Homosexuality - Here I stand.

[LightHorseman]

We don't stand for parliamentary decisions in America.

I was just searching for something to explain this parliamentary phenomenon that is occurring in our world today and being pushed upon Americans and I came across the wiki unfortunately (as I don't trust the wiki's because these aren't written by scholars) but I did find it interesting that the countries that have this "parliamentary society" are the ones who have legalized same sex MARRIAGE (except South Africa is not on the list and I don't think Australia has same sex marriage yet, but all or most of the others do or probably will soon). However, Americans do not and will not accept a parliamentary tyrannical society. We are the land of the free and the home of the brave, remember. And a country of the people by the people for the people. Not a country of the judges for the judges by the judges.

• 4.7 Subnational parliamentary government
  • 4.7.1 Canada
  • 4.7.2 Australia
  • 4.7.3 Belgium
  • 4.7.4 Denmark
  • 4.7.5 The Netherlands
  • 4.7.6 Finland
  • 4.7.7 Spain
  • 4.7.8 United Kingdom
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament

Just what, exactly, do you mean by "parliamentary phenomenon", and how do you consider "parliamentary government" to be different to American government? I mean generally speaking, not the minutiae of what the different chambers are called and so on.

 

[JacobHall86]

If you are going to ignore the Bible when it condemns homosexuality. <Staff Edit> You are a follower of Moralistic Therapeutic Deism, because you are more concerned with feelings and making sure everyone is included than the truth and offense of scripture.

 

[JacobHall86]

Also, Don't corrupt a quote from Luther to spread your non-christian belief.

 

[RMDY]

I thought this would be interesting to note:

There is a polygamy trial in Canada at this present time. The defence is going to argue for the legalization of polygamy since "marriage has changed" and now includes same-sex marriage.

Also, MSNBC had an article in favour of polygamy the other day and many people posted comments supporting it as long as it didn't hurt anyone.

 

[savedandhappy1]

None of the 66 books of the Bible ever mention anyone being left handed either, but that doesn't mean left handedness is an abomination, does it?

Could it be that the Bible refers to the DOMINANT PARADIGMS of the day? Infering that all minority practices are to be conducted in accord with the major themes, even if it doesn't discuss them directly? Makes sense to me.

Could it be that you are grasping for straws when you think that saying something about being left handed could even be consider as some sort of proof of something.

You really think that makes sense??????????????

Is there a book of the Bible that doesn't mention something about man and woman as husband and wife.....................well maybe Revelation.............and that really doesn't seem quite clear to you as to what God was showing us?

Being left handed isn't a sin, it is what you do with that left hand that can either be sinful or righteous. It isn't the car or the computer, thought I should bring them up, since that is the strange examples that is usually given as compared to left handedness that is of God or not. It is what is done with them that makes it good or bad.

So what about the qualifications for a bishop and a deacon? They are to be the husband of one wife, you really aren't going to tell me the DOMINANT PARADIGMS of the day really goes with this also?

Who would want someone to believe that telling white lies isn't a sin, even if the bible says that liars will not inherit the kingdom of God? Who would want to take any and all of those things that are listed as things that will keep you out of the Kingdom and change .....................................

It saddens me more and more everyday when I see clearly stated things of the Word of God made to seem confusing or muddy and not clear. I know that the Bible says these things have to happen as we get closer and closer to His return, but yet it still breaks my heart that people I know and love may not be with me in heaven.

 

[LightHorseman]

Could it be that you are grasping for straws when you think that saying something about being left handed could even be consider as some sort of proof of something.

Don't think its straw grasping at all. There are literally millions upon millions of things the Bible doesn't mention, this doesn't mean they are condemned.

You really think that makes sense??????????????

That the Bible is written as a generalist work, rather than overly specific, lest it bog down in minutiae? Yes, it makes sense to me.

Is there a book of the Bible that doesn't mention something about man and woman as husband and wife.....................well maybe Revelation.............and that really doesn't seem quite clear to you as to what God was showing us?

Yes, the Bible is pro-man and wife. No question. But its nbot an either/or proposition... you can support both man and wife, and man and man, and wife and wife, or even man and wife and wife, or wife and man and man all at the same time.

So what about the qualifications for a bishop and a deacon? They are to be the husband of one wife, you really aren't going to tell me the DOMINANT PARADIGMS of the day really goes with this also?

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. I think its an interesting verse though, since it misses a beautiful opportunity to condemn polygamy for the laity.

Who would want someone to believe that telling white lies isn't a sin, even if the bible says that liars will not inherit the kingdom of God? Who would want to take any and all of those things that are listed as things that will keep you out of the Kingdom and change .....................................

There are quite a few things the Bible says are sins which we don't believe are sins any more.

It saddens me more and more everyday when I see clearly stated things of the Word of God made to seem confusing or muddy and not clear. I know that the Bible says these things have to happen as we get closer and closer to His return, but yet it still breaks my heart that people I know and love may not be with me in heaven.

"Love your neighbour as yourself." Nothing muddy or confusing about that.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Don't think its straw grasping at all. There are literally millions upon millions of things the Bible doesn't mention, this doesn't mean they are condemned.That the Bible is written as a generalist work, rather than overly specific, lest it bog down in minutiae?

Hum, seems quite specific to me, but I guess we can see just as easliy as we can't see.

Yes, it makes sense to me.Yes, the Bible is pro-man and wife. No question. But its nbot an either/or proposition... you can support both man and wife, and man and man, and wife and wife, or even man and wife and wife, or wife and man and man all at the same time.

Not if you believe and follow the teaching of the Lord you can't.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. I think its an interesting verse though, since it misses a beautiful opportunity to condemn polygamy for the laity.There are quite a few things the Bible says are sins which we don't believe are sins any more."Love your neighbour as yourself." Nothing muddy or confusing about that.

I always love it when a person is told they aren't loving their neighbor, because they will not close their eyes to sin in their neighbors life or even their own sin. The sad thing is that so many people believe that it is true.

I have ask many a person to tell me what they believe the biblical definition of love is, when they try to make people think I'm the hater, etc., they always ignore that and continue to heatedly do all the things they claim I am doing. Never surprises me anymore, or aleast not as badly as it did at first.

I always thought the deceiving that is spoke of in the last days was going to be during the tribulation, but daily I see that is just as relivent today as it will be then.

Again, my heart is heavy and saddened by the thought of so many people who may not receive the salvation that is freely given.

I have been told I am a hater, bigot, etc., all for believing the bible, and trying my best to follow it. I have been cussed at, had false witness against me all the while being told I am the one that is the hater.

Hmm, brings several other scriptures to mind, like good will be called bad and bad good. Or they will follow unsound doctrine......................so many scriptures come to mind, but no reason to post them.

Jesus loves everyone and I have never read a scripture that says He ignored or told someone it was ok to sin, because He didn't want to offend them by telling them what they were doing was wrong.

If you have that scripture I would love to study it, so ask that you please post it for me. Thanks.


P.S.
I wonder what they would have told Jesus or what they would have called Him if He pointed out sin in their lives? Oh yeah I remember now they killed Him. How could I have forgot.

 

[Inviolable]

I thought this would be interesting to note:

There is a polygamy trial in Canada at this present time. The defence is going to argue for the legalization of polygamy since "marriage has changed" and now includes same-sex marriage.

Also, MSNBC had an article in favour of polygamy the other day and many people posted comments supporting it as long as it didn't hurt anyone.

Thanks for sharing that.

Are there any links?

 

[SughaNSpice]

If you are going to ignore the Bible when it condemns homosexuality, do the rest of us a favor and stop calling yourself a Christian. You are not, you are a follower of Moralistic Therapeutic Deism, because you are more concerned with feelings and making sure everyone is included than the truth and offense of scripture.

The bible has been used to justify slavery
Racism
Anti-Semitism
Sexism
Genocide
And a host of other evil things

If you want to use the bible to justify anti-gay prejudice then you are left holding these things as well




There is more than a little question as to the condemnations you are referring to. It seems they rely on questionable translations that seem to have more to do with politics than with language.

When in doubt a Christian relies on the teachings of Jesus. His command that we love each other leaves no room for prejudice and discrimination

 

[david_x]

The bible has been used to justify slavery
Racism
Anti-Semitism
Sexism
Genocide
And a host of other evil things

If you want to use the bible to justify anti-gay prejudice then you are left holding these things as well




There is more than a little question as to the condemnations you are referring to. It seems they rely on questionable translations that seem to have more to do with politics than with language.

When in doubt a Christian relies on the teachings of Jesus. His command that we love each other leaves no room for prejudice and discrimination

The bible has been manipulated, but so have many good things. Torture during the Holocaust was done in the name of science.

 

[Zeena]

The bible has been used to justify slavery
Racism
Anti-Semitism
Sexism
Genocide
And a host of other evil things

If you want to use the bible to justify anti-gay prejudice then you are left holding these things as well




There is more than a little question as to the condemnations you are referring to. It seems they rely on questionable translations that seem to have more to do with politics than with language.

When in doubt a Christian relies on the teachings of Jesus. His command that we love each other leaves no room for prejudice and discrimination

Love the sinner, hate the sin

 

[JacobHall86]

The bible has been used to justify slavery
Racism
Anti-Semitism
Sexism
Genocide
And a host of other evil things

If you want to use the bible to justify anti-gay prejudice then you are left holding these things as well




There is more than a little question as to the condemnations you are referring to. It seems they rely on questionable translations that seem to have more to do with politics than with language.

When in doubt a Christian relies on the teachings of Jesus. His command that we love each other leaves no room for prejudice and discrimination

Not at the expense of Holiness. You are condoning sin, that is never ever glorifying to God. Ever.

 

[Polycarp1]

But that gives rise to a question, Jacob. What does 'condoning sin' mean? What actions or inactions 'condone' sin? If I decline to denounce the people who ban gay people they consider unrepentant from their churches, am I condoning their sin in driving away those whom Christ has called to Himself? Where in Scripture are we called on to judge the sins of others? Are we not warned that we should not, lest we bring that same judgment on ourselves? (When Jesus says, 'judge righteous judgment,' He is not speaking of sitting in judgment over the sins of another, but of making our judgments conform to His definition of rithteousness -- which is to humble ourselves before God, realizing that only in His grace are we redeemed and justified, and that we have no righteousness within ourselves.)

 

[SughaNSpice]

The bible has been manipulated, but so have many good things. Torture during the Holocaust was done in the name of science.

How is manipulating the bible to justify anti-gay prejudice any different from manipulating the bible to justify racism?

 

[SughaNSpice]

Love the sinner, hate the sin

It has been my experience that this catch phrase is used to justify hating the person

 

[SughaNSpice]

Not at the expense of Holiness. You are condoning sin, that is never ever glorifying to God. Ever.

Again here is considerable debate about whether or not being gay is a sin at all. The condemnations rely on questionable translations that appear to be in place because of political reasons and not for any linguistic reasons

 

[JacobHall86]

The passage says not to lie with a man as with a woman, how is that hard to translate? It means that you don't put your junk in another dude. You are ignoring what the Bible teaches as sin so that you can conform to the world. You are selling out to the culture and are of no use to the Gospel when you do that.

 

[JacobHall86]

But that gives rise to a question, Jacob. What does 'condoning sin' mean? What actions or inactions 'condone' sin? If I decline to denounce the people who ban gay people they consider unrepentant from their churches, am I condoning their sin in driving away those whom Christ has called to Himself? Where in Scripture are we called on to judge the sins of others? Are we not warned that we should not, lest we bring that same judgment on ourselves? (When Jesus says, 'judge righteous judgment,' He is not speaking of sitting in judgment over the sins of another, but of making our judgments conform to His definition of rithteousness -- which is to humble ourselves before God, realizing that only in His grace are we redeemed and justified, and that we have no righteousness within ourselves.)

I agree that we are to judge righteously and that means as Christ would. That means that everyone is screwed because none are good. This is not a good guys versus bad gays, because there are no good guys, its bad guys and Jesus.

here is my deal with homosexuality in the church, its like every other sin, it must be cast out. The only difference is that those who only take the Bible half way serious want to "open their minds and hearts and doors" to everyone, at the expense of holiness. They need to do Christendom a favor and become unitarian, because they sure aren't preaching the Gospel of "Repent and Believe".

 

[JacobHall86]

Again here is considerable debate about whether or not being gay is a sin at all. The condemnations rely on questionable translations that appear to be in place because of political reasons and not for any linguistic reasons

There is no debate, it is a sin. The only people who disagree are attempting to interject modern day beliefs into scripture.

 

[Polycarp1]

I agree that we are to judge righteously and that means as Christ would. That means that everyone is screwed because none are good. This is not a good guys versus bad gays, because there are no good guys, its bad guys and Jesus.

here is my deal with homosexuality in the church, its like every other sin, it must be cast out. The only difference is that those who only take the Bible half way serious want to "open their minds and hearts and doors" to everyone, at the expense of holiness. They need to do Christendom a favor and become unitarian, because they sure aren't preaching the Gospel of "Repent and Believe".

Would you like it if someone told you to "Do Christendom a favor and become a Pharisaic Jew?" I'd predict not (and I'm of course not saying it to you) -- what I am saying is to look at Jesus's Commandment the Golden Rule, and act accordingly.