homosexuality is an abomination

[Arikay]

Well, yes someone can possibly be born a murderer, however I believe it would be considered a disease.

You cant use that as an example though as they are different things. To think them the same is to not understand.

I am curious though, can you show me a passage where it is clearly stated in His word?

Homosexuality is a sin against God. It is clearly stated in His Word. Unrepented sin is worthy of utter damnation. We are to love the sinner, but hate the sin. Just as I am commanded to hate the sin of lying, stealing, and murder, doesn't give me any right to hate the liar, theif, or murderer. To the one's who believe one is born homosexual, may I humbly ask, is one born to be a murderer or do surrounding circumstances turn them into one. Our world is corrupted by sin, and the only way to be redeemed of this corrupt world is to first seek forgiveness of our own participation corruption (daily) and seek to be like Him, isn't that what a Christian is all about, being a Christ-One, or being one like Christ? No way can we be perfect, but we are called to be a holy and called out people.

 

[feral]

...i would hope that people have excitement in their lives, and don't need to concentrate on the sex lives/romance/happiness of others in order to get their kicks. who cares who sleeps with whom? what does it matter? how does that affect you in any way? do you feel that the mere fact of people living their lives insults yours? can you not be straight when others are gay? really...what is the point of this ceaseless debate..? in twenty years time, it will sound as silly as fights over interacial marriage or votes for women. concern yourself with your own sex life...

 

[Firscherscherling]

For those of you who wonder about these threads about homosexuality that go on and on and on with no resolution, I can tell you this. The reason I participate isn't to try and convince anyone to change their religious beliefs. Though the topic tends to revolve around the 'facts' of homosexuality that isn't the root of the discussion for me (and I assume for many others). I participate because it brings out the hate. It demonstrates the hate for all to see. It is the irony that it is the non-christians who speak of love and acceptance, and not the other way around, that make me participate. And it is the hope that some of those who hate will read the words and plainly see it. Do you read this quote and see the hate? I sure hope so, because I do. I wonder what Jesus would say if he read it?

Homosexuality is a sin against God. It is clearly stated in His Word. Unrepented sin is worthy of utter damnation. We are to love the sinner, but hate the sin. Just as I am commanded to hate the sin of lying, stealing, and murder, doesn't give me any right to hate the liar, theif, or murderer. To the one's who believe one is born homosexual, may I humbly ask, is one born to be a murderer or do surrounding circumstances turn them into one. Our world is corrupted by sin, and the only way to be redeemed of this corrupt world is to first seek forgiveness of our own participation corruption (daily) and seek to be like Him, isn't that what a Christian is all about, being a Christ-One, or being one like Christ? No way can we be perfect, but we are called to be a holy and called out people.

 

[wblastyn]

For those of you who wonder about these threads about homosexuality that go on and on and on with no resolution, I can tell you this. The reason I participate isn't to try and convince anyone to change their religious beliefs. Though the topic tends to revolve around the 'facts' of homosexuality that isn't the root of the discussion for me (and I assume for many others). I participate because it brings out the hate. It demonstrates the hate for all to see. It is the irony that it is the non-christians who speak of love and acceptance, and not the other way around, that make me participate. And it is the hope that some of those who hate will read the words and plainly see it. Do you read this quote and see the hate? I sure hope so, because I do. I wonder what Jesus would say if he read it?

Well the part where he compares a homosexual to a murderer, theif, liar, etc (ie all people who hurt other people) seems hate filled.

 

[Mom4Christ]

Of course it is the non-Christians who are the ones to defend sinful lifestyles. That is not love. If one could accept the sin of homosexuality so easily, I wonder what else they accept.

Once again, we love the sinner, not the sin.

 

[Firscherscherling]

Of course it is the non-Christians who are the ones to defend sinful lifestyles. That is not love. If one could accept the sin of homosexuality so easily, I wonder what else they accept.

Once again, we love the sinner, not the sin.

(and from an earlier post)
I do not discriminate against gays. But I also would not choose to be friends with one, work with one, etc. I am trying to live my life to please God and I choose not to add willful sinners into my life. I would not be friends with a drunk, a drug addict, or a prostitute. Or would you call that discrimination as well?

This is hate, plain and simple. Try to justify it all you want. According to your own beliefs, you will pay a price for your position of hatred toward other human beings.

If you don't get it, take your quote and change the word 'gays' to 'women'. Would you feel someone making such a statement against women loved you? I think not. Yep. Hate.

 

[greeneyedgirl]

Of course it is the non-Christians who are the ones to defend sinful lifestyles..

I have defended homosexuals in this thread many times and let me claify what I believe.

. I believe in God and I believe that Jesus is the son of God. I do not accept the bible as God's word though. It was written by men who had very strong opinions about God and were from that perspective inspired by God. However at times the men would have allowed their personal opinion to be written in the book. The short story of how I came to believe that is by reading the old testemant and seeing so much killing in God's name. Then reading what Jesus taught and seeing him teach "turn the other cheek". Those are obvious contradictions and if the bible was sincerely inspired by God the normal explainations of "just the time" or "they were just evil men" makes no sense and contradicts what Jesus taught. I finally came to the conclusion that I should concentrate on just the parts that Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John attribute to what Jesus taught. There are a few contradictions that have to be explained away in those books as a writer posted earlier and my explaination is they allowed their personal opinion to bleed into the facts. You are right we believe in God by faith but I have lived long enough to realize that believing in a man by faiith can and will hurt me. By showing faith in the bible as God's holy word you are showing more faith in the men who wrote the bible than you are God. It's just what I believe and I am not tryin to change your opinion or your religion. But allow me to show you what Jesus taught about discrimination.

John 14 23-24

Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own: they belong to the Father who sent me"

John 15 10-14

If you obey my commands, you will remian in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command.


Jesus gave his life so that we may live. The lesson of the cross is love and forgiveness. Jesus as he was nearing his death commanded us to Love each other.




John 3 16-17
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever beleives in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.


Love each other can be said another way "All men are created equal" and it isn't up to you or I to judge one another. The mere fact that Jesus was found guilty and crucified shows mankind can judge someone wrong, I mean after all, they sent the Son of God to his death. Alot of people get so tied up in the fact that God sent his son to be crucified that they forget that man was a willing participant.

Matthew 7 1-2

Do not Judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measures you use, it will be measured to you

If you judge someone unfairly then Jesus is telling us he will also judge you by the same standard. God Loved us so much that he allowed his son to die on the cross for our sins. Give peace and love a chance and accept people for who they are and not for who; you think they are.

 

[tcampen]

Mom4Christ wrote: "I am trying to live my life to please God and I choose not to add willful sinners into my life. I would not be friends with a drunk, a drug addict, or a prostitute."

Funny, those are EXACTLY the kinds of people Jesus associated with. If being a Christian means to emulate Christ, then what are you?

 

[Blindfaith]

We are also suppose to guard our minds and our hearts too. We can witness, we can love, but we don't have to be best friends with those that are wilfully living outside of God's will. It all depends on what He tells each person to do.

 

[tcampen]

Since when did Jesus tell anyone "Don't be like me."???

Are you saying Jesus never considered friendship as part of his relationship with Mary Magdalene? Or even better, what about Matthew, whose profession was considered among the most repulsive there was? No friendship of any kind there? Hmmmmmmmmmm. Very interesting take on this Jesus guy.

 

[Mom4Christ]

I agree with blindfaith. I am not best friends with these people. However, one cannot help but be in some sort of contact with drug dealers, prostitutes, etc, especially on a college campus. At school, a lot of our work is done in groups and study sessions for a particular class abound. Not everyone I come into contact with believes in the same things I do. I do my best to show God's love to these people, and it is clear that I am a Christian. I do not debate or openly express controversial topics in school. That is one way to get beat up by people who disagree with me. I also do not just go out to the movies or to parties with these people.

I agree that there any many Christian hypocrites out there. But there are hypocrites in every belief system. If no one was a hypocrite, then everyone would be perfect. But no one is perfect and I do not claim to be either. Emulating Christ is a hard thing to do because he was perfect. I follow my beliefs the best I can. I know I can't force them on anyone else, but I do share them, just as everyone has here.

 

[Blindfaith]

Good post Mom4Christ! Very well said.

tcampen - there's no comparison of me with Jesus. He's absolutely perfect, blameless and flawless. I've got more internal flaws than a 50 year old road map . My point here is, is that Jesus could handle going into the "despot" of society. If He were here in the flesh right now, He could walk into the Missions shelter in your local city, preach the Word like there's no tomorrow, and touch people so that they're instantly healed. I can't do that.

But. When a homeless person comes up to me and asks for money, I ask them if they'd like some food. I don't "chat" with my neighbor because he's a drug dealer, and is dangerous. But I pray for him. Sometimes it's difficult, especially when he's cranking up Kid Rock when my little ones are outside playing. On purpose. Are you going to sit there and condemn me because I'm concerned over the safety of my children? ::shrug:: Whether you, or anyone else, condemns me because I'm not absolutely perfect like Jesus, doesn't matter to me. I'll keep praying for the lost, and for the hungry. For the drug addicts, the prostitutes, my neighbor. What I do for others, I'm not about to brag about in here. The scriptures tell us that we aren't suppose to be doing things for the recognition of others, but only for the glory of God.

I'll bet there are a LOT of Christians that do amazing things, but don't pat themselves on the back and brag about it in public.

 

[Icystwolf]

Of course it is the non-Christians who are the ones to defend sinful lifestyles. That is not love. If one could accept the sin of homosexuality so easily, I wonder what else they accept.

Once again, we love the sinner, not the sin.

I totally agree, which sums up the Christian faith with homosexuality. I've tried so hard to explain this, and I've repeated this so many times.

I would have thought by now everyone would have realised, that this isn't going anywhere. Everyone is trying to change everyone elses opinion.

My opinion is that Homosexuals can lead a heterosexual life or can convert to becoming a heterosexual. This is based from a friend back at my old church, who has a family now and has practised homosexuality for over 10yrs before becoming a heterosexual.
To change a fact, a living proof is very hard, yet there are still people who can give me a full proof explanation without even knowing who phillip is.

Oh well...I only visited this thread because of my curiosity of why it's still going on.

I personally don't believe the pro-homo's and the anti-homo's are going to change their stance, so why bother?

 

[greeneyedgirl]

My opinion is that Homosexuals can lead a heterosexual life or can convert to becoming a heterosexual. This is based from a friend back at my old church, who has a family now and has practised homosexuality for over 10yrs before becoming a heterosexual.
To change a fact, a living proof is very hard, yet there are still people who can give me a full proof explanation without even knowing who phillip is. :

But sometimes someone's opinion isn't a fact but is merely an opinion as an example:

Your friend hasn't proven that a homosexual can lead a hetersexual life but he has shown he is a bisexual . You can't even prove that he has remained a practicing heterosexual. There are many married men that sneak around with homosexuals out of fear.
I respect any person's right to pick and choose their friends but if you are going to accuse around 2 or 5 million people of being an adomination against God because they are homosexual than that is clealy showing discrimination. For you to think that there are not any loving homosexuals that love the Lord with all their heart is shortsighted.

 

[Blindfaith]

For you to think that there are not any loving homosexuals that love the Lord with all their heart is shortsighted.

Where did the poster say this? I didn't get that from his/her post at all.

 

[greeneyedgirl]

Blindfaith the name of the thread does and what I actually said was :

but if you are going to accuse around 2 or 5 million people of being an adomination against God because they are homosexual than that is clealy showing discrimination. For you to think that there are not any loving homosexuals that love the Lord with all their heart is shortsighted.

 

[afnospam]

I know homosexuals that seem to profess a genuine love for God. However, they deceive themselves by recognizing their sinful behavior. For a true Christian, we realize that sin continue to be a mark or character of our life if we love the Lord. In Matthew 25:32 it says "All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats." Our failure to recognize sin and ignore it will lead to God rightly discriminate/choose between those that are His and those that are not.

+

 

[greeneyedgirl]

But you are overlooking something here:

n Matthew 25:32 it says "All the nations will be gathered before him..... Him being God and not you or the church. You can think that homosexuality is a sin against God but that doesn't make it a sin against God and Jesus also said :

ohn 14 23-24

Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own: they belong to the Father who sent me"

John 15 10-14

If you obey my commands, you will remian in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command.


Jesus gave his life so that we may live. The lesson of the cross is love and forgiveness. Jesus as he was nearing his death commanded us to Love each other.




John 3 16-17
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever beleives in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.


Love each other can be said another way "All men are created equal" and it isn't up to you or I to judge one another. The mere fact that Jesus was found guilty and crucified shows mankind can judge someone wrong, I mean after all, they sent the Son of God to his death. Alot of people get so tied up in the fact that God sent his son to be crucified that they forget that man was a willing participant.

Matthew 7 1-2

Do not Judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measures you use, it will be measured to you

If you judge someone unfairly then Jesus is telling us he will also judge you by the same standard. God Loved us so much that he allowed his son to die on the cross for our sins. Give peace and love a chance and accept people for who they are and not for who; you think they are.

 

[Firscherscherling]

Greeneyed,

You are awesome!

Thanks!

 

[tcampen]

"I know homosexuals that seem to profess a genuine love for God. However, they deceive themselves by recognizing their sinful behavior. For a true Christian, we realize that sin continue to be a mark or character of our life if we love the Lord."

All people sin, including saved christians. And this includes "intential" sins, for a sin must be intential by its very definition. It would be somewhat hipocritical to say that a person can be saved and commit some sins, but not others. Where do you draw the line? Clearly some draw it at committing homosexual acts being something no saved person would do.

Do saved people lie? Cheat? Steal? Hurt others? etc, etc, etc? It seems there is a lot of stone throwing going on, if you catch my drift.