Homosexuality from a christian point of veiw.

[Faith In God]

Ummmmm, I don't think this is the appropriate forum to discuss all the ways to have sex. You do realize their are many ways to have "sex"? Intercourse is but one!

If I say "sex", you assume I mean precisely "heterosexual intercourse". If I say "homosexual sex", you would assume what is closest, done by homosexuals. The English language is flexible like that sometimes. Hypersensitivity is just dragging out this infinitely long issue longer

You said :



So I responded that their ARE provisions!

Yes. I'm sorry. I meant to say what I editted the post to. Reread it, please.

Since neither of us live in a theocracy, your personal beliefs are irrelevant to society at large.

That's quite alright. If I'm the only one not robbing banks, so be it. God is my judge (as well as everyone else's)

Remeber, you can personally believe in God, or the man in the moon for that matter in our countries! This is true freedom of religion! The govt is to enact laws that are for ALL in the country. This way you can personally oppose things you don't like, just like everyone else!

(If you want to report this, try to find fault in its substance) What Democrats don't like is the fetus taking precedent over a woman's right to be free of pregnancy. Biblically, it is wrong for women to have this right to kill the fetus. Just because others disagree (including those who want abortions) doesn't make them right, nor does it mean we should make laws to accomodate those who want to believe it is okay!

 

[spinto]

One of these high risk sexual activities would be homosexual intercourse. Thus, the point.

Sorry, nope you missed it. Homosexual relationships are no more prone to STD's than any other kind of relationship. Unsafe sex is the culprit, not homosexuality.

It is very sad that you hold these misconceptions as truth. And all to discredit people who find themselves homosexual... Why? I know why--it's because they don't check off on the Christian check list... That's why. It just makes me very sad because many people suffer for these misconceptions. All in the name of some "idea" of morality.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Sorry, nope you missed it. Homosexual relationships are no more prone to STD's than any other kind of relationship. Unsafe sex is the culprit, not homosexuality.

It is very sad that you hold these misconceptions as truth. And all to discredit people who find themselves homosexual... Why? I know why--it's because they don't check off on the Christian check list... That's why. It just makes me very sad because many people suffer for these misconceptions. All in the name of some "idea" of morality.

While the N.E. Journal of Medicine reports that men who smoke risk cutting 7.3 years off their lives we find the Oxford University's International Journal of Epidemiology reports: "Life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men.

Michigan's statewide "gay" newspaper, reports the risk of anal cancer "soars" by nearly 4,000% for men who have sex with men.

Advocate, a "national gay and lesbian news magazine, "concurs that "lesbians are at higher risk of breast, cervical, and ovarian cancer."

The Centers for Disease Control & Prevention Men who have sex with men "have large numbers of anonymous partners, which can result in rapid, extensive transmission of STDs," the CDC warns.

Men who engage in homosexual behaviour are 860% more likely to contract a sexually transmitted disease (STD), increasing up to 500% their risk of contracting HIV/AIDS.

CDC study "confirms that young bisexual men are a 'bridge' for HIV transmission to women."

Gay Health reports that men who have sex with men are 320% more likely than heterosexuals to have unprotected sex without telling their partners they're HIV-positive.

 

[SimplyMe]

While the N.E. Journal of Medicine reports that men who smoke risk cutting 7.3 years off their lives we find the Oxford University's International Journal of Epidemiology reports: "Life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men.

Michigan's statewide "gay" newspaper, reports the risk of anal cancer "soars" by nearly 4,000% for men who have sex with men.

Advocate, a "national gay and lesbian news magazine, "concurs that "lesbians are at higher risk of breast, cervical, and ovarian cancer."

The Centers for Disease Control & Prevention Men who have sex with men "have large numbers of anonymous partners, which can result in rapid, extensive transmission of STDs," the CDC warns.

Men who engage in homosexual behaviour are 860% more likely to contract a sexually transmitted disease (STD), increasing up to 500% their risk of contracting HIV/AIDS.

CDC study "confirms that young bisexual men are a 'bridge' for HIV transmission to women."

Gay Health reports that men who have sex with men are 320% more likely than heterosexuals to have unprotected sex without telling their partners they're HIV-positive.

Please provide links to these stats. Looking at two of the links you do have, on the Michigan "gay" newspaper I could not find the article you were referencing. As for the Gay Health article, it did not state what you are claiming. That these two links aren't what you are representing them to be makes your claims suspect.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Please provide links to these stats. Looking at two of the links you do have, on the Michigan "gay" newspaper I could not find the article you were referencing. As for the Gay Health article, it did not state what you are claiming. That these two links aren't what you are representing them to be makes your claims suspect.

Actually i just checked the links and the only one having problems is the michigan one , the others are just fine . Apparantly the michigan paper archived their paper and its not online anymore . Online papers archiving articles isnt anything sinister , i assure you . LOL

 

[Angel4Truth]

Gay and Bi Men Less Likely to Disclose They Have HIV
-- A significant number of gay and bisexual men with HIV do not disclose their serostatus to partners with whom they have unprotected [url="javascript:openBridge('record=38&table=GH_GLOSSARY')"]sex[/url], according to a study presented July 13 at the XIII International AIDS Conference.
Researchers from the University of California, San Francisco studied a nationwide sample of 1,397 HIV-infected men and women receiving medical treatment. The study was conducted from September to December of 1998. Around sixteen percent of gay and bisexual men reported having unprotected anal or vaginal sex at least once within the previous six months without disclosing their serostatus. By contrast, around five percent of heterosexual men and around six percent of heterosexual women reported unprotected anal or vaginal sex without disclosure during the same time period.

Thirty-six percent of those who reported unprotected oral, anal or vaginal sex did not disclose their serostatus to casual sex partners, compared to 13 percent of heterosexual men and around 9 percent of heterosexual women.

Do the math . http://www.gayhealth.com/templates/113463833350539810676/news?record=136&trycookie=1

 

[outlaw]

While the N.E. Journal of Medicine reports that men who smoke risk cutting 7.3 years off their lives we find the Oxford University's International Journal of Epidemiology reports: "Life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men.

This lie AGAIN?



How many times is it going to get repeated?





(note I am not saying Angel4truth has posted this particular lie multiple times but rather this particular lie has cropped up numerous times in the last few weeks.)



so once AGAIN:



Dr Robert S Hogg sent the following letter to the Editor of the Interational Journal of Epidemiology as a protest against the way certain Finnish and American religious fundamentalists distorted the findings of the Canadian reserach team headed by Dr. Hogg

* * * ​

Dear Dr. George Davey Smith:

Over the past several months I have received correspondence from a number of people regarding a paper I wrote with Mr. Craib and Drs. Montaner, O'Shaughnessy, Schechter, and Strathdee in the International Journal of Epidemiology on the gay and bisexual life expectancy in Vancouver in the late 1980s and early 1990s [1]. From this correspondence it appears that our research is being used by select groups in United States and other countries to suggest that gay and bisexual men live an unhealthy lifestyle that is destructive to themselves and to others. These homophobic groups appear more interested in restricting the human rights of gay and bisexuals rather than promoting their health and well being.

The aim of our research was never to spread more homophobia, but to demonstrate to an international audience how the life expectancy of gay and bisexual men can be estimated from limited vital statistics data.

In our paper, we demonstrated that in a major Canadian center, life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 21 years less than for all men. If the same pattern of mortality continued, we estimated that nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged 20 years would not reach their 65th birthday. Under even the most liberal assumptions, gay and bisexual men in this urban center were experiencing a life expectancy similar to that experienced by men in Canada in the year 1871.

In contrast, if we were to repeat this analysis today the life expectancy of gay and bisexual men would be greatly improved. Deaths from HIV infection have declined dramatically in this population since 1996. As we have previously reported there has been a three fold decrease in mortality in Vancouver as well as in other parts of British Columbia [2].

It is essential to note that the life expectancy of any population is a descriptive and not a prescriptive measure [3]. Death is a product of the way a person lives and what physical and environmental hazards he or she faces everyday. It cannot be attributed solely to their sexual orientation or any other ethnic or social factor. If estimates of an individual gay and bisexual man's risk of death is truly needed for legal or other purposes than persons making these estimates should use the same actuarial tables that are used for all other males in that population. Gay and bisexual men are included in the construction of official population-based tables and therefore these tables for all males are the appropriate ones to be used.

We recognize that the International Journal of Epidemiology does not publish letters to the editor. However, we would like to convey at least to you and the other journal staff that we do not condone the use of our research in this manner. We would hope that this message could be also conveyed to the subscribers of the journal. Copies of this letter will also be forwarded to individuals that have expressed concern about the way our work is being used to restrict the rights of gay and bisexuals.

Our aim here s to stop this improper use of our results.

If you require any additional information please do not hesitate to contact me or any of my co-authors about this matter.

Sincerely

ROBERT S. HOGG, PhD

STEFFANIE A. STRATHDEE, PhD

KEVIN J.P. CRAIB, MMath, PhD (cand.)

MICHAEL V. O'SHAUGHNESSY, PhD

JULIO MONTANER, MD, FRCPC, FCCP

MARTIN T. SCHECHTER, MD, PhD, FRCPC

BRITISH COLUMBIA CENTRE FOR EXCELLENCE IN HIV/AIDS, ST. PAUL'S HOSPITAL, UNIVERSITY OF BRITISH COLUMBIA, VANCOUVER, CANADA. AND DEPARTMENT OF EPIDEMIOLOGY, SCHOOL OF HYGIENE AND PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY

References cited

1. Hogg RS, Strathdee SA, Craib KJP, O'Shaughnessy MV, Montaner JSG, Schechter MT. Modelling the impact of HIV disease on mortality in gay men. International Journal of Epidemiology, 1997; 26 (3): 657-661.

2. Hogg RS, O'Shaughnessy MV, Gataric N, Yip B, Craib KJP, Schechter MT, Montaner JSG . Decline in deaths from AIDS due to new antiretrovirals. [L]. The Lancet, 1997; 349:1294.

3. Gray A, Hogg RS. Mortality of Aboriginal Australians in Western New South Wales 1984-1987. Sydney: New South Wales Department of Health. 1989, pp. 61.

Michigan's statewide "gay" newspaper, reports the risk of anal cancer "soars" by nearly 4,000% for men who have sex with men.

Michigan has a statewide gay newspaper?

Even if Michigan did why would what they print be acceptable as scientific evidence?



The 4000% sounds suspiciously like statistics made up by Paul Cameron.

Advocate, a "national gay and lesbian news magazine, "concurs that "lesbians are at higher risk of breast, cervical, and ovarian cancer."

not a workign link...not a link at all.

The Centers for Disease Control & Prevention Men who have sex with men "have large numbers of anonymous partners, which can result in rapid, extensive transmission of STDs," the CDC warns.

No link here…

Men who engage in homosexual behaviour are 860% more likely to contract a sexually transmitted disease (STD), increasing up to 500% their risk of contracting HIV/AIDS.

Pretty sure this is stuff made up by Paul Cameron, please link us so I can confirm/deny that suspicion.

CDC study "confirms that young bisexual men are a 'bridge' for HIV transmission to women."

not a working link

Gay Health reports that men who have sex with men are 320% more likely than heterosexuals to have unprotected sex without telling their partners they're HIV-positive.

not a working link

 

[outlaw]

Gay and Bi Men Less Likely to Disclose They Have HIV
-- A significant number of gay and bisexual men with HIV do not disclose their serostatus to partners with whom they have unprotected [url="http://javascript<img%20src=&quot;http://www3.christianforums.com/images/smilies/redface.gif&quot;%20border=&quot;0&quot;%20alt=&quot;&quot;%20title=&quot;what&quot;%20smilieid=&quot;29&quot;%20class=&quot;inlineimg&quot;%20/>penBridge('record=38&table=GH_GLOSSARY')"]sex[/url], according to a study presented July 13 at the XIII International AIDS Conference.

men in sub-Saharan Africa.

Researchers from the University of California, San Francisco studied a nationwide sample of 1,397 HIV-infected men and women receiving medical treatment. The study was conducted from September to December of 1998. Around sixteen percent of gay and bisexual men reported having unprotected anal or vaginal sex at least once within the previous six months without disclosing their serostatus. By contrast, around five percent of heterosexual men and around six percent of heterosexual women reported unprotected anal or vaginal sex without disclosure during the same time period.

Thirty-six percent of those who reported unprotected oral, anal or vaginal sex did not disclose their serostatus to casual sex partners, compared to 13 percent of heterosexual men and around 9 percent of heterosexual women.

Do the math . http://www.gayhealth.com/templates/113463833350539810676/news?record=136&trycookie=1

Math aside…what you are saying is that prejudice is all right as long as you can attach a disease to the minority you wish to discriminate against.



Since HIV/AIDS disproportionately affects blacks http://www.who.int/en/ racism must be an acceptable thing

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Outlaw,

It pure denial on your part. The authors of the stats did not want their statistcal conclusions used to make what they saw as an anti-gay point. Clearly the stats can be used as such. The problem with the stats was highlighted that the situation has changed and that the stats would be expected to be different now. Nonetheless the objection raises the possibility that the authors were potentially as pro-gay as they percieved Robert Hogg anti-gay.

The problem is people have agendas, and its isnt any good shouting hatred and prejudice at people with other opinion and agendas if it isnt going to change their mind.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Funny , all the links work just fine except the michigan one and the CDC stats all came from that one link , dont need separate links for each one , not going to argue , i even reposted the gay health link with article excerpts . Not doing it again to be personally attacked like i just was for clarifying a link. God bless

 

[Angel4Truth]

Unsure how posting stats about stds in reference to someone who stated that stds arent higher amoung homosexuals , can be referenced as hate , predjuduce , and result in ad hominem and personal attacks .

Seems to me those who participate in mud slinging are those who could be branded those names .

 

[SimplyMe]

Gay and Bi Men Less Likely to Disclose They Have HIV
-- A significant number of gay and bisexual men with HIV do not disclose their serostatus to partners with whom they have unprotected [url="http://javascript<img%20src=&quot;http://www3.christianforums.com/images/smilies/redface.gif&quot;%20border=&quot;0&quot;%20alt=&quot;&quot;%20title=&quot;what&quot;%20smilieid=&quot;29&quot;%20class=&quot;inlineimg&quot;%20/>penBridge('record=38&table=GH_GLOSSARY')"]sex[/url], according to a study presented July 13 at the XIII International AIDS Conference.
Researchers from the University of California, San Francisco studied a nationwide sample of 1,397 HIV-infected men and women receiving medical treatment. The study was conducted from September to December of 1998. Around sixteen percent of gay and bisexual men reported having unprotected anal or vaginal sex at least once within the previous six months without disclosing their serostatus. By contrast, around five percent of heterosexual men and around six percent of heterosexual women reported unprotected anal or vaginal sex without disclosure during the same time period.

Thirty-six percent of those who reported unprotected oral, anal or vaginal sex did not disclose their serostatus to casual sex partners, compared to 13 percent of heterosexual men and around 9 percent of heterosexual women.

Do the math . http://www.gayhealth.com/templates/113463833350539810676/news?record=136&trycookie=1

Do what math, multiply one percentage by another percentage, multiplied by the results of another formula where all the input are percentages? Sorry, you need the raw numbers for it to be meaningful as well as including all the facts, such as your forgetting to include, "Nondisclosure to steady partners, however, dropped to around five percent among gay and bisexual men, similar to rates found among heterosexuals with steady partners." That changes the numbers considerably and makes your 320% figure far too high.

Also of interest is that you're including results from both heterosexual men and women and yet only gay men. If you include lesbian women this would further even the statistics. This is why I'm stating that your claim is not what the article states.

I find it interesting as well that numbers, among those with steady partners are similar. Yet most Christians discourage gays from having steady partners.

Last, the larger point wasn't that the links didn't work, it's that most of your stats have no links.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Yes you are right , if you include lesbians , that would make the number of those gay with hiv not reporting it to partners EVEN HIGHER , thank you for pointing that out .

 

[ebia]

While the N.E. Journal of Medicine reports that men who smoke risk cutting 7.3 years off their lives we find the Oxford University's International Journal of Epidemiology reports: "Life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men.

Someone else has dealt with this.

http://www.pridesource.com/

Michigan's statewide "gay" newspaper, reports the risk of anal cancer "soars" by nearly 4,000% for men who have sex with men.

The link leads to a completely unrelated article.

Advocate, a "national gay and lesbian news magazine, "concurs that "lesbians are at higher risk of breast, cervical, and ovarian cancer."

No link given.

The Centers for Disease Control & Prevention Men who have sex with men "have large numbers of anonymous partners, which can result in rapid, extensive transmission of STDs," the CDC warns.

Men who engage in homosexual behaviour are 860% more likely to contract a sexually transmitted disease (STD), increasing up to 500% their risk of contracting HIV/AIDS.

No link given.

CDC study "confirms that young bisexual men are a 'bridge' for HIV transmission to women."

No link given.

Gay Health reports that men who have sex with men are 320% more likely than heterosexuals to have unprotected sex without telling their partners they're HIV-positive.

That is not what it says. It says that of those who did have casual unprotected sex while HIV positive, homosexual men were less likely to have told their partners. It also says: "Nondisclosure to steady partners, however, dropped to around five percent among gay and bisexual men, similar to rates found among heterosexuals with steady partners."
Evidence to support encouraging monogomous relationships amongst all.

So, only two of your pieces of evidence actually have links, one of those has been refuted by another poster and the other does not say what you claim it says.

Of course, all sex (even sex within marriage ) carries a health risk, so it would clearly be in the best interests of all to ban it entirely.

 

[ebia]

Unsure how posting stats about stds in reference to someone who stated that stds arent higher amoung homosexuals , can be referenced as hate , predjuduce , and result in ad hominem and personal attacks .

When your 'stats' aren't supported, or worse are a distortion of what the original statistics said, it doesn't look like a dispassionate examination of the evidence.

 

[Angel4Truth]

A series of studies done by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) shows that, in the United States at least, people are returning to risky behaviors that help spread the virus.

Linda Valleroy and colleagues did a five-year CDC study of 3,492 men in seven U.S. cities who have sex with men, and found one in six also had sex with women.

A quarter of those men, aged 15 to 22, said they recently had unprotected sex with both men and women, Valleroy's team told the 13th International AIDS Conference. She said nearly seven percent of the men in the study were HIV positive.

"The study confirms that young bisexual men are a 'bridge' for HIV transmission to women," the CDC said in a statement. CDC researchers said they were confirming studies that show a worrying rise in risky behavior among gay and bisexual men -- who are still the main victims of HIV in the United States.

http://ww2.aegis.org/news/re/2000/RE000738.html

 

[brightmorningstar]

The World AIDs day seems a pretty good source.

Lesbian (homosexual female)

Gay (homosexual male)

Bisexual Female

Bisexual Male

Heterosexual Female

Heterosexual Male

Transgender

Other



Other ????? That’s classic. Any ideas?

Durban, South Africa) -- A significant number of gay and bisexual men with HIV do not disclose their serostatus to partners with whom they have unprotected sex, according to a study presented July 13 at the XIII International AIDS Conference.

Why where is the trust? What sort of relationship is that? Whats wrong with them?

Around sixteen percent of gay and bisexual men reported having unprotected anal or vaginal sex at least once within the previous six months without disclosing their serostatus. By contrast, around five percent of heterosexual men and around six percent of heterosexual women reported unprotected anal or vaginal sex without disclosure during the same time period.

Why are homosexuals and bisexuals 3 times more likely to be taking risks than heterosexuals?

I put it to the forum that homsoexuals may be 3 times less suitable for adopting children and 3 times less suitable for civil partnerships.

 

[outlaw]

Unsure how posting stats about stds in reference to someone who stated that stds arent higher amoung homosexuals , can be referenced as hate , predjuduce , and result in ad hominem and personal attacks .

Seems to me those who participate in mud slinging are those who could be branded those names .

When your statistics are misleading or they misrepresent what the researcher said...

 

[outlaw]

A series of studies done by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) shows that, in the United States at least, people are returning to risky behaviors that help spread the virus.

Linda Valleroy and colleagues did a five-year CDC study of 3,492 men in seven U.S. cities who have sex with men, and found one in six also had sex with women.

A quarter of those men, aged 15 to 22, said they recently had unprotected sex with both men and women, Valleroy's team told the 13th International AIDS Conference. She said nearly seven percent of the men in the study were HIV positive.

"The study confirms that young bisexual men are a 'bridge' for HIV transmission to women," the CDC said in a statement. CDC researchers said they were confirming studies that show a worrying rise in risky behavior among gay and bisexual men -- who are still the main victims of HIV in the United States.

http://ww2.aegis.org/news/re/2000/RE000738.html

http://www.gaycitynews.com/gcn_334/thedownlowgoes.html

 

[ebia]

Around sixteen percent of gay and bisexual men reported having unprotected anal or vaginal sex at least once within the previous six months without disclosing their serostatus. By contrast, around five percent of heterosexual men and around six percent of heterosexual women reported unprotected anal or vaginal sex without disclosure during the same time period.

Why are homosexuals and bisexuals 3 times more likely to be taking risks than heterosexuals?

That is not what it said. It said OF THOSE TAKING THE RISK homosexuals were less likely to inform person they were having sex with. It is possible within those figures that hetrosexuals with HIV are the ones more likely to risk unprotected sex.

I put it to the forum that homsoexuals may be 3 times less suitable for adopting children and 3 times less suitable for civil partnerships.

That wouldn't even follow from what you said the figures said, let alone from what they really say. The second of those two is particularly absurd - it amounts to "homosexuals are more likely to have risky casual sex, so we should discourage them from doing otherwise".