Homosexuality - Here I stand.

one11 · Jan 14, 2009

LightHorseman said:
No, no, thats MY wording... I submit that homosexuality appears to be the ONLY condemned activity that does not have a clearly explicable reason for being condemned.

Just for the sake of argument here, why do YOU think God called the homosexual act detestable or an abomination?

Zeena · Jan 14, 2009

Sitswithamouse said:
Consider you went to a mega church, or a evangelical church. A smaller church, a congregation.
Your leader who imbibed by the holy spirit forbids you to partake of an act that the bible says is wrong. Now your pastor has been outed to be an adulterer, a voyeur of pornography, a Gay a lesbian a theif a liar a blasphemor
Why would you stay with a leader human or not, who has betrayed your very beliefs.
Who are the sheep and who are the wolves in this situation when you have been led astray?

Umm, that's a twisting of the original question from faith in God to faith in man..

Sitswithamouse said:
I understand that.
But.........
What if a pastor told you that being Gay was a sin and then in private engaged in homosexual acts?

ETA.. and you were convicted by the holy spirit after his advice that he was right and telling the truth?

Rudolph Hucker · Jan 14, 2009

An interesting article ... http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/13/MNTG159HHG.DTL&type=politics&tsp=1

LightHorseman · Jan 14, 2009

one11 said:
Just for the sake of argument here, why do YOU think God called the homosexual act detestable or an abomination?

I don't think HE did.

one11 · Jan 14, 2009

Rudolph Hucker said:
An interesting article ... http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/13/MNTG159HHG.DTL&type=politics&tsp=1

I've read some things on that issue and it's a very complex issue because sexuality is not part of a soldiers role. A soldiers role is to be a complete team outside of all prejudices (whether skin color, a female is lesser than a male, religious beliefs, political beliefs, or whatever) in order to stay alive.

I was kind of in the camp where I thought the military should decide because I don't know what's it like to be a soldier nor what it's like to fight to stay alive. But even in the past great wars Christians and Jews and others fought side by side and when in the line of duty, a soldier is a soldier and not supposed to be much more.

For instance in boot camp, the Commander will say things like:

You are a piece of _________, aren't you?

And the inductee has to say "Sir, yes sir."

And it gets worse from there!

Training to be a soldier is learning to listen to commands no matter what anyone calls you.

The military is it's own kind of beast I don't really understand. All I know is the point is to stay alive.

Zeena · Jan 14, 2009

LightHorseman said:
I mean finish the following cause/effect statement for me;

playing in the street is bad BECAUSE the child could be hit by a car, and be badly hurt or killed.

Homosexuality is bad BECAUSE .....

Lieing for profit is bad because...?

God said so!

Zeena · Jan 14, 2009

LightHorseman said:
I'm not taking the Bible lightly. But I'm not blindly following it either.

Like I say, show me WHY homosexuality is wrong, and I'll condemn it. I sincerely believe it is wrong, ethically, morally and BIBLICALLY to condemn things without understanding the reason for doing so.

Isaiah 42:19
Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant?

LightHorseman · Jan 14, 2009

Zeena said:
Lieing for profit is bad because...?

God said so!

No, lying for profit is bad because it hurts other people.

Zeena · Jan 14, 2009

HuntingMan said:
Regardless of whether they were involved in this act PRIOR to God turning them over to it or not it is quite CLEAR that these acts themselves are all of the things listed above else scripture is quite erroneous to begin with.
These acts being defined as men and woman leaving the natural and lusting after those of the same gender and carrying out those lusts into actions.

It is clear that it was after they chose not to Glorify God in the body that God gave them over to do what aught not be done;

Romans 1:22-24

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves:

Zeena · Jan 14, 2009

LightHorseman said:
No, lying for profit is bad because it hurts other people.

No;

Lying [purgury] for the sake of saving your husband from jail hurts someone?
When you know in your heart he will not commit a crime again?

This would surely be for personal profit, yet alltogether unprofitable for the soul of that sinner!

LightHorseman · Jan 14, 2009

Zeena said:
No;

Lying [purgury] for the sake of saving your husband from jail hurts someone?
When you know in your heart he will not commit a crime again?

This would surely be for personal profit, yet alltogether unprofitable for the soul of that sinner!

Wrong, it hurts the victims of your husband's crime. Nice try though.

one11 · Jan 14, 2009

LightHorseman said:
No, lying for profit is bad because it hurts other people.

So you don't think any STD disease, even AIDS, and other STD's have killed people?

(though hetero and homos and bis - all guilty for spreading STD's)

Unclean sex causes people to die.

LightHorseman · Jan 14, 2009

one11 said:
So you don't think any STD disease, even AIDS, and other STD's have killed people?

(though hetero and homos and bis - all guilty for spreading STD's)

Unclean sex causes people to die.

Sure STDs have killed people. Which makes unclean or unsafe sex wrong, not homosexuality. It may interest you to note that worldwide far more heterosexuals are infected with AIDS than homosexuals are.

Next?

wayseer · Jan 14, 2009

Hentenza said:
Unless you can biblically prove that God created homosexual sex then all you have is your opinion.

Either God is creator or he is not. If he is Creator then all that is created is God's - including homosexuality, and murderers, and ......

However, what you are talking about is not 'Creation' but social construction - society has created labels for behaviour and ascribed sanctions. Society has been ably assisted by scripture for those who ascribe to those 'social sanctions'. That's OK - all societies do as much - but to then claim that such 'sanctions' are God's is not sustainable - it is political.

Zeena · Jan 14, 2009

LightHorseman said:
Wrong, it hurts the victims of your husband's crime. Nice try though.

Is that so?

What if there are not victims, and the law simply says that, say; Sleeping in the park is a crime..

Are you sure you got your thinking cap on? :o

Zeena · Jan 14, 2009

wayseer said:
Either God is creator or he is not. If he is Creator then all that is created is God's - including homosexuality, and murderers, and ......

However, what you are talking about is not 'Creation' but social construction - society has created labels for behaviour and ascribed sanctions. Society has been ably assisted by scripture for those who ascribe to those 'social sanctions'. That's OK - all societies do as much - but to then claim that such 'sanctions' are God's is not sustainable - it is political.

So, for the sake of your enlightenment, you now accuse the Holy God Allmighty as the Author of sin? :o

Ecclesiastes 7:29
Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

one11 · Jan 14, 2009

LightHorseman said:
Sure STDs have killed people. Which makes unclean or unsafe sex wrong, not homosexuality. It may interest you to note that worldwide far more heterosexuals are infected with AIDS than homosexuals are.

Next?

While that may be true in Africa and other countries that is because anal sex with a woman who is not the man's wife is considered okay. Penile/vaginal intercourse is for one's spouse only in most Islamic countries, though the Islamic men who hit on me (and there were several) only wanted anal sex, so I know first hand and they were weirdos.

Much of Africa is Islamic and the people there are very poor, so a when a man would leave for a long time to look for work he would stop at prostitutes along the way which they would have anal sex with. Then as the man received some money and found his way back to his wife, he would have penile/vaginal intercourse with his wife.

This is well documented, but it's still being near the fecal matter.

wayseer · Jan 14, 2009

Zeena said:
So, for the sake of your enlightenment, you now accuse the Holy God Allmighty as the Author of sin?

No. I'm outlining the end game in such arguments as you raise that 'God did not create homosexuality'. If God is Creator then he had to have created homosexuality. Or do you intend to play God and determine what he created and what he did not create?

Man 'created' homosexuality - not God.

LightHorseman · Jan 14, 2009

Zeena said:
Is that so?

What if there are not victims, and the law simply says that, say; Sleeping in the park is a crime..

Are you sure you got your thinking cap on? :o

You are positing a courtcase where your husband is accused of sleeping in a public park, and you have to decide whether or not to lie for him to save him from a $61 fine, and thats the best example you can come up with of an example where mutual adult consent doesn't negate a percieved arbitrary moral imperitive? Sad...

However, just to cat your pigeons, I'll point out that it is always morally acceptible to resist an unjust law, so lying to secure an innocence finding when someone is accused of a victimless crime is arguable as or more morally correct than telling the truth and allowing someone to be convicted under an unjust law.

(Minor end point, as a wife, any evidence you have to give is inadmissible anyway, so the whole issue is rather moot)

david_x · Jan 14, 2009

Dude. I feel ignored...

Homosexuality - Here I stand.

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