Homosexuality is wrong....so you fail

[lawtonfogle]

How many pedos and sadists do you know?

Personally, none who are open. A friend from few years ago (he went to a different college and we drifted away) was about as close to being sure as I have ever come, but he would not openly admit it. Of course, I actually probably know a couple, all who are able to hide it. I have heard statistics anywhere from 2 to 4% of all men fall under the category of sexual attraction to children (not necessarily pedophilia though).

You're arguing hypotheticals and going through mental hurdles.

And that is different than 99% of the rest of the things on this forum?

There are millions of out GLBT people in America. Something like 40% of the population supports them and that number is steadily growing. They are legally allowed to act on their homosexual urges, and in some areas are allowed to get married.

And there are likely millions of pedophiles out there as well (of course fully reliable statistics are hard to come by because people don't tend to be open about these things.

As to people supporting GLBT rights? What of it? I support their right to marriage and choice of sexuality (as long as it does not infringe upon another, such as in rape).

Pedophiles and sadists are not allowed to act on those urges.

To some extent they are, but never to act them out in full. So why does this invalidate my point?

Society evolves, and changes. If at one point in time pedophilia is accepted and is legal, then we can have this conversation.

Pedophiles is legal, just not accepted. Child molestation is illegal. See, there you go again, mixing up the action and the attraction.

Also, in some parts of the world, especially in the past, child/adult relations were allowed, and to some extent, they are still allowed. (The lowest age of consent in America is 14, which is not in the range of pedophilia, but still in the range of child molestation).

It just sort of gets on my nerves, that whole "What about my right to discriminate? You're discriminating against me by not allowing me to discriminate". It's a mental loophole and you could go around and around and around until you get to "You're discriminating against people who discriminate against me for discriminating against them against discriminating against this certain discriminatory group".

Double fail. I actually support GLBT rights. Now you are assuming because I am annoyed by a flaw in their logic that I must be a homophobe?

Think however you want, just don't shove it down other's throats. That goes for anyone who is, say, necking in the pews of your church to shove their sexuality on you. That's highly innapropriate, but that hasn't really happened, has it? It's more often historically and currently churches saying "Nope, you can't get married because it disagrees with our religious convictions", not "Sorry, guys, you can't practice your religion because it disagrees with our love lives".

Still acting as if I am a homophobe becuase I am not a pro-homosexual sheeple.

Therefore, they are the ones most often discriminating against others in the legal sector, not the other way around.

And at this point, you are worlds away from what I was talking about.

 

[lawtonfogle]

No, I'm not. I clearly differentiated between "aggressive" sadism and "passive" sadism. It's never the feeling itself that is wrong, and always the action. In the case of sadism and pedophilia because of the victim. There is no victim in homosexuality. Consent. That's what's important.

There is no victim in pedophilia either. Pedophilia is the attraction. Acting upon it is called child molestation.

What you are doing is equivalent of me pointing to a case of homosexual rape and saying there are victims of homosexuality.

 

[Thistlethorn]

There is no victim in pedophilia either. Pedophilia is the attraction. Acting upon it is called child molestation.

What you are doing is equivalent of me pointing to a case of homosexual rape and saying there are victims of homosexuality.

Well, it's very hard to be a pedophile and not victimize anyone, leading to child molestation, either directly or by proxy. After all, watching images of others molesting children and deriving your sexual pleasure from that is still child molestation (by proxy) and still has a victim. Homosexuality, the sexual orientation, is as victim-less as heterosexuality.

I get the feeling we are discussing past each other. My views are as follows:

Homosexuality and heterosexuality are both sexual orientations. Pedophilia and aggressive sexual sadism are also sexual orientations, but based on very different emotions. The former two are inherently victim-less. The latter two aren't, and are thus, in my view, immoral (not to say, illegal). In my view (again) a thought cannot be immoral. It is always the action that is or isn't. Thus, consent is everything.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Well, it's very hard to be a pedophile and not victimize anyone, leading to child molestation, either directly or by proxy. After all, watching images of others molesting children and deriving your sexual pleasure from that is still child molestation (by proxy) and still has a victim. Homosexuality, the sexual orientation, is as victim-less as heterosexuality.

I don't think you can really say it is that hard without more evidence. What percentage of pedophiles are able to control their urges? What percentage of extreme sexual sadist are able to not act out their urges? What percentage of exhibitionist are able to avoid streaking? I don't think we know how many. But I do think that between the use of imagination and the fact that many people who have abnormal sexual attractions are also have more normal sexual attraction, and thus have a safe/legal outlet for their sexuality, I don't think we can say it is all that hard.

I get the feeling we are discussing past each other. My views are as follows:

Homosexuality and heterosexuality are both sexual orientations. Pedophilia and aggressive sexual sadism are also sexual orientations, but based on very different emotions. The former two are inherently victim-less. The latter two aren't, and are thus, in my view, immoral (not to say, illegal). In my view (again) a thought cannot be immoral. It is always the action that is or isn't. Thus, consent is everything.

They are based on different emotions? What do you mean by that?

I think the point you are failing to see is that all sexuality involves elements of lust and elements of love. When ever we let one control us, things can go bad. For some, it may just be simple promiscuity. For others, they may end up raping someone else. On the other hand, when we temper it with love, we are able to go about our sexuality normally, and for some people, they are able to not act on it. Have you ever seen the slogan that says "If pedophiles really love children, then they would leave them the (edit) alone." Maybe that is what happens most of the time?

 

[BlackSabb]

Religious homophobia, like any other type of homophobia, is simply because the homophobes in question are arrogant, narrow minded bigots.

It's simple enough to understand.

Well, I have 2 things to say to you:


1. Truth is narrow. Error is broad.

2. The 4 band members in my signature are a lot better looking than the 4 band members in your signature.

 

[emulp]

Hello! Im not trying to rock the boat but I would disagree with the opening thread! I feel it is perfectly possible to be gay and Christian. I am a post graduate theologian form Oxford (so know a lot about the Bible), a Eucharistic minister (so know a lot about the Church), a Medical Student (so know a lot about homosexuality- in that it is a perfectly normal condition) and I am gay myself. I love God. He means everything to me and I could not imagine my life without Him. He has supported me through every aspect of my life and I joined an enclosed convent when I was 20 but left afer 6 months but with every intention of going back. In the convent I spent most of my time before the most blessed sacrement in prayer and I felt very close to My Lord. The God I am in love with is loving and mercyfull. He is also beyond any possibility of comprehension. If a human claims to know the mind of God they are claiming to know God in a very personal way. How can any man know what that which is greater than we can conceive (Anselm) can know. If one claimed that God hated homosexuals they would be claiming to know the mind of God. That is theologically impossible. As I said I am gay. I have never stopped struggling with this. I am not attracted to men. But I do feel attracted to women. For me this feels completely natural. To explain it to you straights out there, imagine you were told that you should be attracted to the same sex. How woluld you feel? I hazard a guess that you would say 'No!' because it is not you. You can not explain why you are heterosexual, you just are. It is the same for homosexuals. If you have any questions about my stance please message me! I really am not trying to upset people but I am gay and this feels natural to me, but I also believe in a loving, mercyfull God who we, as human, can never comprehend.

 

[Chazemataz]

Hello! Im not trying to rock the boat but I would disagree with the opening thread! I feel it is perfectly possible to be gay and Christian. I am a post graduate theologian form Oxford (so know a lot about the Bible), a Eucharistic minister (so know a lot about the Church), a Medical Student (so know a lot about homosexuality- in that it is a perfectly normal condition) and I am gay myself. I love God. He means everything to me and I could not imagine my life without Him. He has supported me through every aspect of my life and I joined an enclosed convent when I was 20 but left afer 6 months but with every intention of going back. In the convent I spent most of my time before the most blessed sacrement in prayer and I felt very close to My Lord. The God I am in love with is loving and mercyfull. He is also beyond any possibility of comprehension. If a human claims to know the mind of God they are claiming to know God in a very personal way. How can any man know what that which is greater than we can conceive (Anselm) can know. If one claimed that God hated homosexuals they would be claiming to know the mind of God. That is theologically impossible. As I said I am gay. I have never stopped struggling with this. I am not attracted to men. But I do feel attracted to women. For me this feels completely natural. To explain it to you straights out there, imagine you were told that you should be attracted to the same sex. How woluld you feel? I hazard a guess that you would say 'No!' because it is not you. You can not explain why you are heterosexual, you just are. It is the same for homosexuals. If you have any questions about my stance please message me! I really am not trying to upset people but I am gay and this feels natural to me, but I also believe in a loving, mercyfull God who we, as human, can never comprehend.

Did you experience any discrimination while at Oxford? Maybe not, since most people who are educated aren't homophobic, or racist, sexist, or anti-[insert religion here], but I'm still very curious.

and welcome to the forums! With the exception of a few bad people, you'll find that the majority are tolerant and open-minded.

 

[ArgentBear]

Hello! Im not trying to rock the boat but I would disagree with the opening thread! I feel it is perfectly possible to be gay and Christian. I am a post graduate theologian form Oxford (so know a lot about the Bible), a Eucharistic minister (so know a lot about the Church), a Medical Student (so know a lot about homosexuality- in that it is a perfectly normal condition) and I am gay myself. I love God. He means everything to me and I could not imagine my life without Him. He has supported me through every aspect of my life and I joined an enclosed convent when I was 20 but left afer 6 months but with every intention of going back. In the convent I spent most of my time before the most blessed sacrement in prayer and I felt very close to My Lord. The God I am in love with is loving and mercyfull. He is also beyond any possibility of comprehension. If a human claims to know the mind of God they are claiming to know God in a very personal way. How can any man know what that which is greater than we can conceive (Anselm) can know. If one claimed that God hated homosexuals they would be claiming to know the mind of God. That is theologically impossible. As I said I am gay. I have never stopped struggling with this. I am not attracted to men. But I do feel attracted to women. For me this feels completely natural. To explain it to you straights out there, imagine you were told that you should be attracted to the same sex. How woluld you feel? I hazard a guess that you would say 'No!' because it is not you. You can not explain why you are heterosexual, you just are. It is the same for homosexuals. If you have any questions about my stance please message me! I really am not trying to upset people but I am gay and this feels natural to me, but I also believe in a loving, mercyfull God who we, as human, can never comprehend.

Waves hello

 

[Beanieboy]

I acknowledge that I have fallen short from the glory of God.
Are you saying that Christ failed?

 

[marksman007]

but you can't even bother to find out that I"m a good person,

Mark 10:18."Why do you call me good?" Jesus asked him. "No one is good except God alone.

Not all homosexuals are promiscuous or drug abusers.

Research indicates that the average male homosexual has hundreds of sex partners in his lifetime:

·The Dutch study of partnered homosexuals, which was published in the journal AIDS, found that men with a steady partner had an average of eight sexual partners per year.​

·Bell and Weinberg, in their classic study of male and female homosexuality, found that 43 percent of white male homosexuals had sex with 500 or more partners, with 28 percent having one thousand or more sex partners.[13]​

·In their study of the sexual profiles of 2,583 older homosexuals published in the Journal of Sex Research, Paul Van de Ven et al. found that "the modal range for number of sexual partners ever [of homosexuals] was 101-500." In addition, 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent had between 501 and 1,000 partners. A further 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent reported having had more than one thousand lifetime sexual partners.[14]​

·A survey conducted by the homosexual magazine Genre found that 24 percent of the respondents said they had had more than one hundred sexual partners in their lifetime. The magazine noted that several respondents suggested including a category of those who had more than one thousand sexual partners.[15]​

Last time I read your Holy Book, your God had to say a lot about pride and judgement, as well.

James 2:10. Whoever breaks one commandment is guilty of breaking them all.

But I'll just point out that adultery is one of what are usually called the 10 commandments, homosexual sex is not.

Neither is incest so does that make it OK?

Just ask for forgiveness and keep sinning.

Romans 6:1&2. What shall we say, then? Should we continue to live in sin so that God's grace will increase? Certainly not! We have died to sin---how then can we go on living in it?

I think its becuse they are bigots.

Bigots: Men who have a moustache according to the dictionary

You know that he doesn't tolerate this abomination. Yet it is used as a legalistic document to attack and condemn gays and lesbians all the time.

In fact, all sinners condemn themselves because they are sinners.

Religious homophobia, like any other type of homophobia, is simply because the homophobes in question are arrogant, narrow minded bigots

Most so called homophobia is not homophobia which means an irrational fear of homosexuals and homosexuality. Most homosexuals use the word to describe people who disagree with them.

Think however you want, just don't shove it down other's throats.

I do not think that putting a post on this forum constitutes shoving things down people’s throats especially as no one is asking you to read what is written.

Basically what many if not most Christians do in regards to homosexuals.

I would like to see some concrete evidence for this claim.

There is no victim in homosexuality.

If a homosexual is murdered by a homosexual there is a victim. If a homosexual is beaten up by another homosexual there is a victim. If a homosexual contracts AIDS from another one there is a victim. If a homosexuals contracts any STD from another homosexual there is a victim. If a homosexual is promiscuous there is a victim because he is responding to his sense of rejection.

in that it is a perfectly normal condition

When you have spent two years counselling homosexuals you soon discover there is nothing normal about it.

As I said I am gay. I have never stopped struggling with this. I am not attracted to men. But I do feel attracted to women.

A classic oxy moron don’t you think?

 

[Maren]

Mark 10:18."Why do you call me good?" Jesus asked him. "No one is good except God alone.

Research indicates that the average male homosexual has hundreds of sex partners in his lifetime:

It does if you make false claims about what the research actually shows; it's amazing what happens when you misrepresent and cherry pick studies.

·The Dutch study of partnered homosexuals, which was published in the journal AIDS, found that men with a steady partner had an average of eight sexual partners per year.

Wait a minute, no citation? Or is it supposed to be one of the ones below? Or is it that this is fabricated claims of of a study that shows no such thing and that's why they don't/can't put a citation.

·Bell and Weinberg, in their classic study of male and female homosexuality, found that 43 percent of white male homosexuals had sex with 500 or more partners, with 28 percent having one thousand or more sex partners.[13][/CENTER]

Except this study has nothing to do with the Dutch study. Rather this is a study from 1978, before AIDS and while singles bars were common in the US. The biggest problem with this data is they did not compare the results to heterosexual males -- as such we have no basis of comparison.

Further, it has been proven that people, even in blind studies, will frequently lie about their sexual experiences (with men often exaggerating the number of people they had sex with). This is one of the reasons you need the study to show then number of partners of heterosexuals.

There are several more recent studies that studied both heterosexuals and homosexuals and show that heterosexual and homosexual males have roughly the same number of partners, in some studies they actually show heterosexuals having more sexual partners.

Though it is funny that one of the reasons people use to deny homosexuals legal relationship protections is the fact that homosexuals (in large part due to the relationship protections) have a harder time making a relationship work -- just as unmarried heterosexuals break up over 95% of the time.

·In their study of the sexual profiles of 2,583 older homosexuals published in the Journal of Sex Research, Paul Van de Ven et al. found that "the modal range for number of sexual partners ever [of homosexuals] was 101-500." In addition, 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent had between 501 and 1,000 partners. A further 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent reported having had more than one thousand lifetime sexual partners.[14]

Umm... I went through this cite a couple of times and could not find anything on total numbers of sexual partners. And again, even if I just somehow missed this information (though I searched through it twice), it is meaningless without equivalent data on heterosexuals. And this was an Australian study, not a Dutch one.

·A survey conducted by the homosexual magazine Genre found that 24 percent of the respondents said they had had more than one hundred sexual partners in their lifetime. The magazine noted that several respondents suggested including a category of those who had more than one thousand sexual partners.[15]

​

Umm, yeah... and the readers of Playboy claim all sorts of sexual partners, too. Studies where readers of a magazine report in on a subject are notoriously unreliable -- not to mention that a sexual oriented magazine will "find" that people (regardless of orientation) have lots of sex.

So, no, no citation for the Dutch study. Problem is, it doesn't at all claim what you say it does. Here is the article so you can check it out. What we find if we honestly look at it is that only homosexuals that were having sex with multiple partners was accepted into the study. So trying to claim this is a study that shows homosexual relationships tend not to be monogamous is about like claiming a study examining adultery in marriage (and only adulterers were questioned) found that adultery occurred in all married relationships.

The mere fact that they article you are referencing has misrepresented the facts (whether intentionally or unintentionally) and, as such, is just not reliable. You need to go to the studies and actually verify them yourself and see what they say. In this case, the studies do not directly support your claims, especially when they are outdated (more than 30 years old) or their methods/results are misrepresented.

James 2:10. Whoever breaks one commandment is guilty of breaking them all.
Neither is incest so does that make it OK?
Romans 6:1&2. What shall we say, then? Should we continue to live in sin so that God's grace will increase? Certainly not! We have died to sin---how then can we go on living in it?
Bigots: Men who have a moustache according to the dictionary
In fact, all sinners condemn themselves because they are sinners.
Most so called homophobia is not homophobia which means an irrational fear of homosexuals and homosexuality. Most homosexuals use the word to describe people who disagree with them.
I do not think that putting a post on this forum constitutes shoving things down people’s throats especially as no one is asking you to read what is written.
I would like to see some concrete evidence for this claim.
If a homosexual is murdered by a homosexual there is a victim. If a homosexual is beaten up by another homosexual there is a victim. If a homosexual contracts AIDS from another one there is a victim. If a homosexuals contracts any STD from another homosexual there is a victim. If a homosexual is promiscuous there is a victim because he is responding to his sense of rejection.
When you have spent two years counselling homosexuals you soon discover there is nothing normal about it.
A classic oxy moron don’t you think?

And why should we trust you for anything when on at least two of the studies you attempt to reference the studies don't state what you claim they do?

 

[nhisname]

THere's so much I want to say to this, but I think I'd probably be banned for it. You claim to be a Christian, but you can't even bother to find out that I"m a good person, you just automatically assume I'm not, and the only reason is because I have a boyfriend. <staff edit> it was because of people like you that I stopped going to church...like I said, I can't say what I'm thinking on a Christian forum, but people like you make me really angry

To be a christian means to repent(turn away from sin) and follow Christ. Being his disciple means to deny oneself, pick up ones cross(dying to one's flesh) and following him spiritually. For a Christian to know if one has repented is to check out his fruit. If his fruit(actions) is opposing God's word then he cannot be a Christian. Why would this bother you? You are being worldly. We are not like the world.

 

[nhisname]

*deep breath*

Not all homosexuals are promiscuous or drug abusers. If a man is in a monogamous relationship, and he's a faithful Christian, I don't think there'd be any consequences more harmful than less rewards in the afterlife. Just my opinion

I don't think I'd count on your rationalization of consequences or rewards if I were you. There will be only 2 kinds of people who will stand before God on judgement day, those who believe and those who don't, the ones who don't will be judged by God's standards not ours. His are all stated in his word for us to heed.

 

[nhisname]

Is this thread a joke? Am I missing the punchline?

For all the homosexual Christians out there having to put up with discrimination like this from your narrow minded brothers; my prayers are with you.

Us narrow minded Christians have been around awhile and so being we have the maturity and wisdom in Christ that you young ones lack. Watch, listen and learn, I was a youth in the late sixties and seventies and nothing is new as far as worldiness. As Christians scripture tells us to not have anything to do with it.

 

[Steezie]

Us narrow minded Christians have been around awhile and so being we have the maturity and wisdom in Christ that you young ones lack.

Must....not....say...whats in...my head....will get....thrown off forum....

This reminds me of what people were saying during the elections about McCain and experience "Oh he's got 30 years of experience!"

Ehhh, no. He's got one year of experience 30 times.

 

[cwolf20]

How not to start a peaceful discussion in the eyes of God that might actually cause people to think "hmm that's a good point". Come out swinging with barbs and venom, and a little bit of proverbial eye-gouging. Luckily the staff edit took it out, but it's still implied.

as if the title alone doesn't ram itself up people's nostrils.

 

[Zaac]

THere's so much I want to say to this, but I think I'd probably be banned for it. You claim to be a Christian, but you can't even bother to find out that I"m a good person, you just automatically assume I'm not, and the only reason is because I have a boyfriend. <staff edit> it was because of people like you that I stopped going to church...like I said, I can't say what I'm thinking on a Christian forum, but people like you make me really angry

Why are people always blaming others for why they stopped going to church? You stopped going to church because of YOU.

Folks don't like that there is a God Who says what is absolutely right and wrong. And they also don't like that He has called Christians to correct people with His truth in love.

You're a good person by YOUR standard. By God's standard, none of us are worthy of being called good because we are all sinners. It only takes one sin to make us not good. That's why only God is good.

 

[PhilosophicalBluster]

Why are people always blaming others for why they stopped going to church? You stopped going to church because of YOU.

Folks don't like that there is a God Who says what is absolutely right and wrong. And they also don't like that He has called Christians to correct people with His truth in love.

You're a good person by YOUR standard. By God's standard, none of us are worthy of being called good because we are all sinners. It only takes one sin to make us not good. That's why only God is good.

This brings us to the question of: Does might make right?

In other words, just because G-d is more powerful than us, does that give him the right to dictate our behavior under consequence of damnation?

 

[ArgentBear]

Research indicates that the average male homosexual has hundreds of sex partners in his lifetime:

First off one should not rely on an organization like the Family Research Council for information about …anything. The FRC has a long history of making up facts and misrepresenting the legitimate research of others.

·The Dutch study of partnered homosexuals, which was published in the journal AIDS, found that men with a steady partner had an average of eight sexual partners per year. ​

​

Wow…a Dutch study. One apparently without a name or an author. wow that is impressive.

When studies are referred to without actually referencing one can only assume that the claims being made about the studies are not entirely truthful. And in this case that is exactly the situation. The study in question is The contribution of steady and casual partnerships in the incidence of HIV infection among homosexual men in Amsterdam by M. Xiradou. So why not call the study by name instead of the euphemism “the Dutch study”? the and is most likely to keep people from actually reading the study itself and finding that the claims made by many of the Christian right about it are false claims.

Dr. Xiridou based her research on the Amsterdam Cohort Studies of HIV infections among gay men in 1984. Ninety percent of the gay men in the Cohort study were in monogamous relationships and as such were excluded from the Xiradou study. Xiradou further reduced the number of individuals in the study by excluding men over the age of 30. In other words some people are trying to make claims about the lack of monogamy among gay men by misusing a study the excludes monogamous gay men form it

·Bell and Weinberg, in their classic study of male and female homosexuality, found that 43 percent of white male homosexuals had sex with 500 or more partners, with 28 percent having one thousand or more sex partners.[13]​

The Bell and Weinberg study is almost as commonly misused as the “Dutch Study” anyone who actually looks at Bell and Weinberg will see the misrepresentation. Bell and Weinberg also said in the study that the data was not generalizable for many reasons including the fact that the survey population was not reprehensive, the survey included homosexual and bisexual men and did not differentiate sexual contact they were having with males of females and it lacked any heterosexual comparison data (and isn’t it surprising that the Christian right doesn’t quote) for all anyone knows heterosexuals are far more promiscuous.

·In their study of the sexual profiles of 2,583 older homosexuals published in the Journal of Sex Research, Paul Van de Ven et al. found that "the modal range for number of sexual partners ever [of homosexuals] was 101-500." In addition, 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent had between 501 and 1,000 partners. A further 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent reported having had more than one thousand lifetime sexual partners.[14]​

The actual numbers reported in the Van de Ven study were quite different: the older men had either 1 (28.5%)or between 2-5 (44.9%) partners and (23.9%) had had between 5 and 10 partners ever.” This accounts for 97.3% of the respondents… leaving no room for the outrageous claims made here.

·A survey conducted by the homosexual magazine Genre found that 24 percent of the respondents said they had had more than one hundred sexual partners in their lifetime. The magazine noted that several respondents suggested including a category of those who had more than one thousand sexual partners.[15]​

Wow…a survey in an obscure porn magazine. Should we use the Penthouse magazine forum to figure out how many heterosexual males are monogamous?

Neither is incest so does that make it OK?

Didn’t Abraham marry his sister?

Most so called homophobia is not homophobia which means an irrational fear of homosexuals and homosexuality. Most homosexuals use the word to describe people who disagree with them.

Incorrect. While it may mean an irrational fear of homosexuals it also means disdain, discrimination and/or prejudice towards homosexuals

 

[marksman007]

Folks don't like that there is a God Who says what is absolutely right and wrong. And they also don't like that He has called Christians to correct people with His truth in love.

A very good point Zaac. It illustrates well that the root issue is rebellion against God and his society or in other words, I don't want anyone telling me what I can and cannot do epitomosed in the claim that God is dead.

The evolutionists are not fighting for the fairy story of evolution but the right to exclude God from their lives legitimately.

The homosexual is not interested in "civil rights" but how they can bury the church and their approach to homosexuality. Once they have done that, they can legitimise all manner of perversion which is nothing more than rebellion.

In one homosexuals magazine it was stated that they were not interested in homosexual marriage (I don't say 'gay' marriage because most homosexuals are not gay), they were wanting to destroy marriage as we know it so that they can overthrow estabished society and make everything abnormal normal.

Of course once you remove absolutes you can do anything you want. I notice in the USA there is an organisation fighting to make sex between men and boys legal.

The mantra of those who want to get rid of God's absolutes is that there are no absolutes. Of course, saying that there are no absolutes is as absolute as you can get.

When God created the heavens and earth and mankind, he did so with a certain genome or DNA. The absolutes he gave were intented to allow us to enjoy his creation in its fulness as they work in harmony together.

Once sin came in, degredation in all facets of life began and we have the situation now where we no longer know what is normal and healthy. In our headlong pursuit to push all the boundaries, we will end up a human wreck as we become slaves of our own debauchery which incidentally we were not made for.