said angels have private parts.

Scripture tells us very little about angels. We do know that in Isaiah's vision of the seraphim, he described them as using their wings to cover their "feet," and this is believed to be a euphemism for their private parts. But we don't really know.

Gender as in male or female.

Okay, that's biological sex. No, I am not saying biological sex exists so that we can recognise mates, because biological sex exists in plants and even in fungi.

What do you mean anthropology?

Anthropology means how we understand humanity. Theological anthropology means how we understand humanity in relation to God.

Do you think the devil and the demons are made in Gods image?

It seems that angels (and fallen angels) relate to God as God's creation in a different way than human beings do. I wouldn't want to speculate much further than that.

 

[Sammy-San]

Scripture tells us very little about angels. We do know that in Isaiah's vision of the seraphim, he described them as using their wings to cover their "feet," and this is believed to be a euphemism for their private parts. But we don't really know.



Okay, that's biological sex. No, I am not saying biological sex exists so that we can recognise mates, because biological sex exists in plants and even in fungi.



Anthropology means how we understand humanity. Theological anthropology means how we understand humanity in relation to God.



It seems that angels (and fallen angels) relate to God as God's creation in a different way than human beings do. I wouldn't want to speculate much further than that.

So our looks and chromosomes and hormones and different brains arent related to reproduction? What does the Bible say about transgender people? | Bible and Homosexuality

People have private parts more than just for reproduction.

Biological sex exists so we can recognize mates, I dont understand that concept.

What is private being private has to do with reproduction. Angels dont have gender because they dont reproduce. In a Bible study mentioning sex they mentioned the word interlocking.

 

[Sammy-San]

Scripture tells us very little about angels. We do know that in Isaiah's vision of the seraphim, he described them as using their wings to cover their "feet," and this is believed to be a euphemism for their private parts. But we don't really know.



Okay, that's biological sex. No, I am not saying biological sex exists so that we can recognise mates, because biological sex exists in plants and even in fungi.



Anthropology means how we understand humanity. Theological anthropology means how we understand humanity in relation to God.



It seems that angels (and fallen angels) relate to God as God's creation in a different way than human beings do. I wouldn't want to speculate much further than that.

I thought male and female was about gender identity.

Are you saying that the reason people talk about transgenderism with such delicacy is more than the off limits nature of it? It could also be because of the way that those people relate to Gods creation could be strange to some people.

 

[Paidiske]

So our looks and chromosomes and hormones and different brains arent related to reproduction? What does the Bible say about transgender people? | Bible and Homosexuality

Of course they're related to reproduction. But not necessarily in simple and straightforward ways, especially when it comes to looks. Sexual selection might be a concept worth looking into.

People have private parts more than just for reproduction.

Well, yes, some of our reproductive organs fulfill more than one function, but I'm not really sure what your point is here.

Biological sex exists so we can recognize mates, I dont understand that concept.

No, actually. Biological sex exists as a strategy for producing genetically diverse offspring. Rather than reproducing asexually, which generally produces offspring who are genetically identical to their parents, sexual reproduction allows for a combination of genetic material from both parents. This increases the diversity - and thus maximises the potential for biological success - of the next generation.

What is private being private has to do with reproduction.

Well, actually, it has to do with cultural norms around what should be private.

Angels dont have gender because they dont reproduce.

That's entirely speculative.

I thought male and female was about gender identity.

The way I understand it, male and female is about biological sex (your chromosomes and phenotype). Masculine and feminine is about gender (your social roles and behaviour).

Are you saying that the reason people talk about transgenderism with such delicacy is more than the off limits nature of it? It could also be because of the way that those people relate to Gods creation could be strange to some people.

I wasn't really saying anything about the discourse around transgenderism.

 

[Sammy-San]

Of course they're related to reproduction. But not necessarily in simple and straightforward ways, especially when it comes to looks. Sexual selection might be a concept worth looking into.



Well, yes, some of our reproductive organs fulfill more than one function, but I'm not really sure what your point is here.



No, actually. Biological sex exists as a strategy for producing genetically diverse offspring. Rather than reproducing asexually, which generally produces offspring who are genetically identical to their parents, sexual reproduction allows for a combination of genetic material from both parents. This increases the diversity - and thus maximises the potential for biological success - of the next generation.



Well, actually, it has to do with cultural norms around what should be private.



That's entirely speculative.



The way I understand it, male and female is about biological sex (your chromosomes and phenotype). Masculine and feminine is about gender (your social roles and behaviour).



I wasn't really saying anything about the discourse around transgenderism.

To say biological sex exists so we can recognize mates is self defeating and doesnt even have meaning. That isny my position.

Why do we have different chromosomes and phenotype. Male and female has something to do with whats off limits. Masculine and feminine has a connection to whats off limits. Im not saying male and female exists so we can recognize mates im saying we recognize male and female because of subtle different features because of mates. Someone said that in certain cultures males and females look more similar than in general.

Not everything has symmetry, so youre saying gender is about symmetry where it all matches? Im not disagreeing its just a question.

If nothing was private then private would lose meaning. To say its okay to be gay is a self defeating statement.

What do you mean not in simple and straighforward ways?

Reproductive organs also exist for excretion.
Are you saying angels dont have gender?

 

[Paidiske]

Why do we have different chromosomes and phenotype. Male and female has something to do with whats off limits. Masculine and feminine has a connection to whats off limits. Im not saying male and female exists so we can recognize mates im saying we recognize male and female because of subtle different features because of mates.

Are you arguing that sex differences exist because of natural "limits"? I'd say it's the other way around. Limits (natural and cultural) have developed because of sex differences.

Not everything has symmetry, so youre saying gender is about symmetry where it all matches?

No, not at all.

If nothing was private then private would lose meaning.

Probably.

To say its okay to be gay is a self defeating statement.

Well, that would depend both on the self, and on the aims of that self.

What do you mean not in simple and straighforward ways?

Did you read the article I linked to, on sexual selection?

Reproductive organs also exist for excretion.

In men, anyway.

Are you saying angels dont have gender?

I am saying Scripture tells me nothing about the gender of angels.

 

[Sammy-San]

Are you arguing that sex differences exist because of natural "limits"? I'd say it's the other way around. Limits (natural and cultural) have developed because of sex differences.



No, not at all.



Probably.



Well, that would depend both on the self, and on the aims of that self.



Did you read the article I linked to, on sexual selection?



In men, anyway.



I am saying Scripture tells me nothing about the gender of angels.

Why do you think the word kid is more masculine than feminine?

 

[muichimotsu]

Yeah, cute, but more a reflection of some people trying too hard to make animals feel like more than what they are, which is important to emotional and mental health, but they don't need to wear clothes, I've always found that fairly silly myself

 

[Paidiske]

Why do you think the word kid is more masculine than feminine?

I don't. I note that its origins are Norse or Germanic, which might seem harsher to the ear than some other languages. The association of linguistic harshness with masculinity is entirely artificial, though.

 

[Sammy-San]

Are you arguing that sex differences exist because of natural "limits"? I'd say it's the other way around. Limits (natural and cultural) have developed because of sex differences.



No, not at all.



Probably.



Well, that would depend both on the self, and on the aims of that self.



Did you read the article I linked to, on sexual selection?



In men, anyway.



I am saying Scripture tells me nothing about the gender of angels.

What do u mean it would depend on the self?

By gender you mean they dont have reproductive cells?

I think gender has to do with the totality of human history. Genders do have a different nuance in terms of appearence.

 

[Sammy-San]

I don't. I note that its origins are Norse or Germanic, which might seem harsher to the ear than some other languages. The association of linguistic harshness with masculinity is entirely artificial, though.

I didnt say it was a harsh word?

True to a degree, but women wear nail polish and dresses more than men.