Homosexuality

[SoldierKG]

I am here now to spread the truth about homosexuality. Many people call it a choice, and many condemn gays for their feelings. The Bible is clear that acting upon homosexuality is wrong, but it does not say that simply being a homosexual is wrong. I have recently been involved with conversations with Christians concerning homosexuality and many of them were very unloving in their attitudes......I just thought I'd let people know what I do. If you know a homosexual person than be loving to that person. Chances are that they are homosexual because 1.They did not have a relationship with their father. 2. They are insecure in their sexuality and are experimenting. 3. They were raoed as a child and told it was ok or a "game." 4. They were born that way. 5. etc etc etc. There are many possible reasons for homosexuality, we as Christians have a responsibility to love not condemn, to accept not reject. We have a bad image in the world, Christ would probably be unhappy with most of us (including myself) so let's get better, let's change, let's make the world a better place showing the true love of Christ...using scripture as our foundation we cannot fail.

 

[bella1955]

But it is NOT a choice. Do you know most if not all men find out about the ages of 12-15? I doubt Jesus would condemn all teenagers to hell because it is something they couldn't help. Do you think people want to be gay?? It is too hard in this life. I have sympathy towards gay people, and I'm sure Christ would also.
Just read the Old Testament when everyone slept with everyone.

 

[yodafett]

But it is NOT a choice. Do you know most if not all men find out about the ages of 12-15? I doubt Jesus would condemn all teenagers to hell because it is something they couldn't help. Do you think people want to be gay?? It is too hard in this life. I have sympathy towards gay people, and I'm sure Christ would also.
Just read the Old Testament when everyone slept with everyone.

I don't subscribe to the list of it IS a choice, or it ISN'T a choice as the deciding factor, but yes, I think some people DO choose that live style because of how it's portrayed in the media. It's become the "in" thing now. Just like how, in some twisted hollywood dream, that being oppressed is fashionable.

 

[bella1955]

Yoda, did you not read my post about teenagers?? Hello?

 

[yodafett]

Yoda, did you not read my post about teenagers?? Hello?

Yes I DID read it, I disagreed with your conclusion, that's all. If anything, I think determining orinetation between the ages of 12-15 proves it's a decision, otherwise, it would occur earlier when the average child becomes aware of sexuality at all.

If it ISN'T choice, they would be wired that way from birth, not "find out" in their teen years. What age group do you think a majority of advertising (and the media that I mentioned) is targeted at?

As for kindness and accepting them, I agree that we need to practice loving ALL people like Christ does, regardless of skin, race, creed, sexual orientation, or favorite cereal.

 

[ScottBot]

Hi, thanks for not being offensive!


Yes I DID read it, did you read mine, or just see that I disagree? I disagreed with your conclusion, that's all. If anything, I think determining orinetation between the ages of 12-15 proves it's a decision, otherwise, it would occur earlier when the average child becomes aware of sexuality at all.

If it ISN'T choice, they would be wired that way from birth, not "find out" in their teen years. What age group do you think a majority of advertising (and the media that I mentioned) is targeted at?

As for kindness and accepting them, I agree that we need to practice loving ALL people like Christ does, regardless of skin, race, creed, sexual orientation, or favorite cereal.

Love the sinner, hate the sin.

 

[yodafett]

Love the sinner, hate the sin.

Truth, and if I came off as appearing to support any other agend, I apologize to all those offended.

 

[ScottBot]

Truth, and if I came off as appearing to support any other agend, I apologize to all those offended.

Its important to recognize it as sin though. Too many people think that loving the sinner means letting them do whatever they want in the name of love.

 

[yodafett]

Definitely! The fine line between loving someone in spite of their sin and trying to help them see it as that and loving them and just hoping they see it on their own can be very deceptive, especially the closer you are to it.

 

[stumpjumper]

Thread moved to Christian Philosophy and Ethics

 

[savedfromdistruction]

Acording to the bible homosexuality is sin and of siuch a nature that under the law it called for the death penality by God Himself.

It is a choice like any sin. No one has to carry out a homosexual act any more then anyone has to lie, steal, be an adulterer.

Finally we are told why people become homosexuals as well as any other type of sin in Romans 1:23-32.

I am here now to spread the truth about homosexuality. Many people call it a choice, and many condemn gays for their feelings. The Bible is clear that acting upon homosexuality is wrong, but it does not say that simply being a homosexual is wrong. I have recently been involved with conversations with Christians concerning homosexuality and many of them were very unloving in their attitudes......I just thought I'd let people know what I do. If you know a homosexual person than be loving to that person. Chances are that they are homosexual because 1.They did not have a relationship with their father. 2. They are insecure in their sexuality and are experimenting. 3. They were raoed as a child and told it was ok or a "game." 4. They were born that way. 5. etc etc etc. There are many possible reasons for homosexuality, we as Christians have a responsibility to love not condemn, to accept not reject. We have a bad image in the world, Christ would probably be unhappy with most of us (including myself) so let's get better, let's change, let's make the world a better place showing the true love of Christ...using scripture as our foundation we cannot fail.

 

[SoldierKG]

Acording to the bible homosexuality is sin and of siuch a nature that under the law it called for the death penality by God Himself.

It is a choice like any sin. No one has to carry out a homosexual act any more then anyone has to lie, steal, be an adulterer.

Finally we are told why people become homosexuals as well as any other type of sin in Romans 1:23-32.

Being a homosexual is not a sin, participating in homosexual acts is...the Bible there is not saying what causes it if you know the origional texts and read closely you will see that they already had the desire when God gave them over to it. The word used in the origional text means sodomite not homosexual. It is wrong to think God condemns gays, just for being gay, he condemns only those who do gay things such as same sex relations. The penalty mentioned in leviticus is not for being gay it is for having same sex relations. there isnot scripture to support the anti-gay Christiand crowd which feels that gay people are evil, wicked, or going to hell. I Know many gay people that DO NOT WANT to be gay, how do you explain that then? if your attracted to something your attracted to it. It's notlike you decided to be that way. Did you one day decide to be straight? or were you always that way?

 

[ScottBot]

Being a homosexual is not a sin, participating in homosexual acts is...the Bible there is not saying what causes it if you know the origional texts and read closely you will see that they already had the desire when God gave them over to it. The word used in the origional text means sodomite not homosexual. It is wrong to think God condemns gays, just for being gay, he condemns only those who do gay things such as same sex relations. The penalty mentioned in leviticus is not for being gay it is for having same sex relations. there isnot scripture to support the anti-gay Christiand crowd which feels that gay people are evil, wicked, or going to hell. I Know many gay people that DO NOT WANT to be gay, how do you explain that then? if your attracted to something your attracted to it. It's notlike you decided to be that way. Did you one day decide to be straight? or were you always that way?

This is a good point. We are all born with the susceptability to certain types of sin. It is not the temptation to sin that causes us problems, it is when we give in to that temptation.

Some may be tempted to steal, some to lie, some to kill, some to lust. God looks just as unfavorably on a heterosexual who fornicates or commits adultery.

 

[yodafett]

Being a homosexual is not a sin, participating in homosexual acts is...

The penalty mentioned in leviticus is not for being gay it is for having same sex relations.

How do you reconcile these views with the content and message of Matthew 5:28

[bible]
but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
[/bible]

If we do something with our heart and mind, to God, it's the same as doing it physically, yes?

The word used in the origional text means sodomite not homosexual.

How do you define sodomite? Sodomite typically refers to someone who engages in certain physical acts of a homosexual nature, doesnt' it?

It is wrong to think God condemns gays, just for being gay, he condemns only those who do gay things such as same sex relations.

Are you honestly contesting that God makes these people suffer their entire lives with desires that He will punish them for acting upon? How well does that coincide with the rest of the bible?
1 Corinthians 10:13
[bible]
There hath no temptation taken you but such as man can bear: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation make also the way of escape, that ye may be able to endure it.
[/bible]


I will accept that some people ARE tempted by the act and lifestyle more, yes, but I still don't understand how the "no choice" mindset reconciles with scripture...

 

[SuddenlyISee]

How do you define sodomite? Sodomite typically refers to someone who engages in certain physical acts of a homosexual nature, doesnt' it?

That is what a sodomite is now because people have come to connect homosexuality with the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. However, in Biblical context the word Sodomite means a person from Sodom.

 

[ScottBot]

That is what a sodomite is now because people have come to connect homosexuality with the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. However, in Biblical context the word Sodomite means a person from Sodom.

What happened to Sodom? Why?

If memory serves me right (which it does), God promised not to destroy Sodom if Abram could find 5 righteous people there. Abram couldn't. Their sin was not lack of hospitality. Sodom was destroyed because it was filled with aggressive, abusive homosexuals who preferred their distasteful sexual appetites to even a young virgin girl (Lot offered his daughters up to the men, who refused them in favor of Lot's visitors, nearly breaking down his door to get to them).

 

[yodafett]

But wasn't that one of the things that Sodom was punished for? Sorry I'm not trying to derail this topic, I just want to make sure that I'm clear, and being clear, in return. God's punishment of Sodom had nothing to do with homosexuality? Then why the reference to it later?

 

[SuddenlyISee]

What happened to Sodom? Why?

But wasn't that one of the things that Sodom was punished for?

The parts of the Bible that refer to why Sodom was punished say things like "their sins were grievous" and "they were wicked before the Lord". God never actually specifies what they did specifically. The closest we get to an explanation is what happened at Lots door, which according to some, is not translated well or understood in the context of the time. At best, we can say that we really don't know why that happened. Chances are, it was not just about sex.

God specifically states why Sodom was going to be destroyed before it happened and then why it happened after. In neither occurence did God say, "because they were all so very gay." All that is said is that they were wicked, their cries were great, and their sins were grievous.

Sorry I'm not trying to derail this topic, I just want to make sure that I'm clear, and being clear, in return. God's punishment of Sodom had nothing to do with homosexuality? Then why the reference to it later?

I'm not saying it had nothing to do with homosexuality because I don't know what it had to do with. God never actually said. My point is that no one really knows.

I'm not sure what reference you are talking about. If you are talking about Lots door, there are many explanations. If you are talking about the reference in the law, there are many arguments against it continuing to be an issue. If you are talking about our current use of the word "sodomite", I'd say it is because somewhere along the way Sodom and homosexuality became interwoven and the meaning changed. Much how the word gay used to mean "happy" but now means "homosexual" and that is no reflection on the euphoria of being homosexual, but is just one of those interesting linguistic events.

 

[SuddenlyISee]

If memory serves me right (which it does),

Clearly you've already decided that you have a firm grasp on this subject so I'm sure there is little point in my responding. However....

God promised not to destroy Sodom if Abram could find 5 righteous people there. Abram couldn't.

Right. So, if this is a story about homosexuality, that would mean that there were not 5 straight men in the entire city? Not 5 straight women? How likely is that really? They were obviously not very good people but God never said why.

Their sin was not lack of hospitality.

How do you know? Only Lot took in the angels, remember? Maybe it was a lack of hospitality. Obviously, that is unlikely but we really don't know.

Sodom was destroyed because it was filled with aggressive, abusive homosexuals who preferred their distasteful sexual appetites to even a young virgin girl (Lot offered his daughters up to the men, who refused them in favor of Lot's visitors, nearly breaking down his door to get to them).

Maybe their aggressiveness and abusiveness was their sin.

Maybe they wanted to rape the men not because of homosexuality but because it shows their superiority. That is understood by historians to be a very common practice in those times.

There are also many scholars who seem to think that the original writings didn't imply rape at all- or any other kind of sexual act.

God never said anything about homosexuality in the story of Sodom. Not once.

The only reason we have to believe it had anything to do with homosexuality is one story- the context of which is not fully understood and with words used that have possibly been mistranslated. For me, that is just not enough to make a determination.

 

[FleurDeLiz]

Yoda, did you not read my post about teenagers?? Hello?

I'm not sure when sexual orientation starts because I wanted to marry a boy in my neighborhood and he wanted to marry me when we were 5! lol Our parents were quite befuddled about this! (Oh, btw, their was no sex involved of course at 5 years old... we just would hold hands and tell everyone we wanted to get married.) I also remember a male neighbor younger than that trying to kiss me at age 4; he was also about age 4. So I'm not sure about "the teenage years"?

Also, there is a lot of media hype about homosexuality than in any previous generation... so I often wonder what influence media plays in one's sexual "orientation"?

I am here now to spread the truth about homosexuality. Many people call it a choice, and many condemn gays for their feelings. The Bible is clear that acting upon homosexuality is wrong, but it does not say that simply being a homosexual is wrong. I have recently been involved with conversations with Christians concerning homosexuality and many of them were very unloving in their attitudes......I just thought I'd let people know what I do. If you know a homosexual person than be loving to that person. Chances are that they are homosexual because 1.They did not have a relationship with their father. 2. They are insecure in their sexuality and are experimenting. 3. They were raoed as a child and told it was ok or a "game." 4. They were born that way. 5. etc etc etc. There are many possible reasons for homosexuality, we as Christians have a responsibility to love not condemn, to accept not reject. We have a bad image in the world, Christ would probably be unhappy with most of us (including myself) so let's get better, let's change, let's make the world a better place showing the true love of Christ...using scripture as our foundation we cannot fail.

However, I just wanted to also say, this is such a lovely post! And I would like to say that Christ is showing me this also.

We are absolutely to love one another and bear one another's burdens and hardships.