Homosexuality

[davedjy]

Because I don't think a loving and benign God would deliberately set people up to fail by making it so that the ONLY way they can experience the fundamental human condition of romantic love, the ONLY way they can have the mutual caring, supporting relationship you get from being in a partnership, would be worthy of damnation.

Further, its about the only sin that isn't logical. All the others are either sins against others, sins against the self, or sins against God... but homosexuality is a matter of consenting adults doing what comes naturally,. It doesnt harm ANYONE.

Well said, Enemy Party! Rarely do I agree with you, but I do here! ROFL!!!!!!!!

 

[MercuryAndy]

Because I don't think a loving and benign God would deliberately set people up to fail by making it so that the ONLY way they can experience the fundamental human condition of romantic love, the ONLY way they can have the mutual caring, supporting relationship you get from being in a partnership, would be worthy of damnation.

Further, its about the only sin that isn't logical. All the others are either sins against others, sins against the self, or sins against God... but homosexuality is a matter of consenting adults doing what comes naturally,. It doesnt harm ANYONE.

unless its the people in pulp fiction then they get killed with a sword. but they werent nice anyway.

 

[angelmom01]

It's not...it just so happens that is what this thread is about!

I understand that. But, as someone else already pointed out, it is something that comes up quite often - as if to say that 'THIS SIN' is so much more abominable than any 'other sin' we can think of. I'm wondering why, in light of ALL the things that God called an ABOMINATION?

God calls even a proud look or lying or those who sow discord or who bare false witness, etc "an abomination". You don't see many people talk about most of those things like they do homosexuality. Not even adultery gets this much attention, it seems.

That is why I asked, not because I don't know what the topic is. Why does THIS topic come up so much more often then the others? Why are so many so much more "passionate" about THIS 'sin' then they are about others? So my question is relative to 'the topic', isn't it?

angelmom

 

[Mling]

While you are waiting...could you show me where in scripture is says that everything must be layed out in scripture...or that the scriptures are the only authority???

Is the "while you are waiting" comment meant to suggest that he'll be waiting for quite a while? Because...maybe...we all know that what he's asking for doesn't exist?

Well isn't that interesting...
Now, generally, during a discussion or debate, if two people make opposing assertions, it is up to the person who is deviating from logic or common sense, or who is suggesting something more extreme or complex, to prove their point. If we both hear a funny sound, and you say, "I think that's thunder," and I say "No, I think it's an earthquake," and there's a storm coming in but we don't live in an earthquake prone area, then it is up to me to explain why I think it is more likely to be an earthquake. You do not need to prove that stroms produce thunder.

That said, if you seem to recognize that the things he was looking for don't exist (that is, any reasonable Scriptural support for the assertion that homosexual acts are inherently wrong, that aren't do to misunderstandings or bad translations), then the ball is in your court now. The Bible does, we can all agree, very clearly support love and marriage, but you are asserting, without any obvious support, that there are unwritten exceptions. That God doesn't really support all love and marriage--only certain types.
As it has been shown that there is no obvious support for this assertion, it is now up to you to prove your point, not those who argue that these "exceptions" are no such thing.

So, back to you, and repeating the previously asked question: where is your support for this assertion?

 

[IamAdopted]

Because I don't think a loving and benign God would deliberately set people up to fail by making it so that the ONLY way they can experience the fundamental human condition of romantic love, the ONLY way they can have the mutual caring, supporting relationship you get from being in a partnership, would be worthy of damnation.

Further, its about the only sin that isn't logical. All the others are either sins against others, sins against the self, or sins against God... but homosexuality is a matter of consenting adults doing what comes naturally,. It doesnt harm ANYONE.

Yes He is loving. But that is only one of His characteristics. He is also HOLY. He is also JUST, and He also has WRATH. So you have to take God as who He is in all not just a part of Him..

 

[MercuryAndy]

Is the "while you are waiting" comment meant to suggest that he'll be waiting for quite a while? Because...maybe...we all know that what he's asking for doesn't exist?

Well isn't that interesting...
Now, generally, during a discussion or debate, if two people make opposing assertions, it is up to the person who is deviating from logic or common sense, or who is suggesting something more extreme or complex, to prove their point. If we both hear a funny sound, and you say, "I think that's thunder," and I say "No, I think it's an earthquake," and there's a storm coming in but we don't live in an earthquake prone area, then it is up to me to explain why I think it is more likely to be an earthquake. You do not need to prove that stroms produce thunder.

That said, if you seem to recognize that the things he was looking for don't exist (that is, any reasonable Scriptural support for the assertion that homosexual acts are inherently wrong, that aren't do to misunderstandings or bad translations), then the ball is in your court now. The Bible does, we can all agree, very clearly support love and marriage, but you are asserting, without any obvious support, that there are unwritten exceptions. That God doesn't really support all love and marriage--only certain types.
As it has been shown that there is no obvious support for this assertion, it is now up to you to prove your point, not those who argue that these "exceptions" are no such thing.

So, back to you, and repeating the previously asked question: where is your support for this assertion?

If he only likes certain types why didnt he say so?

 

[Mling]

Yes He is loving. But that is only one of His characteristics. He is also HOLY. He is also JUST, and He also has WRATH. So you have to take God as who He is in all not just a part of Him..

So, creating somebody to fail, and then punishing them for the way you created them...is that Holy or Just? It's certainly wrathful, but I assume we are talking about Holy and Just wrath, not willy-nilly "smiting everybody I can get my hands on because I woke up on the wrong side of nebula today."

 

[Mling]

If he only likes certain types why didnt he say so?

Ok, I could have worded it that simply...but...my post is so much more...ermmm....literary...or something.

But yeah, that's what I'm asking.

 

[StTherese]

Because I don't think a loving and benign God would deliberately set people up to fail by making it so that the ONLY way they can experience the fundamental human condition of romantic love, the ONLY way they can have the mutual caring, supporting relationship you get from being in a partnership, would be worthy of damnation.

Further, its about the only sin that isn't logical. All the others are either sins against others, sins against the self, or sins against God... but homosexuality is a matter of consenting adults doing what comes naturally,. It doesnt harm ANYONE.

You are making false assertions. ALL sin is against God! God is no more responsible for the disordered desires of a homosexual as He is of the disordered desires of a heterosexual. God created us good. It is the result of the fall of man, the sin of Adam of Eve, that has resulted in our concupiscence (the attraction we have for sin). God is not the author of sin.
There is a natural order in which God has created us. In this, He created us man and woman. The seed of man has a specific purpose of bringing forth new life which grows inside of a woman...this is the natural order of things. Anything set against the natural law set forth by God is set against God.
In this life, we will suffer. This is the result of original sin. Suffering has its place in reconciliation with God. We must let go of our own desires and make an active choice to do the will of God. This can mean that if we are inclined to same sex attraction that we must not act on it...the same can be said for a married woman who is attracted to another man. She must not act on this attraction or it is SIN!!

 

[IamAdopted]

Because I don't think a loving and benign God would deliberately set people up to fail by making it so that the ONLY way they can experience the fundamental human condition of romantic love, the ONLY way they can have the mutual caring, supporting relationship you get from being in a partnership, would be worthy of damnation.

Further, its about the only sin that isn't logical. All the others are either sins against others, sins against the self, or sins against God... but homosexuality is a matter of consenting adults doing what comes naturally,. It doesnt harm ANYONE.

sins against God.. Okay well God made Male and female to become one flesh. NO where is it written that He made male and male or female and female and that they could become one flesh. So this act goes against even from the beginning what God created Humans to be. So this is an act against what God said was good..Therefore is come short of Gods mark. Therefore it is sin. Marriage was intended for male and female.. So they could become one flesh..We are to Love God first and foremost.. Above all else.. And in doing so we have to live by His word.. And even the Apostle Paul said do not be deceived for neither will these inherit the Kingdom of God.

 

[Celticflower]

And to CelticFlower, I didn't find what EnemyPartyII said funny at all, as it is not truth. Paul was a wonderful peacemaker, as is the Holy Spirit. Yet the flesh wages war with the Spirit, doesn't it?

I meant "funny" in its totally absurdity. I often find it funny when someone who wants us to think they know more shows us they know little indeed.

 

[IamAdopted]

It wasn't God whom set up man for a fall. It was the enemy of God that did this..And many fall to his lies.. and for this God has given us His word. His truth so we know what God says is sin and what is not sin. We can try to argue our way out of it but it won't work..Adam even tried this when he blamed Eve but God still said sin is sin.. It is written all over in His written God breathed word.. You do not argue against us. You are arguing against the word of God.. This is why He gave us His word..

 

[StTherese]

So, creating somebody to fail, and then punishing them for the way you created them...is that Holy or Just? It's certainly wrathful, but I assume we are talking about Holy and Just wrath, not willy-nilly "smiting everybody I can get my hands on because I woke up on the wrong side of nebula today."

Ever heard of original sin? Concupiscence? The fall of man? The sin of Adam and Eve?

 

[IamAdopted]

So, creating somebody to fail, and then punishing them for the way you created them...is that Holy or Just? It's certainly wrathful, but I assume we are talking about Holy and Just wrath, not willy-nilly "smiting everybody I can get my hands on because I woke up on the wrong side of nebula today."

God didn't create you with homosexualality....Sin did that.. Sin entered into the human woman and man through the disobedience of one man.. Adam..

13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.

so if someone has the thoughts and tendencies towards homosexuality it is not from God.. It is from the evil one.. And when you give into this temptation it becomes sin.. Which you alone entered into it.. No one forced you it was your choice..

 

[EnemyPartyII]

It wasn't God whom set up man for a fall.

If God sets up the rules so having a loving commited relationship with the only person you can concieve of as being "the one for you", is damnation worthy, and then makes homosexual people in his own image , whom will run afowl this rule... who, precisely, is doing the setting up?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

God didn't create you with homosexualality....Sin did that..

How do you figure?

 

[StTherese]

If God sets up the rules so having a loving commited relationship with the only person you can concieve of as being "the one for you", is damnation worthy, and then makes homosexual people in his own image , whom will run afowl this rule... who, precisely, is doing the setting up?

Well, here's the thing...God did not create sin! He created us with free-will to choose His will or not to choose His will. To go against His will is SIN. A result of the FALL of man is ORIGINAL SIN. You should read more about it. This is the reason we have inclinations to sin...as in the case of homosexual tendencies. This "only one for you" stuff is for the birds. The attraction we feel for someone is just that...an attraction...it does not equal love. Love is a choice!

 

[EnemyPartyII]

so if someone has the thoughts and tendencies towards homosexuality it is not from God.. It is from the evil one

nonesense.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

The attraction we feel for someone is just that...an attraction...it does not equal love. Love is a choice!

I assume you are straight. Prove what you are saying... heres a fun experiment... go out and CHOOSE to romanticly love a women, see how far you get.

 

[StTherese]

How do you figure?

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11312a.htm