Homosexuality from a christian point of veiw.

[outlaw]

There is only one God, and homosexual sex is outside of His will.

Yet it exists and God doesn’t seem terribly upset about it.

Not true.

true.



Marriage and the definition of marriage has changed from what it meant in biblical times and it will continue to do so.

Humanity is fallen from the state of perfection that God created. Perversion of that perfection exists, and homosexuality is one of those perversions. Don't get me wrong here. I'm not standing here screaming "Pervert" at you.

Well…yes you are doing just that.

Perversion is just a deviation from what something should have been. The perfect will of God is for a man and a woman to unite as one in marriage, and to have sex only in that union,

and yet the bible so clearly shows that concubines Levirate “marriages”, rape, polygamy are all part of “God’s will”.

and to have children from that sex, if it is His will that they have children. The existence of a perversion doesn't nulify God's instructions for the behavior of His creation. Homosexual sex is not permitted behavior

-

neither are many common place things….yet no one seems to have trouble about them

You certainly have the right to call your relationship whatever you want. Two men, nor two women will ever eqate the union of a man and a woman.

an opinion…not a fact.





The same has been said about marriages of people of different skin color, that such a union would never equal the union of a white man to a white woman.

As I said, call your relatioship whatever you want..

thus it is a marriage…whether you like it or not.

This is un-Biblical, but then you aren't a Christian. I will caution you about putting yourself on equal footing with God. He's God. You are a man.

and who are you exactly to deny that Spinto or anyone else for that matter has a personal relationship with God? Who are you to dictate the limits of that relationship?

it seems you need to heed your own caution.

If you were a Christian, then in a certain sense this would be true.

Again just who are you exactly to dictate the limits of anyone’s relationship with God?

The issue here is not love. I don't doubt that you love your homosexual partner. I don't doubt that he loves you. The issue is homosexual sex. It is a sin.

but then so is eating shrimp and wearing poly cotton blends and cutting your hair.

I'm not in the closet in any way, shape or form. I am a born-again Christian man who struggles against same-sex attraction. This is how I describe myself. Call me whatever you want.

so you are a gay Christian.

The only thing I truly hope for is to stand in front of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and hearing God say "Well done. I knew I could count on you. I know you have a lot of questions, but that can wait. Come on in and get some rest."

and when God says the same to Spinto…how will you feel?

Of course a marraige cannot be based on sex alone. Althought, it is a very important part of the bond between a husband and wife. I never at any time said that "gay equals sex". [/QUOTE]
you just did.

 

[sethad]

Uh yah he can...
Philippians 4:13
"I can do everything through him who gives me strength."

That includes picking and choosing which laws to obey.

I'm guessing that was sarcasm.

either way thats the most direct taking things out of context to justify anything I've ever seen lol

 

[outlaw]

MAJOR flaw in those empty claims - EVIDENCE.

And evidence was presented. Pretending it was not is just dishonest.

Centuries upon century of evidence against the "newly discovered" Gnosticism that is being attempted and somehow, everybody is suppose to turn a blind eye to it. Century upon century of a void backing up the Gnostic claim only coupled with itching ears wanting it to be true.

But while we are on the topic of evidence I see that you have (not surprisingly) failed to provide any evidence to back up your claims

 

[outlaw]

note that it says homosexual offenders in that first verse. not homosexuals. so it could mean homosexual offenders as in those guys who used to keep little boys as sex slaves.

as I already said...

if it said heterosexual offenders would everyone think being heterosexual was a sin?

As noted in post number 396

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=20620653&postcount=396



It is not “homosexual offenders” at all but rather appears to mean one who financially exploits others.

 

[Faith In God]

Yet [homosexual sex] exists and God doesn’t seem terribly upset about it.

You could say that about any sin.

if it said heterosexual offenders would everyone think being heterosexual was a sin?

Heterosexual offenders would constitute fornicators or those who are raptulous. That would mean that Jesus condemned that sin as well (hetersexual offenders) and the very people who are that way, because even wanting to do it constitutes the action, as far as God is concerned. Therefore, if the text says "homosexual offenders", then the homosexual is condemned, just as the heterosexual offenders. Lust (outside of wedlock (which God does not permit within genders)) of any sort is sin.

As for the post #396, some of the arguments were kind of invalid. You never specifically defined the word (which Wycliff did), and the suggestion you make has to do with the placement of the sin among lists of sins. I look up the word "homosexual" in a concordance, and there is one listing (I know there are more) to see if this test holds up, and found [Bible]1 Corinthians 6:9[/bible]

Placement doesn't appear to be too much of a problem.

 

[spinto]

For those who claim that homosexuality is morally acceptable because of some
inherited trait, surely we would not make the argument that obesity, violence, alcoholism and adultery are legitimate because they were also inherited traits.

So it is w/homosexuality, whether inborn or acquired it is still like all sexual contact apart from marriage, immoral and immoral behavior cannot be legitimized by government support.

Obesity harms the person who is obese. There are and should never be any laws against it. There should be help for these people. Violence hurts other people against their will. There are good laws against this. Alcoholism is a problem and danger for other people. We should continue to try and control this problem. Adultery is humiliating and degrating to a marriage. But laws against this would be incredably stupid because of the many many different kinds of relationship circumstances out there. Controling this would turn our country into a dictatorship.

Homosexuality is simply the attration to someone of the same sex. It hurts no one. Many of us are married in spite of the Government's insistence of not recognizing it. The fact that our government does not recognize it hurts the many familiys that are living amongst us. There are many couples who are raising happy well adjusted children in happy homes. These kids are wanted and provided for, but our government does not give these families the legal backing to protect the intrest of these children as a strong "legal" family unit. THAT IS IMMORAL.

You are drawing similarities with between homosexuality and other things that are ACTUAL crimes against health at best and violent crimes at worse. These things are not the same as homosexuality. Love and attractiong is not a crime. Raising a family between two people who love eachother is not crime. Living with the one you love and calling them your family is not a crime. It is a crime to not afford equality to those who march to a different drummer. But the beat is not that different.

 

[sethad]

go back and read butxifnot. already discussed that verse.

I'm very skeptical of the "homosexuality is a sin" bit. then again I'm skeptical of everything.

 

[Faith In God]

Obesity harms the person who is obese. There are and should never be any laws against it. There should be help for these people. Violence hurts other people against their will. There are good laws against this. Alcoholism is a problem and danger for other people. We should continue to try and control this problem. Adultery is humiliating and degrating to a marriage. But laws against this would be incredably stupid because of the many many different kinds of relationship circumstances out there. Controling this would turn our country into a dictatorship.

Homosexuality is simply the attration to someone of the same sex. It hurts no one. Many of us are married in spite of the Government's insistence of not recognizing it. The fact that our government does not recognize it hurts the many familiys that are living amongst us. There are many couples who are raising happy well adjusted children in happy homes. These kids are wanted and provided for, but our government does not give these families the legal backing to protect the intrest of these children as a strong "legal" family unit. THAT IS IMMORAL.

You are drawing similarities with between homosexuality and other things that are ACTUAL crimes against health at best and violent crimes at worse.

Are there diseases involved in homosexuality??

go back and read butxifnot. already discussed that verse.

Where? I was merely referring to the argument of outlaw. You can't conquer the world with one verse.

I'm very skeptical of the "homosexuality is a sin" bit. then again I'm skeptical of everything.

I'll pray for you.

 

[Caylin]

Pray that he starts to think homosexuality is a sin?

 

[Faith In God]

Pray that he starts to think homosexuality is a sin?

That wasn't very nice. I won't follow suit. Pray that some of his skepticism about "everything" eases.

 

[Caylin]

Oh. I was confused. I thought you were refering to the first part of the sentence. I'm sorry.

 

[Faith In God]

Oh. I was confused. I thought you were refering to the first part of the sentence. I'm sorry.

Okay. Makes me feel better. Sorry about the confusion.

 

[spinto]

Geeee, Thanks Outlaw! I really appreciate your words here. Couldn't say it better myself.

And Kgreg. To clear up, I was not speaking to you directly. I only quoted your words because it held the main idea that I wanted to respond to. And many Christians hold your views.. So, I wanted to repond to that.

Self loathing closeted gay guys are a big problem in our society IMO. It breeds very unhealthy people. But again I was not identifying you as one of those people. After your post, I went back and I saw that you did indeed identify yourself as a Born Again Christian who turned away from homosexulity. And you certainly owe it to yourself to pursue happiness in whatever form you see fit. I do wish you peace in that journey.

 

[ILoveJesusHChrist]

Look im going to end this all right now. Jesus, not one of his prophets, said that you should accept everyone for who they are, no questions asked. So it doesn't matter what ne1 else thinks. #2 say that gays are ok with him. #1 wasn't avalible for comment, but its good to assume that he sares the same view. **** you are a great brand of clothing

 

[Faith In God]

Look im going to end this all right now. Jesus, not one of his prophets, said that you should accept everyone for who they are, no questions asked.

Could you cite this for us?

I can cite some examples where Jesus told people to repent (change).

Sorry.

 

[ILoveJesusHChrist]

Eziekial 25:17 "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

 

[ILoveJesusHChrist]

Gays are the riteous men and people who hate them are the selfish and evil men

 

[sethad]

Gays are the riteous men and people who hate them are the selfish and evil men

I believe the Bible says that none are righteous.

If you want to make a case you have to use the whole Bible not just parts.

 

[ILoveJesusHChrist]

the problem is people confuse us gays with child molesters

 

[sethad]

the problem is people confuse us gays with child molesters

only the really ignorant people. not all people do.

there was a thread about that too at one point.