Homosexuality - Here I stand.

[Jase]

No ambiguity or misinterpretation if you believe in the word of God in its entirety instead of picking and choosing what meets today's relative morality. What you fail to understand is that is not two verses that condemn the homosexual act but the totality of the bible. God did not create the homosexual act so is not of God.

As far as the earth being geocentric or flat, that's another thread.

Ah, but it's not for another thread because it highlights your own hypocrisy. You are just as guilty of not believing the Bible in its entirety if you reject that the Earth is flat and geocentric, since the Bible, Hebrew Cosmology, and history make it quite clear that that is what the Bible indicates to be the case. We know both to be false. So if you also agree those to be false, then you are not accepting the Bible in its entirety and are guilty of the same "cherry-picking" you accuse us of.

 

[Hentenza]

Humans are above animals. But we are still regulated by the same drives as animals. If God gave a drive to animals, and gave the same drive to humans, it seems difficult to reason that he is OK with one such drive, and not with the other.

How do you work out which drives God is happy for us to follow, and which we should divorce ourselves from?

Nah, it's a big leap to equate animal's "drive" with that of humans. I think independent thinking might have something to do with it.

 

[david_x]

Humans are above animals. But we are still regulated by the same drives as animals. If God gave a drive to animals, and gave the same drive to humans, it seems difficult to reason that he is OK with one such drive, and not with the other.

If you need evidence that God thinks of us differently then animals, remember Christ. Christ came to redeem people with his blood, not animals.

 

[LightHorseman]

I can tell you of the way that my dog looks at my leg sometimes.

If you are genuinely interested in learning, rather than only seeking to prop up your a priori position, you might be interested to look into the psychology of this phenomenon. In short, your dog does not think of you as a different species, indeed, dogs sometimes "hump" peoples' legs explicitly because they percieve those people as members of their own pack... i.e. as dogs.

http://www.sarahsdogs.com/qa/why_do_dogs_hump.html

 

[HuntingMan]

A simple reading of Genesis also shows that the ancient Hebrews believed the earth was flat, geocentric, had a giant dome over it holding the stars, and that there was a flood covering the entire Earth during the pinnacle of Egyptian civilization. All of which are quit solidly shown to be false. A simple reading of Genesis proves nothing.

Firstly Id like to see something legitimate to PROVE that this was what the ancient Hebrews believed.
Then when you provide that evidence Im going to say 'so what'....the ancient Hebrews did and believed a LOT of things that were out of line with Gods will and intent for them....they missed the mark on TONS of things and that is proven in the NT in one of the letters to the Corinthian church.
They COULDNT understand the OT writings, so even IF many of them had some oddball understanding of the universe it doesnt show that the SCRIPTURES were wrong in the matter and it is entirely meaningless as far as THIS topic is concerned.

 

[LightHorseman]

Nah, it's a big leap to equate animal's "drive" with that of humans. I think independent thinking might have something to do with it.

How do you figure? You think there is something intrinsically different between the desire of humans to find shelter, comfort, socialisation, food, sex and safety, and the desire of animals to find the same exact things?

 

[Hentenza]

Ah, but it's not for another thread because it highlights your own hypocrisy. You are just as guilty of not believing the Bible in its entirety if you reject that the Earth is flat and geocentric, since the Bible, Hebrew Cosmology, and history make it quite clear that that is what the Bible indicates to be the case. We know both to be false. So if you also agree those to be false, then you are not accepting the Bible in its entirety and are guilty of the same "cherry-picking" you accuse us of.

True to form Jase. Throw in another topic to divert attention from your inability to discuss the topic. Typical debate divergent tactic. Heck, and lets throw in some insults for good measure.

 

[HuntingMan]

If you are genuinely interested in learning, rather than only seeking to prop up your a priori position, you might be interested to look into the psychology of this phenomenon. In short, your dog does not think of you as a different species, indeed, dogs sometimes "hump" peoples' legs explicitly because they percieve those people as members of their own pack... i.e. as dogs.

http://www.sarahsdogs.com/qa/why_do_dogs_hump.html

And when the dog humps the cat 1/8th its size ?
youre grasping at straws, friend....

 

[Jase]

I guess you don't believe in 1 Corinthians either. Did you get the part about the different 'flesh"? I noticed that you didn't address that part.

Humans are above animals. Their being created as a likeness of god proves that.

BTW- Yes, I like this argument because is scriptural.

Our likeness of God is only based on our intelligence, rationality, and spirituality. Biologically, there is no such thing as different "flesh". We are 97% identical to Chimpanzees.

 

[LightHorseman]

If you need evidence that God thinks of us differently then animals, remember Christ. Christ came to redeem people with his blood, not animals.

I am quite sure that God doies think of us differently than he thinks of animals. However, I don't buy the "homosexuality is wrong cos is unnatural" argument when there is so much homosexuality in nature

 

[LightHorseman]

And when the dog humps the cat 1/8th its size ?
youre grasping at straws, friend....

By all means, disregard all the contrary evidence. Whatever you do, DON'T read the perfectly good article that explains the "humping" behaviour of dogs.

For myself, I'll go with the explanations that can withstand scrutiny in light of other facts.

 

[HuntingMan]

Our likeness of God is only based on our intelligence, rationality, and spirituality. Biologically, there is no such thing as different "flesh". We are 97% identical to Chimpanzees.

Dont chimps fling their crap at each other ?
Maybe thats something we humans ought to try too

 

[HuntingMan]

By all means, disregard all the contrary evidence. Whatever you do, DON'T read the perfectly good article that explains the "humping" behaviour of dogs.

Ive SEEN dogs humping cats, friend....and a list of other animals including pigs and even trying to get a rabbit....so please.

For myself, I'll go with the explanations that can withstand scrutiny in light of other facts.

Or you'll run with any explanation that makes you feel good about what you want to believe.

 

[Hentenza]

How do you figure? You think there is something intrinsically different between the desire of humans to find shelter, comfort, socialisation, food, sex and safety, and the desire of animals to find the same exact things?

Lets see:

Shelter, a house versus a cave or a hole in the ground
Comfort, a bed versus the ground.
Socialization, saying hello or shaking hands versus sniffing each other's butts.
Food, steak medium rare versus steak reeeeeelly rare or a can of dog food.
Sex, wife versus table leg, tree, pant leg, etc.
Safety, I have a permit to carry a gun versus kill or be killed.

Yep! I guess there is a difference.

 

[LightHorseman]

Dont chimps fling their crap at each other ?
Maybe thats something we humans ought to try too

If humans had an instinctive urge to do so, then yes. As it is, your remark is a red herring

 

[Jase]

Firstly Id like to see something legitimate to PROVE that this was what the ancient Hebrews believed.
Then when you provide that evidence Im going to say 'so what'....the ancient Hebrews did and believed a LOT of things that were out of line with Gods will and intent for them....they missed the mark on TONS of things and that is proven in the NT in one of the letters to the Corinthian church.
They COULDNT understand the OT writings, so even IF many of them had some oddball understanding of the universe it doesnt show that the SCRIPTURES were wrong in the matter and it is entirely meaningless as far as THIS topic is concerned.

Firstly, what evidence would actually satisfy your curiosity on the issue seeing as you are quite closed minded, and I'd rather not waste my time on presenting information I know for a fact you will reject without hesitation.

And if the ancient Hebrews (yeah, those people who wrote the Bible) missed the mark on the cosmology of the universe, who is to say they didn't miss the mark on everything they wrote in the Bible? The people that believed the falsehoods about the universe in Genesis are the same people that wrote that Jesus rose from the dead. God didn't write the Bible, I don't think you grasp that concept. Those people with an "oddball understanding of the universe" did.

 

[Hentenza]

If you are genuinely interested in learning, rather than only seeking to prop up your a priori position, you might be interested to look into the psychology of this phenomenon. In short, your dog does not think of you as a different species, indeed, dogs sometimes "hump" peoples' legs explicitly because they percieve those people as members of their own pack... i.e. as dogs.

http://www.sarahsdogs.com/qa/why_do_dogs_hump.html

Oh please. Does that apply to the tree stump in my back yard also?

 

[LightHorseman]

Ive SEEN dogs humping cats, friend....and a list of other animals including pigs and even trying to get a rabbit....so please.

Or you'll run with any explanation that makes you feel good about what you want to believe.

Yes, dogs will "hump" animals of other species, and this behaviour is well documented and explained. Also, you will note, this behaviour is completely absent from the wild. I'll go with the explanation that makes the most sense in the light of the best available evidence. Why anyone would wish to do otherwise is a mystery.

 

[LightHorseman]

Lets see:

Shelter, a house versus a cave or a hole in the ground
Comfort, a bed versus the ground.
Socialization, saying hello or shaking hands versus sniffing each other's butts.
Food, steak medium rare versus steak reeeeeelly rare or a can of dog food.
Sex, wife versus table leg, tree, pant leg, etc.
Safety, I have a permit to carry a gun versus kill or be killed.

Yep! I guess there is a difference.

These are just matters of degree, and Westernised post industrial degree at that. Caves and a bed of twigs or straw was good enough for most of your ancestors, just for example. There is no intrinsic difference between a human's desire to get out of the rain, and a dog's desire to get out of the rain. The human is merely more proficient at constructing shelter.

 

[Jase]

Lets see:

Shelter, a house versus a cave or a hole in the ground
Comfort, a bed versus the ground.
Socialization, saying hello or shaking hands versus sniffing each other's butts.
Food, steak medium rare versus steak reeeeeelly rare or a can of dog food.
Sex, wife versus table leg, tree, pant leg, etc.
Safety, I have a permit to carry a gun versus kill or be killed.

Yep! I guess there is a difference.

None of this proves anything regarding human nature, other than we have higher intelligence and have therefore become technologically advanced. Primitive humans ate raw meat, slept on the ground, lived in caves, and used rocks as weapons. Were they not human?