Homosexuality the early churches view should be ours

atpollard

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Galatians 2 is an interesting passage to quote, because our whole discussion here is about whether a particular point of Jewish law is binding on Gentile Christians.
That one is easy. No. Nothing in Deuteronomy is binding on Christians simply because it is in Deuteronomy.

However God goes not change, so an “abomination” to the Lord remains an abomination. Should Christians be performing “abominations” in the sight of God? What are the TWO GREATEST COMMANDMENTS that Jesus passed on to us in the NT?

(There are also places in the NT that discuss it if you wanted to examine those verses.)
 
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FutureAndAHope

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Galatians 2 is an interesting passage to quote, because our whole discussion here is about whether a particular point of Jewish law is binding on Gentile Christians.

The fact is that when the apostles held council the two things they said were binding were a) you may not sexual sin, and b) you may not be involved in idol worship. So we see that all sexual sin is binding on a Christian gentile, it is still sinning. The book of Romans, I assume was written to the Romans, Gentiles. It again stating homosexuality as a sin. Why would Paul give it a special mention if it was not an issue for Gentiles?

Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication (G4202*), and from things strangled, and from blood.

Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

G4202 - halotry, adultery, incest
 
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Junia

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Same sex attraction, as with all sins, comes from the Devil. He tempts people to sin. The verse in Romans states that God gives evil people over to evil desires, when they reject Him. He does not cause them to sin, for the bible says "God can not be tempted by sin, neither tempts any man", rather he allows them to be "given over to sin", essentially given to Satan's desires.

If God can not be tempted by sin, neither tempts any man, why would he force a creation to be gay? It makes no sense. There is no such thing as a gay (who can not change), it is a demonic desire.
I

Or, as in my case, same sex attraction was caused by unhealed wounds.
 
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FutureAndAHope

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I

Or, as in my case, same sex attraction was caused by unhealed wounds.

If it is not too painful, I would be interested in learning, what your experience was. So I can more fully understand this topic. If it is too hard to post here. Message me.
 
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atpollard

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Or, as in my case, same sex attraction was caused by unhealed wounds.
That has been my observation as well.
I noticed a trend in Hollywood that all of the actresses that "came out" as Lesbian seemed to eventually publish "tell-all" books about their childhood abuse/trauma. The Gay men that I know come from dysfunctional family backgrounds and are for the most part, gentle souls seeking love "in all the wrong places" (as the old country song goes).
 
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98cwitr

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Please move this if it is inappropriate for this forum.

I would like to contest for the faith.

The basic premise of the World, or the secular society, is the following premise:

Homosexuality is a biological issue, as such a homosexual has no control over their preference, they are born homosexual, as such it is wrong to class it as a sin, or something wrong.

This however is not the truth. It is an opinion of man. God’s word, or the way he describes the sin is entirely different. Any church that accepts the sin of homosexuality has deviated away from God’s word and seeks to please man.

O you who are false to God, do you not see that the friends of this world are not God's friends? Every man desiring to be a friend of this world makes himself a hater of God. - Jas 4:4

So what does God’s word say about homosexuality. I will give a brief description of it here before moving to the bible’s description of it.

The bible basically says that the sin shows it’s presence the most where a person has chosen to remove themselves from the knowledge of God. Where they have chosen to ignore his commands, and call consistently. They have chosen, witchcraft, sexual sin, hatred, unloving attitudes, over God’s call to live with restraint, and true gentleness. As such the worlds view that homosexuality is love, is far removed from the truth, it actually shows a rejection of God’s love.

It is not however a sin that is unpardonable, meaning that a person can leave that life style and receive God. But no man may live in the sin and think they have the forgiveness of God. For God lists it as an abomination.

The civil law of God given by Moses, states:

And if a man has sex relations with a man, the two of them have done a disgusting thing: let them be put to death; their blood will be on them. - Lev 20:13

This shows that God does not want people to be homosexual, any law that promotes homosexuality is against God. One of the primary reason is that God has shown through scripture that homosexuality manifests it’s self in the rejection of God, and his commands. Now the bible says that God is love. That his attributes are:

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, a quiet mind, kind acts, well-doing, faith, Gentle behaviour, control over desires: against such there is no law. Gal 5:22-23

A person who has moved into the sin of homosexuality according to the bible has in the past been exposed to God’s love and word, but have chosen to ignore it and rather give into passion, and lust. As such, being a God rejector, and a hater of what is good, should have no part in church ministry.

Because, having the knowledge of God, they did not give glory to God as God, and did not give praise, but their minds were full of foolish things, and their hearts, being without sense, were made dark. Seeming to be wise, they were in fact foolish, And by them the glory of the eternal God was changed and made into the image of man who is not eternal, and of birds and beasts and things which go on the earth. For this reason God gave them up to the evil desires of their hearts, working shame in their bodies with one another: Because by them the true word of God was changed into that which is false, and they gave worship and honour to the thing which is made, and not to him who made it, to whom be blessing for ever. So be it. For this reason God gave them up to evil passions, and their women were changing the natural use into one which is unnatural: And in the same way the men gave up the natural use of the woman and were burning in their desire for one another, men doing shame with men, and getting in their bodies the right reward of their evil-doing. And because they had not the mind to keep God in their knowledge, God gave them up to an evil mind, to do those things which are not right; Being full of all wrongdoing, evil, desire for the goods of others, hate, envy, putting to death, fighting, deceit, cruel ways, evil talk, and false statements about others; Hated by God, full of pride, without respect, full of loud talk, given to evil inventions, not honouring father or mother, Without knowledge, not true to their undertakings, unkind, having no mercy: Who, though they have knowledge of the law of God, that the fate of those who do these things is death, not only go on doing these things themselves, but give approval to those who do them. - Rom 1:21-32

Fully agree, but we must not stop at Romans 1:32; we must take 2:1-3 into direct context as well.
 
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DamianWarS

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Homosexuality is a biological issue, as such a homosexual has no control over their preference, they are born homosexual, as such it is wrong to class it as a sin, or something wrong.

This however is not the truth. It is an opinion of man. God’s word, or the way he describes the sin is entirely different. Any church that accepts the sin of homosexuality has deviated away from God’s word and seeks to please man.
I have a 5-year-old son and a 3-year-old daughter and I can assure you they have no capacity to be sexually motivated. This works both ways, of course, they are neither homosexual nor heterosexual they are male and female. The typical Christian answer is then people choose their sexuality rather than are born with it. This is equally as flawed and hurtful. I am a heterosexual male and I can assure you I do not wake up and choose to be a heterosexual, I just am heterosexual and it's not a switch I can turn off.

an infinite amount of things can influence how we view the world and you can pervert anything. our world operates with a missing identity and look to groups where they desperately desire to fit in and connect with. the LGBT communities happen to be very good at accepting people, the church is not so good at it. so we are neither born with it nor is it a choice that can so easily be unpacked. we can make steps however to choose Christ. He tells us to deny our self to follow him. so if our identity is being homosexual or heterosexual Christ tells us to deny these things and follow him. If our identity is being a boss, or a father, or a talented performer, Christ tells us to deny these things and follow him. Christ then gives us a new identity and what that looks like only Christ knows.
 
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Junia

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If it is not too painful, I would be interested in learning, what your experience was. So I can more fully understand this topic. If it is too hard to post here. Message me.
I

Well basically I was brought up in an evangelical Christian home with a lot of domestic violence and verbal and emotional abuse. Was bullied and also sexually abused. I had identity issues. I knew in Was a girl and was actually very feminine, always insisting on skirts, jeweelery,etc but I didn't like myself or know which really was.

I had strong feelings for girls and boys. I think I just wanted to be loved. At home I was made to feel worthless and a nuisance, at school I was bullied and lonely. These feelings went on until my late 20s and then God started to heal them.. In my 30s I felt them coming back and I prayed against them and they left. I had a strong sense they were linked to the rejection I had experienced and need to attach myself to someone who loved me. I was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder in my early 20s after years of self destructive and depressive rage filled behaviour, attachment isues, not knowing who i was, emptiness, addiction. To this day I don't know how much of this was being truly genuinely "bisexual" or just not being sure of who I was and being very messed up. But I know I am not the only one to have experienced similar and I truly believe it wasn't a lifestyle choice as never acted on my feelings but a wounded inner child acting out.
 
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parousia70

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If our identity is being ... a talented performer, Christ tells us to deny these things and follow him.

I've always been suspicious of Bass Players...
 
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coffee4u

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Not saying my case is true for everyone who is gay but I feel there could be a link.

I agree. I did early childhood education and did some reading into how children develop their identity; sexually, gender and just general identity in the community.
Boys in particular are more 'fragile' in terms of identity. If the main role models are abusive or non supportive so that the child can't identify with them there is a high chance they will grow-up with some form of dysfunction. Girls tend to be a bit hardier in terms of their identity than boys but sexual abuse causes great harm to all children.

Your home was not Christian. If this is what they called themself then they were lying, probably even lying to themselves. Being a Christian means giving your life to Jesus and following his words. The Bible is very clear on it's warning about hurting children.
Matthew 18:6
"If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.


Christian belief comes from the Bible, if it's from outside of that it isn't Christian but man made. It doesn't matter what label someone uses, it doesn't make them be it. Just because I claim to be a zebra does not make me one.
1 Corinthians 13
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
Your family is not evangelical Christian, it is abusive, toxic and dysfunctional. Which is hard to face because we all want our families to love us but sometimes you have to make your 'family' from people outside of your family.
 
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CatsRule2020

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A rough childhood does not increase the chance of a child becoming LGBT. The child is is either born heterosexual or not. However, if they are not born heterosexual, more than likely they were in for a very rough social youth experience.
 
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Jonathan1303

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A rough childhood does not increase the chance of a child becoming LGBT. The child is is either born heterosexual or not. However, if they are not born heterosexual, more than likely they were in for a very rough social youth experience.
agreed.
U are either born hetero or homosexual.
I still don´t understand why everone must be so hatefull. would you forbid your child to be homosexual?
Loving is not a sin
jonathan
 
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pescador

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agreed.
U are either born hetero or homosexual.
I still don´t understand why everone must be so hatefull. would you forbid your child to be homosexual?
Loving is not a sin
jonathan

Incorrect. People are born pansexual: not limited in sexual choice with regard to biological sex, gender, or gender identity. "Pansexuality is sexual, romantic, or emotional attraction towards people regardless of their sex or gender identity. Pansexual people may refer to themselves as gender-blind, asserting that gender and sex are not determining factors in their romantic or sexual attraction to others." Wikipedia

Loving is not only not a sin, we are commanded in both Testaments to love our neighbor as ourselves. The word "love" appears 686 times in the Bible.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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Incorrect. People are born pansexual: not limited in sexual choice with regard to biological sex, gender, or gender identity. "Pansexuality is sexual, romantic, or emotional attraction towards people regardless of their sex or gender identity. Pansexual people may refer to themselves as gender-blind, asserting that gender and sex are not determining factors in their romantic or sexual attraction to others." Wikipedia

Loving is not only not a sin, we are commanded in both Testaments to love our neighbor as ourselves. The word "love" appears 686 times in the Bible.

Are there no limits to love? Specifically erotic love?
 
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coffee4u

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A rough childhood does not increase the chance of a child becoming LGBT. The child is is either born heterosexual or not. However, if they are not born heterosexual, more than likely they were in for a very rough social youth experience.

Children are not born heterosexual or homosexual or any other sexual.
To say they do is sexualizing children. Things a child says or does are not them showing they are 'this label' or 'that label'.
When a little boy plays with a doll he is not saying "I am gay" he is simply being a child. It is the adult response to this child which gives the child a feeling of security or insecurity in what they are doing. A toddler does not know what gender they are yet, let alone understand adult sexual attraction.
It's this type of sexualization of children that makes predictors think that what they do is okay. A child's smile is not a 'flirt'. A girl playing with a truck is not 'gay' and a boy wearing a fairy costume is not 'I think I am a girl'. The world has gone crazy.
 
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CatsRule2020

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Fathers find out later that their child is not heterosexual. Down through the decades they wasted terrific amounts of money, time, and effort, trying to make their feminine sons masculine. The mothers knew much earlier that their toddler sons were not heterosexual.
These days fathers are not trying to force the gender of their sons.
 
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lazyservantofYahweh

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You will find that Yahuwshua (true name for our actual Deliverer) does not promote ANY sexuality for pleasure, because we are to be married to Him within Wisdom! Please visit the Truth about Marriage webpage here to find out more:

The Truth about Marriage
 
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