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Homosexuality: Wrong How?

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ChristianCenturion

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Anduril said:
God loves the whole world, but does that mean every single person in it? If God loves everyone then why are some going to perish? No, God only loves His elect, the children of God, He does not love the damned, thats why they are going to perish.

Here are some more verses:

Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Proverbs 6:
16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

That is why the word "whoever" is used. :|

1 Timothy 5:12
Thus they bring judgment on themselves, because they have broken their first pledge.

1 Timothy 5:24
The sins of some men are obvious, reaching the place of judgment ahead of them; the sins of others trail behind them.

James 2:13
because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!

But I would prefer to immitate my Lord and call people to repentance so that salvation can be accepted rather than condemn and deny that they have hope.

Matthew 4:17
From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.”

1 Peter 4:17
For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

Luke 4:43
But he said, “I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent.”

Luke 4:17-19
17The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written: 18“The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,
19to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor.”
 
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WarriorAngel

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Anduril said:
God loves the whole world, but does that mean every single person in it? If God loves everyone then why are some going to perish? No, God only loves His elect, the children of God, He does not love the damned, thats why they are going to perish.

Here are some more verses:

Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Proverbs 6:
16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,​
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Homosexuality is also an abomination before him. ;)
 
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Scally Cap

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Increased incidence of breast and ovarian cancer among lesbians is tied to lower childbearing rates, not lesbian sexual activity per se. The causality mimics that of straight women who do not give birth, or who do not have their first child before the age of 25 (IIRC).
 
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WarriorAngel

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[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]6:9 [/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: Neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers:[/font]

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]6:10 [/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Nor the effeminate nor liers with mankind nor thieves nor covetous nor drunkards nor railers nor extortioners shall possess the kingdom of God.[/font]



Increased incidence of breast and ovarian cancer among lesbians is tied to lower childbearing rates, not lesbian sexual activity per se. The causality mimics that of straight women who do not give birth, or who do not have their first child before the age of 25 (IIRC).

Another WAY nature is telling us to be in a monogamous married relationship....and that men and women are created to procreate. ;)
 
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kdet

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Noble Savage said:
I see the Christians have completely ignored my question:

Why is love evil when the body parts are similar?

Thank you in advance for answering.

How can God condemn two people just for loving each other?



First we must ask, what does the Bible say about love? I Corinthians 13 is known as the "love chapter." It contains the biblical definition of love. I Corinthians 13:5 states that love "thinketh no evil." Further, verse 6 declares that love: "Rejoices not in iniquity [unrighteousness, sin, wickedness], but rejoiceth in the truth." We have examined passages that demonstrate homosexuality is unrighteous and sinful. Thus, it is biblically impossible for true love to be the basis for a homosexual relationship. God does not condemn two people for loving each other; He condemns homosexual behavior because it is contrary to His created order and His character.


http://www.sbministries.org/thebible2.html
 
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ChristianCenturion

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Noble Savage said:
I see the Christians have completely ignored my question:

Why is love evil when the body parts are similar?

Thank you in advance for answering.

I love people with same body parts. :confused:

Do you mean, why is it wicked to give into lust for the same gender whether it be one or many?
Because on a fundamental level it is rejecting God. He didn't just slap parts together and called it good. He created us purposefully and gave boundaries so that we would know good from evil. And to reject those boundaries that He has established is to reject Him and commit wicked acts with the image of God (your body). :(
The boundaries are for our good anyway - both spiritually and physically.
 
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Spherical Time

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WarriorAngel said:
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/font]Another WAY nature is telling us to be in a monogamous married relationship....and that men and women are created to procreate.
Procreation does not require a married, monogamous relationship. Today it no longer even requires "relations" with a man.
 
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ChristianCenturion

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Spherical Time said:
Procreation does not require a married, monogamous relationship. Today it no longer even requires "relations" with a man.

Yes. You mean with the help of the correct gender's elements that is void from that relationship. Actually, that only furthers the opposite that you intended. :|
 
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WarriorAngel

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Perhaps you missed the whole of the argument.

God wants marriage.
God will commit damnation to fornicators, and we know anything outside of marriage is fornication.

WE already discussed that having sex too young can cause scarring. Having relations outside of a 'virginal' marriage of both sexes can administer STD's...which can bring on death, or suffering.

And as someone already quoted...Homosexuals are sinful, and therefore do not have love which is true, according to God's Word.

AS for 'artificial' insemination... this is not an act of loving sexuality and 'love' bound in the act of human sexuality...so I dont think artificial life procreating will ever satisfy the human psyche.
 
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Spherical Time

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ChristianCenturion said:
Do you mean, why is it wicked to give into lust for the same gender whether it be one or many?
Because on a fundamental level it is rejecting God.
I respectfully disagree. There is no rejection of God in homosexuality just like there is not an automatic acceptance of God in heterosexualiy.

ChristianCenturion said:
He didn't just slap parts together and called it good. He created us purposefully and gave boundaries so that we would know good from evil.
Almost all homosexuals will say that they know that their sexual orientation is not evil, and in fact they must lie if they want to hide it. God wouldn't just slap parts together, but perhaps his reason for creating homosexuals existence is not yet clear.

ChristianCenturion said:
And to reject those boundaries that He has established is to reject Him and commit wicked acts with the image of God (your body).
It would seem to me that homosexuals have clear boundaries: Not to lie about who they are, to find love, life and commitment in a more difficult world than most, perhaps even try to find the love of God in a society that rejects them.

ChristianCenturion said:
The boundaries are for our good anyway - both spiritually and physically.
I don't disagree, boundaries are good, especially in a childs development.

A famous gay person once said (and I would attribute the quote if I could remember who) something like: "Homosexuals were sent to earth by God as a test to see who would welcome this new, strange part of his creation and who would reject them out of hand."
 
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Spherical Time

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ChristianCenturion said:
Yes. You mean with the help of the correct gender's elements that is void from that relationship. Actually, that only furthers the opposite that you intended.
I'm sorry, I don't understand your reply.

WarriorAngel said:
Having relations outside of a 'virginal' marriage of both sexes can administer STD's...which can bring on death, or suffering.
Not spontaneously, and even those inside monogamous relationships can contract HIV. It might be less common, but it threatens everyone.

WarriorAngel said:
AS for 'artificial' insemination... this is not an act of loving sexuality and 'love' bound in the act of human sexuality...so I dont think artificial life procreating will ever satisfy the human psyche.
I think you are insinuating two things;

1. That artificial insemination creates "artificial" children.

2. That having a child without having sex is unfufilling.

Do you have any evidence for the later claim? Because, my opinion is the opposite, it is the child that is important, not the manner of conception.

As for the former claim, I think a "test-tube baby" is human, and so I think I have misunderstood you.
 
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ChristianCenturion

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Spherical Time said:
I respectfully disagree. There is no rejection of God in homosexuality just like there is not an automatic acceptance of God in heterosexualiy.
Sad try, but you error in trying to compare homosexual in general to heterosexual in general. Homosexual activity is out of the boundaries of righteousness; whereas heterosexual in not inherently within the boundaries, but it is one of the requirements. Nobody that I have seen here is advocating that all heterosexual activity is righteous... false premise seen and rejected.
Almost all homosexuals will say that they know that their sexual orientation is not evil, and in fact they must lie if they want to hide it. God wouldn't just slap parts together, but perhaps his reason for creating homosexuals existence is not yet clear.
As an Atheist, you are free to stick with your 'perhaps'. I however know what is right and I am not one that has conflicting interests in the matter. In fact, I have more to risk if stating something wrong than the unknowing person. God gave us many gifts, one of which is sexual pleasure. Sin is a perversion of those gifts.
It would seem to me that homosexuals have clear boundaries: Not to lie about who they are, to find love, life and commitment in a more difficult world than most, perhaps even try to find the love of God in a society that rejects them.
Again, you make stick with 'it would seem' and I will stick to the facts. Society rejects that practice for a reason and one SHOULD love both male AND female, but it becomes perverted when it becomes sexual and out of proper boundaries.
I don't disagree, boundaries are good, especially in a childs development.

A famous gay person once said (and I would attribute the quote if I could remember who) something like: "Homosexuals were sent to earth by God as a test to see who would welcome this new, strange part of his creation and who would reject them out of hand."

They like any that are needing to repent are welcomed; if they reject that, then it is they that reject God out of hand... and for a small moment of temporary pleasure. Clever sayings aren't enough to contradict God.

Mark 2:17
On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
 
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beechy

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Personality disorders are a tricky thing, and often controversial diagnoses because they involve evaluation and judgment of an individual's overall behavior patterns that manifest as an exaggeration of traits that are inherent in us all and that many of us can relate to on some level, like the exaggerated fear of abandonment found in Borderline Personalities.

According to the DSM-IV, a key (though not the only) definitional feature of a personality disorder is "an enduring pattern of inner experience and behavior that differs markedly from the expectations of the individual's culture". What happens, then, with cultural expectations change? What are we to make of a "disorder" that is defined by the expectations of those around you? Perhaps that your ability to "get well" might depend on the ability of those around you to accept your experience and behavior.

As the U.K.'s Mental Health Foundation astutely observes, "What is regarded as 'normal, of course varies from culture to culture and the diagnosis has to be made within the context of the rules, obligations and social expectations held within a particular community. For example, behaviours valued in a battleground are not seen as appropriate during peace time."

Homosexuality obviously remains a controversial topic in Western culture (and elsewhere). Depending on where you look, some would say there has been "progress" in increasingly positive attitudes toward gay people, others retain a strong stance that it is aberrant (I won't put a link there, because that evidence can be found right here in this thread :)). Opposition to homosexuality is particularly strong where that behavior is equated with "badness" or "sin," like with fundamentalist Christians. Other religious groups, like reconciling Methodists, on the other hand, are pushing for inclusion and acceptance of gay people in the church community. And, as I'm sure you all know, and whether you agree or not, there are groups of Christians out there who don't believe the Bible condemns homosexuality at all.

You won't ever find me lobbying for normalization of patterns of behavior found in paranoid personality disorder, because I agree that it is a problem to be "preoccupied with unjustified doubts about the loyalty or trustworthiness of friends or associates," "read hidden demeaning or threatening meanings into benign remarks or events," and have "recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding fidelity of spouse or sexual partner."

But hey, that's me. The rhetoric, labelling, and policy behind these diagnoses is clearly political. What can be more political than a group of disorders who has, as one of its defining features, a diagnostic criteria that includes societal norms? Whose society are we talking about here? The fundamentalist Christian society? The San Francisco Castro District society? But this is what's tricky about all mental illness (and even, to some extent, physical "problems") -- the idea of what is "normal". I don't see the problem with being attracted to my same-sex partner. And I have found myself surrounded in my daily life with people who agree. The medical community has in the past agreed with those of you who think homosexuality may be a disorder . . . as many of you probably know, the DSM used to include homosexuality, but that was deleted in the most recent edition, the DSM-IV (which, btw, still includes "the diagnosis of 'Sexual Disorder Not Otherwise Specified' for someone with '...persistent and marked distress about sexual orientation'".)

As for me, I'm a very functional, successful, educated, happy person with lots of great, supportive friends and family. And I don't see my behavior as inherently sinful or condemned in the Bible, so I don't feel I have a problem that needs diagnosing. I guess there are those who would agree and those that wouldn't. Politics, politics.
 
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ChristianCenturion

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Spherical Time said:
I'm sorry, I don't understand your reply.
It means what it says, that the same gender relationships inherently require the opposite gender to fulfill their 'wants'.
Not spontaneously, and even those inside monogamous relationships can contract HIV. It might be less common, but it threatens everyone.

Sorry, it doesn't threaten me and any giving that I do for that cause is for the children that didn't have a say in the matter of what their parents did.
Stop all immorality and AIDS disappears within two generations. It's not like I can get it from hugging or being next to someone that has AIDS. :|
 
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ChristianCenturion

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beechy said:
Personality disorders are a tricky thing, and often controversial diagnoses because they involve evaluation and judgment of an individual's overall behavior patterns that manifest as an exaggeration of traits that are inherent in us all and that many of us can relate to on some level, like the exaggerated fear of abandonment found in Borderline Personalities.

According to the DSM-IV, a key (though not the only) definitional feature of a personality disorder is "an enduring pattern of inner experience and behavior that differs markedly from the expectations of the individual's culture". What happens, then, with cultural expectations change? What are we to make of a "disorder" that is defined by the expectations of those around you? Perhaps that your ability to "get well" might depend on the ability of those around you to accept your experience and behavior.

As the U.K.'s Mental Health Foundation astutely observes, "What is regarded as 'normal, of course varies from culture to culture and the diagnosis has to be made within the context of the rules, obligations and social expectations held within a particular community. For example, behaviours valued in a battleground are not seen as appropriate during peace time."

Homosexuality obviously remains a controversial topic in Western culture (and elsewhere). Depending on where you look, some would say there has been "progress" in increasingly positive attitudes toward gay people, others retain a strong stance that it is aberrant (I won't put a link there, because that evidence can be found right here in this thread :)). Opposition to homosexuality is particularly strong where that behavior is equated with "badness" or "sin," like with fundamentalist Christians. Other religious groups, like reconciling Methodists, on the other hand, are pushing for inclusion and acceptance of gay people in the church community. And, as I'm sure you all know, and whether you agree or not, there are groups of Christians out there who don't believe the Bible condemns homosexuality at all.

You won't ever find me lobbying for normalization of patterns of behavior found in paranoid personality disorder, because I agree that it is a problem to be "preoccupied with unjustified doubts about the loyalty or trustworthiness of friends or associates," "read hidden demeaning or threatening meanings into benign remarks or events," and have "recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding fidelity of spouse or sexual partner."

But hey, that's me. The rhetoric, labelling, and policy behind these diagnoses is clearly political. What can be more political than a group of disorders who has, as one of its defining features, a diagnostic criteria that includes societal norms? Whose society are we talking about here? The fundamentalist Christian society? The San Francisco Castro District society? But this is what's tricky about all mental illness (and even, to some extent, physical "problems") -- the idea of what is "normal". I don't see the problem with being attracted to my same-sex partner. And I have found myself surrounded in my daily life with people who agree. The medical community has in the past agreed with those of you who think homosexuality may be a disorder . . . as many of you probably know, the DSM used to include homosexuality, but that was deleted in the most recent edition, the DSM-IV (which, btw, still includes "the diagnosis of 'Sexual Disorder Not Otherwise Specified' for someone with '...persistent and marked distress about sexual orientation'".)
Yes, I've seen this before... "it's all society's fault and if they only accept us, then everything would be fine." Another dismissing of one's responsibility of their own actions... "it's society's fault", "I can't help how I feel", etc.
I thought you didn't like slippery-slopes? :doh:
As for me, I'm a very functional, successful, educated, happy person with lots of great, supportive friends and family. And I don't see my behavior as inherently sinful or condemned in the Bible, so I don't feel I have a problem that needs diagnosing. I guess there are those who would agree and those that wouldn't. Politics, politics.

And yet, you come to a Christian forum and promote homosexuality. I see that as unresolved issues - but then again, I'm no expert.
 
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Randall McNally

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WarriorAngel said:
Because it harms others...?

You think those activities don't harm others?
The whole society has to put up with deviant sexual attitudes....
Unless they harm others, I'm afraid so.
and yes it harms the pysche of children,

Does it? Or is it that they have to hear people complain about how deviant and unnatural homosexuality is?
and those who have no desire to live with it as it 'immorally' shoves the 'IN you face' attitude to God loving people.
Your desire to walk down the street without seeing a rainbow sticker is wholly unpersuasive as a reason to install religious fascism.
NOTHING that occurs in nature is unnatural??
Nothing. By definition.
Then why do animals leave their young to die if they are imperfect...?
Without access to my animal behavior texts, I couldn't say for sure. I believe it has something to do with the evolutionary disadvantage of raising offspring that need excessive amounts of care and supervision.
Plenty of things in nature are unnatural, including salactious desires that deviate off the path of which life was meant to be.....continious by procreation.
You appear to be having some difficulty understanding what is meant by "nature."
DID I not just say some couples dont have the ability??, but they still 'fit' properly
What is a proper fit anyway? By this standard, should extremely well-endowed men be prohibited from having sex with petite women?
...and even if men CAN be deviant, there are absolutely NO natural means to lubricate said area.
You don't need to go there.

I'll stipulate that anal sex is non-procreative. But then, so is kissing, fondling and every other non-intercourse-involving activity.
The only women who scar from sex, also go off the normal path of married sex, or mature sex...
"Normal path"? So are you dropping the "unnatural" claim now?
IT should be noted all the factors that 'NATURE' shows us...male and female married couples that are 'monogamous' have the least amount of worries when it comes to these concerns.:thumbsup:
That may be true, but you can't use the state to force people to worry about things.
 
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