Homosexuality

[JayJay77]

So, you don't agree with the created order?

 

[LunarPlexus]

So, you don't agree with the created order?

Depends on what you mean by that.
I don't agree that there is a specific set of rules.

I don't think that the nature of the world we live in restricts us. It is people who do that.

 

[Floatingaxe]

No, I'm not suggesting anything either way. But, the fact is that the bible never mentioned a word about Jesus' sexual endeavors (or lack thereof) or his marital status. So no one can comment on Jesus' sex life or make any positive statements based on it, i.e., saying that "Jesus didn't have sex with so and so". You can have an opinion on it, but that's about all...you can't state it as a fact.

Was Jesus a virgin? Do you know? I'm sure you probably believe he was, and if so, can you direct me to a verse which explicitly states so?

1Peter 1:19
It was the precious blood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God.

There's one. As Jesus was sinless, we know He never broke the law and remained pure.

 

[JayJay77]

LunarPlexus:
I is my opinion that God created the "genitals in between our legs" for a reason. It was to procreate. And the argument I get from this is: "Well, barren couples can't procreate, so are they failures?"

The answer is an obvious "no."

But here's an illustration. When you have two puzzle pieces that go together, they fit regardless of damage, or warp. It is the way the puzzle creator meant it to be. Imagine the puzzle pieces going wherever they like. It wouldn't fit.

 

[OllieFranz]

LunarPlexus:
I is my opinion that God created the "genitals in between our legs" for a reason. It was to procreate. And the argument I get from this is: "Well, barren couples can't procreate, so are they failures?"

The answer is an obvious "no."

But here's an illustration. When you have two puzzle pieces that go together, they fit regardless of damage, or warp. It is the way the puzzle creator meant it to be. Imagine the puzzle pieces going wherever they like. It wouldn't fit.

I have heard, from those with personal experience, that the pieces "fit just fine, thank you." And that if they had not fit, they would have just given up and gone bowling, and you would have no homosexuals to worry about.

 

[JayJay77]

Of course, any two puzzle pieces would fit just fine, too....if you force it. My point is that it is not the created order.

 

[Ohioprof]

Of course, any two puzzle pieces would fit just fine, too....if you force it. My point is that it is not the created order.

Sure it is. That's why there are so many animals that engage in sexual activity with other animals of the same sex.

We are all part of the created order.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Sure it is. That's why there are so many animals that engage in sexual activity with other animals of the same sex.

We are all part of the created order.

We are nothing like the animal order. We have spirits that live forever. Act like an animal and that can cinch your eternity in damnation. Live for God and live as a human being is supposed to live, and find happiness in Christ --live forever with Him.

 

[OllieFranz]

Of course, any two puzzle pieces would fit just fine, too....if you force it. My point is that it is not the created order.

As you yourself pointed out, sometimes even the "right" fit has to be 'forced.' So any possible the need for 'force' (and generally there would not be such a need) is a non-issue:

But here's an illustration. When you have two puzzle pieces that go together, they fit regardless of damage, or warp. It is the way the puzzle creator meant it to be.

 

[Leah]

How fortunate that hit is God who decides who he has a personal relationship with not you. And it also fortunate that God does not base his relationships on prejudice.


"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" And He said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' "This is the great and foremost commandment. "The second is like it, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." Matthew 22:36-40

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." John 13:34-35

prejudice has no place with Jesus. You would do well to remember that

You did not just go there. Who said anything about me not loving people, being prejudice or even the mention of a relationship with God and what did your post have to do with my post? Answer that.

YOU would do well not to jump to wrong conclusions.

 

[Leah]

It annoys me that other Christians treat my relationship with another women with contempt and disgust. It annoys me that many gay people are pushed away from the church by negative attitudes based on archaic translations of the Bible which may not even be the correct translation in the first place.

Perhaps most of all it annoys me that those who condemn us dont seem to grasp just how unreasonable it is that they can get married and have happy sexual relationships with the person they love, and we gay people are meant to suck it up and deal with celibacy for all our lives.Im sorry but theres no way thats going to sit with me, it would be unreasonable for God to ask that of me, and he isnt unresonable so I dont believe that God condemns same-sex relationships.

End of rant.

Stop looking at it that way.

The ones who condemn you are the very same ones who are have logs in their own eyes (hypocrits). Don't worry about what people are saying or even think because there's not a heaven or a hell any of us can put you or anyone else in.

However, sin is still sin and homosexuality is sin, whether you believe that or not. Freedom and righteousness is not based on what we like/dislike or believe, but what is true. And what is true is God and every good thing about Him. It's up to us if we want to accept and follow that or not.

Besides, the kingdom of God isn't even about us. But you already know that, right?

 

[Leah]

Dear BigBAdWlf,
But Imana quoted God's word as well, dont you believe I Corinthians 6:9-11 is God's word? [/size][/font]
Also you refered to love again, agape isnt sex, Jesus said love each other as He loved, He didnt have sex with everyone.

I did and thank you for noticing that.

 

[Leah]

I do get so tired hearing that if I believe homosexuality is a sin, then I am a hater. The hate has allegedly been perpetrated by a conspiracy of narrow-minded, conservative theologians and anti-gay Christians whose sole purpose is to vilify gays and deny them their due rights as human beings.

Contrary to what the conspiracy theory suggests, Bible translators over the centuries were focused primarily on accurately translating the scriptures, not in singling out one group of people to vilify. Prohibitions against homosexuality are typically mentioned in context with many other forms of sin, including adultery, fornication and incest. If we were to say that the gays were being singled out, then other people who sin could also claim victim status. In other words all of us since we all are sinners.

Don't get me wrong, there are some people who truly hate homosexuals, and may have tried to justify such hate by the scriptures against it. Even so, I don’t think this is where the majority of Christians who believe homosexual acts are sinful are coming from. Their belief that homosexuality is sinful is taken from the scriptures that state it and from the conviction of their own consciences.

It is a mistake to state that believing a way is the same thing as hating a person. It’s important to emphasize that the issue at hand is sinful behavior, not the person behind it. Christians are called to hate the evil that people do, but love people:

Romans 12:9-13
9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.
10 Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another;
11 not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; 12 rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer;
13 distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality.

Christians’ love for one another is brotherly love, not sexual love. This concept of brotherly love carries with it the responsibility of confronting a brother when he has drifted into sinful activity.

Gal. 6:1
1 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted.

And so, if a person believes the scriptures that clearly identify homosexual acts as sin, his responsibility in love is to go and confront him/her. Such confrontation are describe in Matthew 18:15-17, 2 Thessalonians14-15, James 4:11, James 5:19-20, 2 Thessalonians 2:14, Matthew 18:17, 1 Corinthians 5:9-13

Taken out of context, some of these actions might seem hateful, except when we consider that the ultimate hope is that the person will repent from his/her sin.

We see time and time again the posting of the scriptures that speak of love. I was looking the other day into some things about hell, and found that hell is spoke of in the Gospels, in 24 groups of scriptures. I then looked into love, and found that it is mentioned in 10 groups of scriptues in the Gospels. It seems that speaking of hell was very important when Jesus was here.

Of course, we can also see that really love is mentioned 34 times, because to warn someone of hell is done to try and keep someone from going there. If they didn't love them, why would they warn them?

If God is Sovereign, then he has the right to define what is right and wrong, what is sinful behavior and what is righteous. This may seem hateful and unfair towards people who disagree, but the Creator has the final word over the created! People have the freedom to believe it or reject it, but either way, we all will have to live with the consequences of our decisions.

Thank you.

I'm sick and tired of being viewed as a hater, too. To them, it's wrong of us to hate sin and all that it does to someone's mind (yeah, sin plays mind games with you and you'd be dumb if you actually tried to argue with that) and they call us haters, yet it's ok for them to automatically jump to WRONG conclusions as if they know our thoughts? Who knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit that is in him/her???

 

[artybloke]

homosexuality is sin,

No it isn't. Just because you like to cut things out of context and use them to justify your prejudice doesn't mean anyone else does.

and your protestations at not being prejudiced don't cut any ice, when you consistently refuse to look at the actual evidence and persist on accepting a bad translation and an out-of-context interpretation.

Take the log out of your own eye.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Hi arty,

No it isn't. Just because you like to cut things out of context and use them to justify your prejudice doesn't mean anyone else does.

Unfortunately for your side of the argument, the vast majority is on the other side. Granted, many (or most, even) don't spend much, if any, time to try to fully grasp the biblical view of homosexuality. But what about those who have spent alot of time on it, and come to the opposite conclusion as yourself?

and your protestations at not being prejudiced don't cut any ice, when you consistently refuse to look at the actual evidence and persist on accepting a bad translation and an out-of-context interpretation.

Even if one could pass off all the anti-same-sex sex on bad translations and ooc, where is the biblical evidence backing these sexual actions? And furthermore, if homosexuality was a valid God-given sexual orientation, why was it completely omitted? I've yet to find a passage along the lines of "for this reason a man shall leave his mother and father or mother and be united with his wife or husband, and they will become one flesh."

Take the log out of your own eye.

If someone believes that a person is proclaiming a sin as a blessing of God, then it is part of their Christian duty to attempt to correct this false teaching.

We all have logs and splinters, the problem is when we choose to either identify and repent of our sins or justify and defend them.

 

[Ohioprof]

Hi arty,


Unfortunately for your side of the argument, the vast majority is on the other side. Granted, many (or most, even) don't spend much, if any, time to try to fully grasp the biblical view of homosexuality. But what about those who have spent alot of time on it, and come to the opposite conclusion as yourself?



Even if one could pass off all the anti-same-sex sex on bad translations and ooc, where is the biblical evidence backing these sexual actions? And furthermore, if homosexuality was a valid God-given sexual orientation, why was it completely omitted? I've yet to find a passage along the lines of "for this reason a man shall leave his mother and father or mother and be united with his wife or husband, and they will become one flesh."



If someone believes that a person is proclaiming a sin as a blessing of God, then it is part of their Christian duty to attempt to correct this false teaching.

We all have logs and splinters, the problem is when we choose to either identify and repent of our sins or justify and defend them.

Actually the "vast majority" does not believe that "homosexuality" is a "sin." Polls by Gallup show that a majority of Americans now say that "homosexuality is an acceptable alternative lifestyle." I personally do not like the wording of the question, as being gay is not a "lifestyle." But this is how Gallup has worded the question for years, and they examine how people's responses have changed or stayed the same over time.

Also, in Massachusetts, where same-sex marriage is legal, a majority of people support the right to same-sex marriage, according to polls. And the state legislature recently declined to pass a proposed state constitutional amendment defining marriage a between only a man and a woman.

The times they are a-changin', my friend, and there is no "vast majority" looking upon same-sex relationships as a "sin." The vast majority in your church may do so, but not in the wider society. No one in my church congregation looks upon same-sex marriage that way. We took a churchwide vote on welcoming gay people as we are, and the vote was unanimous in favor of welcoming gay people as we are: as gay people. And my church Association, the Unitarian Universalist Association, has long supported the right to same-sex marriage.

 

[Ohioprof]

I did and thank you for noticing that.

Why are some people so fixated on sex? Why do you care if a loving gay couple has sex in their own bedroom? It's no different from a loving heterosexual couple having sex in their own bedroom. And we have no business sticking our noses into the bedrooms of consenting adults.

Being gay is about loving our spouses, about creating and raising families. Sex is just one part of a much bigger relationship. It's no different from heterosexual relationships and families.

 

[J3suzR0x]

Well, i jus think gays r bad. IfGoD wanted ppl 2 b gay, he wuld have made jesus gay so we wuld no it was ok.
LOLOL! CAN U EVEN IMAGINE A GAY JESUS?!
Hay poor man, ur feet need sum washin? Mmm...man feet.
Eeww grross. Made myself SICK!

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Actually the "vast majority" does not believe that "homosexuality" is a "sin." Polls by Gallup show that a majority of Americans now say that "homosexuality is an acceptable alternative lifestyle." I personally do not like the wording of the question, as being gay is not a "lifestyle." But this is how Gallup has worded the question for years, and they examine how people's responses have changed or stayed the same over time.

I was referring to christians, theres no denying the feelings of the main denominations on the subject.

The times they are a-changin', my friend, and there is no "vast majority" looking upon same-sex relationships as a "sin." The vast majority in your church may do so, but not in the wider society. No one in my church congregation looks upon same-sex marriage that way. We took a churchwide vote on welcoming gay people as we are, and the vote was unanimous in favor of welcoming gay people as we are: as gay people. And my church Association, the Unitarian Universalist Association, has long supported the right to same-sex marriage.

Once again, I'm not talking about society's view on homosexuality. I'm speaking of the Christian view. Every church I've been to (mostly protestant, some catholic) are in agreement that it is sinful, and I've never taken a poll but I am confident that the majority of churches throughout the denominations are in agreement.

From a completely secular standpoint I have no issue with homosexuality or gay marriage, as neither negatively effect my family or life.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Why are some people so fixated on sex? Why do you care if a loving gay couple has sex in their own bedroom? It's no different from a loving heterosexual couple having sex in their own bedroom. And we have no business sticking our noses into the bedrooms of consenting adults.

Being gay is about loving our spouses, about creating and raising families. Sex is just one part of a much bigger relationship. It's no different from heterosexual relationships and families.

Prof,

It's not about what people are doing/not doing in their bedrooms. It's about attempting to rationalize what we see as a sinful action, and as christians we are supposed to stop the spread of false doctrine.