Homosexuality

[Ohioprof]

Spirit-filled Christians makeit a habit to know. He has told us we have the mind of Christ.

If you believed the bible and believed in Jesus Christ and what He tells you, you'd know that, but as you consider your "faith" as some sort of smorgasbord, you miss the gems of real truth that Jesus came to give us...that teach us how to live righteously. What a waste.

I don't claim to be all-knowing. But one thing I do know: you and other people are not all-knowing either. And you do not speak for God.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I don't claim to be all-knowing. But one thing I do know: you and other people are not all-knowing either. And you do not speak for God.

Of course I am not all-knowing. Only God is, but He has told us we have the mind of Christ. We have the responsibility to be obedient to Him and live in the Spirit, not the flesh.

Yes, Spirit-led Christians speak for God all the time! God depends on it. You don't seem to realize how God works in this world, how Jesus came and died and rose again and how His Holy Spirit has come to teach us all things, and He speaks through His servants here.

You aren't arguing with us--you are arguing with God, and denigrating HIM as well as His kids.

 

[artybloke]

God depends on it.

And here's me thinking God was omnipotent, when all along he really needs a bunch of small-minded bibliolatrists to go around speaking on his behalf.

Silly me!

 

[Ohioprof]

Of course I am not all-knowing. Only God is. ut He has told us we have the mind of Christ. We have the responsibility to be obedient to Him and live in the Spirit, not the flesh.

Yes, Spirit-led Christians speak for God all the time! God depends on it. You don't seem to realize how God works in this world, how Jesus came and died and rose again and how His Holy Spirit has come to teach us all things, and He speaks through His servants here.

You aren't arguing with us--you are arguing with God, and denigrating HIM as well as His kids.

I have never denigrated God. I have never denigrated you either. I disagree strongly with most of what you post, but I respect you as a person, and I do respect your commitment to your faith. I fear, though, that you are so focused on your particular beliefs that you refuse to accept other people's beliefs and spiritual practices that happen to differ from yours.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

And here's me thinking God was omnipotent, when all along he really needs a bunch of small-minded bibliolatrists to go around speaking on his behalf.

Silly me!

If you applied your form of liberal interpretation to that then you'd clearly see that she stated that God wills us to do things, and that the context is lost in interpretation.

It's not about open-mindedness, its about a person knowing their concept of God's truth. If you were using people's convictions on the subject as a meter of their closed-mindedness, then the accusation fits most around the entire thread.

 

[Floatingaxe]

And here's me thinking God was omnipotent, when all along he really needs a bunch of small-minded bibliolatrists to go around speaking on his behalf.

Silly me!

Yes, for His own reasons, the Almighty has chosen to limit himself to working in and through man.

 

[David Brider]

Do you need spoonfeeding?

No. I just feel that if a doctrine's worth adopting, it should have good Biblical support. This particular one - despite being prevalent throughout much of Christianity - seems to be lacking good Biblical support. So I'm dubious as to whether it's a particularly good doctrine.

And btw, there's no need to patronise me.

Yes, it's the word of God, inspired and perfect for our waiting, hungry hearts.

And yet it never claims to be "the Word of God".

You are devaluing the bible.

This is rather ironic - I read the Bible for what it says, trying not to put my own "spin" on it, and I'm accused of devaluing it?

We have to be careful about bringing our issues here frequently, as there are people who are on the fence about Christ and need nothing more than a push from someone else's doubt to send them off the fence and into disbelief...and we all know where that leads.

Of course, this whole section of the forum is precisely about bringing a particular issue here. Personally, I'd have thought someone who's fencesitting about Christ are more likely to be "pushed into disbelief" by homophobic attitudes than by someone pointing out that the Bible never claims to be the Word of God (particularly as someone who's on the fence probably didn't believe that the Bible was the Word of God in the first place...)

We are to be evangelizing, foremost, don't you think?

Well, in theory this part of the forum is for discussion between Christians, so evangelising here is quite likely to be preaching to the converted...

David.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I have never denigrated God. I have never denigrated you either. I disagree strongly with most of what you post, but I respect you as a person, and I do respect your commitment to your faith. I fear, though, that you are so focused on your particular beliefs that you refuse to accept other people's beliefs and spiritual practices that happen to differ from yours.

It's not about beliefs. It's about the living Jesus. It's all about Him. My focus is as it should be: Jesus and His extreme love for us that brought Him from heaven to die a horrible death for our sin.

 

[Floatingaxe]

No. I just feel that if a doctrine's worth adopting, it should have good Biblical support. This particular one - despite being prevalent throughout much of Christianity - seems to be lacking good Biblical support. So I'm dubious as to whether it's a particularly good doctrine.

Oh well.

And yet it never claims to be "the Word of God".

We call it the Word of God. Call it "Scriptures", then, if it bothers you.

This is rather ironic - I read the Bible for what it says, trying not to put my own "spin" on it, and I'm accused of devaluing it?

Yes, you are, actually.

Of course, this whole section of the forum is precisely about bringing a particular issue here. Personally, I'd have thought someone who's fencesitting about Christ are more likely to be "pushed into disbelief" by homophobic attitudes than by someone pointing out that the Bible never claims to be the Word of God (particularly as someone who's on the fence probably didn't believe that the Bible was the Word of God in the first place...)

So, add more doubt upon doubt. Brilliant work, there. Homophobia doesn't exist here.

Well, in theory this part of the forum is for discussion between Christians, so evangelising here is quite likely to be preaching to the converted...

OY! You are mistaken, indeed! There are several in this forum who need Jesus Christ desperately. I am shocked that you cannot see it.

 

[Ohioprof]

It's not about beliefs. It's about the living Jesus. It's all about Him. My focus is as it should be: Jesus and His extreme love for us that brought Him from heaven to die a horrible death for our sin.

Yet you continue to insist that your particular beliefs are the only right beliefs. And you continue to speak as though you are God, announcing that your beliefs are God's beliefs. You have made beliefs central. Now you say that it's not about beliefs.

If it's really about following Jesus, which I think nearly everyone in this forum agrees on, then why not stop denigrating gay people's love relationships, accept us as we are, and let Jesus do his work in people's hearts. If all gay people need to do is come to Jesus, why don't you let gay people come to Jesus and be ourselves as we do that. If Jesus really wants gay people to stop being gay, won't he make us not gay? If that's not what Jesus wants, and I think it is not what he wants, then we will be good Christian followers of Jesus as gay people.

You and others here will win over more gay people to Jesus if you stop attacking our love as "sin" and simply welcome gay people as we are into your hearts and into your churches.

 

[Ohioprof]

Oh well.




We call it the Word of God. Call it "Scriptures", then, if it bothers you.



Yes, you are, actually.



So, add more doubt upon doubt. Brilliant work, there. Homophobia doesn't exist here.




OY! You are mistaken, indeed! There are several in this forum who need Jesus Christ desperately. I am shocked that you cannot see it.

All of the people I have seen posting here do try to follow Jesus. We just have different ideas about what Jesus calls us to do. But the people here have all, as far as I can see, accepted Jesus and try to follow him.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Yet you continue to insist that your particular beliefs are the only right beliefs. And you continue to speak as though you are God, announcing that your beliefs are God's beliefs. You have made beliefs central. Now you say that it's not about beliefs.

If it's really about following Jesus, which I think nearly everyone in this forum agrees on, then why not stop denigrating gay people's love relationships, accept us as we are, and let Jesus do his work in people's hearts. If all gay people need to do is come to Jesus, why don't you let gay people come to Jesus and be ourselves as we do that. If Jesus really wants gay people to stop being gay, won't he make us not gay? If that's not what Jesus wants, and I think it is not what he wants, then we will be good Christian followers of Jesus as gay people.

You and others here will win over more gay people to Jesus if you stop attacking our love as "sin" and simply welcome gay people as we are into your hearts and into your churches.

If you were willing to follow Jesus and hear those who know Him personally concerning what His Word says, then we'd be getting somewhere. As it is, you and yours refuse Him, and confuse yourselves about His truth, and actually mock Him and His sacrifice for you.

You can't expect Jesus to do all the work for you. He expects you to LAY DOWN your sins at His cross and follow Him--OBEY Him. Only then will you ever be free of the bondage of homosexuality. You must repent and renounce it...He will take it from you.

 

[Floatingaxe]

All of the people I have seen posting here do try to follow Jesus. We just have different ideas about what Jesus calls us to do. But the people here have all, as far as I can see, accepted Jesus and try to follow him.

So you say...

 

[Ohioprof]

If you were willing to follow Jesus and hear those who know Him personally concerning what His Word says, then we'd be getting somewhere. As it is you and yours refuse Him, and confuse yourselves about His truth, and actually mock Him and His sacrifice for you.

You can't expect Jesus to do all the work for you. He expects you to LAY DOWN your soins at His ross and follow Him--OBEY Him. Only then will you ever be free of the bondage of homosexuality. You must repent and renounce it...He will take it from you.

I have never mocked Jesus. I try to follow the teachings of Jesus. I don't agree with you about what Jesus actually said. Believing differently from you is not "mocking" Jesus or anyone. It's just holding different beliefs, a different view of who Jesus was and what he did.

 

[Ohioprof]

So you say...

It's true. I have not seen anyone here claiming not to follow Jesus. People just have different ideas about what following Jesus means.

 

[artybloke]

If you applied your form of liberal interpretation to that then you'd clearly see that she stated that God wills us to do things, and that the context is lost in interpretation.

Only doing what she does to Scripture to her own words. Of course God wants us to love one another, and our neighbours, and ourselves. And we may well disagree about what God's will is: but that's the point, isn't it? Two people - equally Christian, equally spirit-filled - come to the scriptures and read two different messages. One claims that their interpretation comes straight from the mouth of God, and won't listen to counter arguments - the other hedges things around with qualifications and ifs and buts because they are carefully seeking the heart of the message, the spirit of it if you like, rather than the letter of the law (that as Jesus says, kills.) Should I go with the more considered, pondered on and struggled with message, or the black-and-white I'm-speakin-for-God certainty of the fanatic?
Does God shout at us or reason with us?

It's not about open-mindedness, its about a person knowing their concept of God's truth.

It's as much about one person trying to impose their concept of God on other people as anything else.

 

[David Brider]

No. I just feel that if a doctrine's worth adopting, it should have good Biblical support. This particular one - despite being prevalent throughout much of Christianity - seems to be lacking good Biblical support. So I'm dubious as to whether it's a particularly good doctrine.

Oh well.

So what are you saying - that even if a doctrine is lacking in sound Biblical support, we should nevertheless stick with it?

And yet it never claims to be "the Word of God".

We call it the Word of God. Call it "Scriptures", then, if it bothers you.

I'm rather curious as to why it doesn't bother you. Whether one calls the Bible, "the Bible" or "the Scriptures" doesn't really seem too much of an issue (I mean, heck, you can call it "Fred" for all the difference it makes to me), but the point I've made repeatedly is that "the Word of God" is a very specific Scriptural phrase that is never once used within Scripture to refer to Scripture. It doesn't bother you that you're effectively devaluing the Word of God by likening it to a collection of writings?

This is rather ironic - I read the Bible for what it says, trying not to put my own "spin" on it, and I'm accused of devaluing it?

Yes, you are, actually.

How does that work, exactly?

Homophobia doesn't exist here.

*ahem* It's here, all right.

Well, in theory this part of the forum is for discussion between Christians, so evangelising here is quite likely to be preaching to the converted...

OY! You are mistaken, indeed! There are several in this forum who need Jesus Christ desperately. I am shocked that you cannot see it.

In foru.ms there are Christians and non-Christians alike, but this particularly subforum is specifically for dialogue between Christians.

David.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

HI david,
This subforum is for Christian theological debates, and since the forum change it's open to everyone. So anyone can participate regardless of their beliefs, but to actually make progress they should really stay within the Christian Theology context. (although it rarely happens)

In foru.ms there are Christians and non-Christians alike, but this particularly subforum is specifically for dialogue between Christians.

 

[Ohioprof]

If you were willing to follow Jesus and hear those who know Him personally concerning what His Word says, then we'd be getting somewhere. As it is you and yours refuse Him, and confuse yourselves about His truth, and actually mock Him and His sacrifice for you.

You can't expect Jesus to do all the work for you. He expects you to LAY DOWN your soins at His ross and follow Him--OBEY Him. Only then will you ever be free of the bondage of homosexuality. You must repent and renounce it...He will take it from you.

Sorry, I don't believe in that. I have no intention of doing "work" to try to stop being how God made me. That's that.

 

[*Starlight*]

A homosexual christian is any oxymoron.

Nope, it's not. Being in love with someone of the same sex doesn't prevent a person from following Christ's teachings in any way.