Homosexuality: Right or Wrong? (read pg1)

Zecryphon said:

Yes but your disbelief of that statement does not prove that statement false or invalidate it. It's like if I didn't believe that eighteen-wheeler tractor trailers were dangerous would kill me if I got hit by one. Does that mean I should go stand in front of one on the freeway? My disbelief doesn't change anything in this scenario. Your disbelief is simply not enough to prove what is written in the Bible is false. You need something more.



You know you can't prove a negative statement, so there is no way for you to prove that statement. But once again, simply saying it doesn't make what you're saying automatically true.



Yep and you can't present anything to prove that what you are saying is true.

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No "proof" is needed. It's what I believe, just as the idea that God's word is what you believe. You cannot prove that the Bible is God's word. The only "proof" people ever offer consists of quotations from the Bible itself. But you can't prove that God is the source of the Bible is by quoting the Bible. Anyone can write a book and claim in the book that the book is God's word. That the Bible is God's word is simply your belief. You are entitled to hold that belief, of course, but it's not my belief.

PaladinGirl said:

Regardless of the wording of the translation, it is obvious that the Bible is referring to homsexuality in some form or another. Therefore, homosexuality is wrong and your argument is bunk.

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It's not obvious to everyone. Just because you think it's obvious does not make it so for everyone who reads it.

Jet_A_Jockey said:

my apologies, its the NIV that translates it to homosexual offenders.

heres an example:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (King James Version)

King James Version (KJV) Public Domain

9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.



1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New International Version)

New International Version (NIV)


9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.



1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New American Standard Bible)

New American Standard Bible (NASB) Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995


9Or (A)do you not know that the unrighteous will not (B)inherit the kingdom of God? (C)Do not be deceived; (D)neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will (E)inherit the kingdom of God.


1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (Darby Translation)

Darby Translation (DARBY) Public Domain

9Do ye not know that unrighteous [persons] shall not inherit [the] kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who make women of themselves, nor who abuse themselves with men,
10nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor abusive persons, nor [the] rapacious, shall inherit [the] kingdom of God.

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I'm glad you point out that not all translations of the Bible include the term "homosexuals." When you look at the various other translations, it's clear that people who marry someone of the same sex do none of the things on those lists. Not that it matters to those of us who do not regard the Bible as our scripture and who follow Jesus rather than Paul.

Floatingaxe said:

I hope your friend had accepted Jesus Christ as her Saviour.

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She was Christian, but her specific religious beliefs were never any of my business, and we never talked about them. She definitely accepted gay people as we are and never insisted that gay people try to change into heterosexuals or be celibate. She supported equality and inclusion for gay people just as we are. Her church, which is a Disciples of Christ congregation, also welcomes gay people as we are. That's where the memorial service will be tomorrow, at her church.

PaladinGirl said:

Regardless of the wording of the translation, it is obvious that the Bible is referring to homsexuality in some form or another. Therefore, homosexuality is wrong and your argument is bunk.

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I was showing you textual differences between the bible translations, my argument is not bunk lol, its true.

Jet_A_Jockey said:

I was showing you textual differences between the bible translations, my argument is not bunk lol, its true.

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You are right about this, Jet.

the fact is that the original word that has been translated into homosexual is arsenkoites. The exact definition of the word is unknown, and when the word is separated it means 'man' + "many beds".

I was only trying to point this out to you, im not on the other end of this debate.

Zecryphon said:

I know but I'm pretty certain the the Lutefisk jokes are Lutheran specific. LOL In case you don't know what Lutefisk is, here is a brief description of a substance more hellish than brimstone! I blame Lutefisk for global warming. LOL

From the Wikipedia entry on Lutefisk:

Lutefisk is made from air-dried whitefish (normally cod, but ling is also used), prepared with lye, in a sequence of particular treatments. The first treatment is to soak the stockfish in cold water for five to six days (with the water changed daily). The saturated stockfish is then soaked in an unchanged solution of cold water and lye for an additional two days. The fish will swell during this soaking, attaining an even larger size than in its original (undried) state, while its protein content decreases by more than 50 percent, producing its famous jelly-like consistency. When this treatment is finished, the fish (saturated with lye) has a pH value of 11–12, and is therefore caustic. To make the fish edible, a final treatment of yet another four to six days of soaking in cold water (also changed daily) is needed. Eventually, the lutefisk is ready to be cooked.
In Finland, the traditional reagent used is birch ash. It contains high amounts of potassium carbonate and hydrocarbonate, giving the fish more mellow treatment than sodium hydroxide (lyestone). It is important not to incubate the fish too long in the lye, because saponification of the fish fats may occur, effectively rendering the fish fats into soap. The term for such spoiled fish in Finnish is saippuakala (soap fish).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutefisk

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I know Lutefisk, as I am of Swedish descent, and I have visited Sweden and Norway. Years ago my dad and I and two of our friends went skiing in Norway, and I visited Sweden while I was there. The food was pretty bad.

I was raised Lutheran, but I left that faith tradition long ago.

walloffire said:

Buckle your safety belt

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I always do. I always strap my daughter into her booster seat in the back also. Thank you for your concern.

PaladinGirl said:

You believe the Bible don't you? Well, the Bible says that practicing homosexuals are living in sin.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, 5 practicing homosexuals, 6 6:10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, the verbally abusive, 7 and swindlers will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Timothy 1:8-10 1:8 But we know that the law is good if someone uses it legitimately, 1:9 realizing that law 11 is not intended for a righteous person, but for lawless and rebellious people, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 1:10 sexually immoral people, practicing homosexuals, 12 kidnappers, liars, perjurers – in fact, for any who live contrary to sound teaching.

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If this question is directed to me, my answer is no. I do not "believe" the Bible.

Ohioprof said:

No "proof" is needed. It's what I believe, just as the idea that God's word is what you believe. You cannot prove that the Bible is God's word. The only "proof" people ever offer consists of quotations from the Bible itself. But you can't prove that God is the source of the Bible is by quoting the Bible. Anyone can write a book and claim in the book that the book is God's word. That the Bible is God's word is simply your belief. You are entitled to hold that belief, of course, but it's not my belief.

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Of course, you are wrong. Knowing God, we know that His word is faithful, and that every promise He makes to us He honours. The word of God is alive and powerful.

God honours His very word to those who put their trust in Him. He is not ythe liar you make Him out to be, and one day you will discover that to your horror.

However, I pray you find Jesus Christ the living son of God before it's too late.

Floatingaxe said:

Of course, you are wrong. Knowing God, we know that His word is faithful, and that every promise He makes to us He honours. The word of God is alive and powerful.

God honours His very word to those who put their trust in Him. He is not ythe liar you make Him out to be, and one day you will discover that to your horror.

However, I pray you find Jesus Christ the living son of God before it's too late.

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Again, we just have to agree to disagree.

Ohioprof said:

Again, we just have to agree to disagree.

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You can disagree, but I cannot agree with anything you believe. It is against God and His word and His Truth.

Floatingaxe said:

Of course, you are wrong. Knowing God, we know that His word is faithful, and that every promise He makes to us He honours. The word of God is alive and powerful.

God honours His very word to those who put their trust in Him. He is not ythe liar you make Him out to be, and one day you will discover that to your horror.

However, I pray you find Jesus Christ the living son of God before it's too late.

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She didn't claim that God is a liar ...

beechy said:

She didn't claim that God is a liar ...

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You don't have to claim overtly that God is a liar, but you can assert it by what you say you believe or don't believe.

God and His people aren't stupid. We can see.

Floatingaxe said:

You don't have to claim overtly that God is a liar, but you can assert it by what you say you believe or don't believe.

God and His people aren't stupid. We can see.

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I am one of God's people no less than you are. And I have never called God a liar. I think you and some others in these forums are mistaken.

Floatingaxe said:

You don't have to claim overtly that God is a liar, but you can assert it by what you say you believe or don't believe.

God and His people aren't stupid. We can see.

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I don't see where she either directly or impliedly made any such assertion. And nobody called anybody stupid.

Ohioprof said:

I am one of God's people no less than you are. And I have never called God a liar. I think you and some others in these forums are mistaken.

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Everything you have ever said about God and His word is an insult to Him, and in essence, makes Him out to be a liar.

God considers His children those who have come to His Son for forgiveness of their sins and follow after Him, and obey the scriptures as His word.

You deny the living Christ, and the Holy Scriptures. That makes everything God says a lie to you.

1 John 5:10
All who believe in the Son of God know in their hearts that this testimony is true. Those who don’t believe this are actually calling God a liar because they don’t believe what God has testified about his Son.

1Co 6:9

(ALT) You* know that unrighteous [ones] will not inherit [the] kingdom of God, do you* not? Stop being led astray [fig., being deceived]; neither sexual sinners nor idolaters nor adulterers nor passive partners in male-male sex nor active partners in male-male sex

(ASV) Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,

(BBE) Have you not knowledge that evil-doers will have no part in the kingdom of God? Have no false ideas about this: no one who goes after the desires of the flesh, or gives worship to images, or is untrue when married, or is less than a man, or makes a wrong use of men,

(CEV) Don't you know that evil people won't have a share in the blessings of God's kingdom? Don't fool yourselves! No one who is immoral or worships idols or is unfaithful in marriage or is a pervert or behaves like a homosexual

(Darby) Do ye not know that unrighteous persons shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who make women of themselves, nor who abuse themselves with men,

(DRB) Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: Neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers:

(EMTV) Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

(ESV) Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,

(GNB) Surely you know that the wicked will not possess God's Kingdom. Do not fool yourselves; people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or homosexual perverts

(GNT) ἢ οὐκ οἴδατε ὅτι ἄδικοι βασιλείαν Θεοῦ οὐ κληρονομήσουσι; μὴ πλανᾶσθε· οὔτε πόρνοι οὔτε εἰδωλολάτραι οὔτε μοιχοὶ οὔτε μαλακοὶ οὔτε ἀρσενοκοῖται

(GW) Don't you know that wicked people won't inherit the kingdom of God? Stop deceiving yourselves! People who continue to commit sexual sins, who worship false gods, those who commit adultery, homosexuals,

(ISV) You know that wicked people will not inherit the kingdom of God, don't you? Stop deceiving yourselves! Sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals,

(JPS)

(KJV) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

(KJV+) (2228) Know1492 ye not3756 that3754 the unrighteous94 shall not3756 inherit2816 the kingdom932 of God?2316 Be not3361 deceived:4105 neither3777 fornicators,4205 nor3777 idolaters,1496 nor3777 adulterers,3432 nor3777 effeminate,3120 nor3777 abusers of themselves with mankind,733

(KJV-1611) Know yee not that the vnrighteous shall not inherite the kingdome of God? Be not deceiued: neither fornicatours, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselues with mankinde,

(KJVR) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

(LITV) Or do you not know that unjust ones will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be led astray, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals,

(MKJV) Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals,

(Murdock) Or do ye not know, that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not mistake; neither whoremongers, nor idol-worshippers, nor adulterers, nor debauchers, nor liers with males,

(RV) Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,

(Webster) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

(WNT) Do you not know that unrighteous men will not inherit God's Kingdom? Cherish no delusion here. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor any who are guilty of unnatural crime,

(YLT) have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites,

pick one (courtesy e-sword.net free software)

unrighteous
G94
ἄδικος
adikos
ad'-ee-kos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1349; unjust; by extension wicked; by implication treacherous; specifically heathen: - unjust, unrighteous.
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fornicators
G4205
πόρνος
pornos
por'-nos
From πέρνημι pernēmi (to sell; akin to the base of G4097); a (male) prostitute (as venal), that is, (by analogy) a debauchee (libertine): - fornicator, whoremonger.
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idolaters:
G1496
εἰδωλολάτρης
eidōlolatrēs
i-do-lol-at'-race
From G1497 and the base of G3000; an image (servant or) worshipper (literally or figuratively): - idolater.
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adulterers:
G3432
μοιχός
moichos
moy-khos'
Perhaps a primary word; a (male) paramour; figuratively apostate: - adulterer.
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effeminate:
G3120
μαλακός
malakos
mal-ak-os'
Of uncertain affinity; soft, that is, fine (clothing); figuratively a catamite: - effeminate, soft.
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abusers of themselves with mankind:
G733
ἀρσενοκοίτης
arsenokoitēs
ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace
From G730 and G2845; a sodomite: - abuser of (that defile) self with mankind.
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