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Well technically it is an abomination Leviticus 20:13 but then eating shrimp is also an abomination Leviticus 11:10-12Kgreg said:It's a four part process that involves me and God:
1) I tell you the truth that homosexual acts are outside of God's will for His creation.
Ok lets say the homosexual you are trying to convert accepts the truth that eating shrimp is just plain wrong then what?2) The Holy Spirit moves on your heart to accept the truth.
3) Then you either accept it or reject it.
4) If you choose to accept, this is conversion to Christianity and you become a follower of Jesus, and strive to live your life within the instruction provided by our Father in His Word, which is quite clear on the matter of homosexual sex, inspite of what some want you, and me, to believe. With this conversion, is the promise of eternal life in the presence of God. [/qu] and what if the homosexual you are trying to convert is already a Christian?
Can you offer any evidence to support thee claim that sexual orientation changes?The OP poll doesn't say anything about conversion to heterosexuality. It happens to some, and not to others. For some it happens immediately, for others later, and for some never.
There are some testimonies for ex-gays but there are also testimonies form people who claim to have been abducted by aliens and subjected to medical torture aboard UFOs
outlaw said:Well technically it is an abomination Leviticus 20:13 but then eating shrimp is also an abomination Leviticus 11:10-12
Ok lets say the homosexual you are trying to convert accepts the truth that eating shrimp is just plain wrong then what?
and what if the homosexual you are trying to convert is already a Christian?
Can you offer any evidence to support thee claim that sexual orientation changes?
There are some testimonies for ex-gays but there are also testimonies form people who claim to have been abducted by aliens and subjected to medical torture aboard UFOs
ChristianCenturion said:And what does any of this have to do with a Christian point of view?
sethad said:It has to do with the fact that Christians say homosexuality is an abomination using the verse in Leviticus but Leviticus also says that eating shrimp is an abomination but most christians dont have a problem with eating shrimp.
Angel4Truth said:Have you read the previous posts ? Everyone has sinned and its been said in this thread , all guilty and that the law was given for the knowledge of sin . Unsure how this keeps being missed , but since people want to keep posting as if they didnt see all of that part , lets get technical about what you just posted since we are pretending the law is how we are judged today . (since that is what skeptics are doing , instead of debating contextually where we are all under a new covenant ).
Technical argument :
Leviticus 11:2 "Speak to the children of Israel, saying, `These are the animals which you may eat among all the beasts that are on the earth
1) Are you a child of Israel? Are Christians children of Israel? No , they are children of God through Christ . So technically your argument is not valid to the christian , only to those in the hebrew theocracy does this type of cleanliness law (eating laws) apply . However the law against homosexual sex is a law unto death , not a cleanliness law . We die because of the sins unto death , not the cleanliness sins , they carried a temporal effect .
Acts 10:13 And a voice came to him, "Rise, Peter; kill and eat.'' 15. And a voice spoke to him again the second time, "What God has cleansed you must not call common.'' <~~applies to all food except that which still contains blood , as its been reiterated under the new covenant that we arent to eat blood .
Acts 15:19 "Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20. "but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood.
2)They were to ensure cleanliness of body to those which whom the messiah would come from to ensure lineage . These laws also did not carry the penalty of death . The word translated abomination here means pollution. They did not have the cleanliness capabilities we have today either , and would basically poison their bodies with those things.
3)As you can see from above sexually immorality is reiterated in the new testament to apply to Christians and also the act of homosexual sex is specifically mentioned there as not ok with God too so we know its not been "cleansed" not to mention its always been a sin unto death .
Romans 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29. being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
30. backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31. undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32. who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
sethad said:It has to do with the fact that Christians say homosexuality is an abomination using the verse in Leviticus but Leviticus also says that eating shrimp is an abomination but most christians dont have a problem with eating shrimp.
outlaw said:I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-18
seebs said:I'm a little unclear on this. Can you help me understand exactly how I tell whether a given law is moral or ceremonial? Is this something where some chapters of Leviticus are moral, and some ceremonial? Is it specific topics, such as "sex"? If someone shows me a verse from Leviticus, what is the reasoning or procedure I would use to determine whether it is moral or ceremonial?
seebs said:I'm a little unclear on this. Can you help me understand exactly how I tell whether a given law is moral or ceremonial? Is this something where some chapters of Leviticus are moral, and some ceremonial? Is it specific topics, such as "sex"? If someone shows me a verse from Leviticus, what is the reasoning or procedure I would use to determine whether it is moral or ceremonial?
If it is inconvenient to follow like the law against wearing clothing made of mixed fabrics or the law against eating pork then you can claim it is part of ceremonial law and you can feel free to ignore it. If a law does not apply directly to you or helps you justify personal prejudice then it is moral law and you are free to use it to condemn others with it.seebs said:I'm a little unclear on this. Can you help me understand exactly how I tell whether a given law is moral or ceremonial? Is this something where some chapters of Leviticus are moral, and some ceremonial? Is it specific topics, such as "sex"? If someone shows me a verse from Leviticus, what is the reasoning or procedure I would use to determine whether it is moral or ceremonial?
outlaw said:Well technically it is an abomination Leviticus 20:13 but then eating shrimp is also an abomination Leviticus 11:10-12
And what's your point.
Ok lets say the homosexual you are trying to convert accepts the truth that eating shrimp is just plain wrong then what?
I never said anything about converting homosexuals into shrimp-eaters.
4) If you choose to accept, this is conversion to Christianity and you become a follower of Jesus, and strive to live your life within the instruction provided by our Father in His Word, which is quite clear on the matter of homosexual sex, inspite of what some want you, and me, to believe. With this conversion, is the promise of eternal life in the presence of God. [/qu] and what if the homosexual you are trying to convert is already a Christian?
Well, I guess someone else got to him before I did, right?
Can you offer any evidence to support thee claim that sexual orientation changes?
If a man whose sexually expression was totally in homosexual sex acts tells me that he no longer find the male body sexually arousing, then I have to believe him. So, I suggest you go to those men who claim to have had this sort of change occur in their lives and ask them for that evidence. I have not experienced this sort of change.
There are some testimonies for ex-gays but there are also testimonies form people who claim to have been abducted by aliens and subjected to medical torture aboard UFOs Again, what's your point?
Any other profound, intellectual comments you would like to make?
Kgreg said:outlaw said:Well technically it is an abomination Leviticus 20:13 but then eating shrimp is also an abomination Leviticus 11:10-12
And what's your point.
Ok lets say the homosexual you are trying to convert accepts the truth that eating shrimp is just plain wrong then what?
I never said anything about converting homosexuals into shrimp-eaters.
Any other profound, intellectual comments you would like to make?
I guess you didnt get the point? in one part of leviticus it says homosexuality is an abomination. in another it says that shrimp are an abomination. however most christians dont have a problem with shrimp. which means that they pick and choose which things are "abominations" to suit themselves.
sethad said:Kgreg said:I guess you didnt get the point? in one part of leviticus it says homosexuality is an abomination. in another it says that shrimp are an abomination. however most christians dont have a problem with shrimp. which means that they pick and choose which things are "abominations" to suit themselves.
Two points:
1) Christians are not under the law. We are under grace, and therefore, released from the law.
2) I'll find the Scripture for you later and cite it to keep the mods happy, but God said in the Book of Acts that He had cleaned all things and that we are to eat them. Therefore, there are no dietary restrictions for Christains, but the NT is also very clear on the point of homosexuallity still being outside of God's will for His people.
Kgreg said:And what's your point.
and why not? Eating shrimp is an abomination just as homosexuality? Why are you concerned about one sin and not another?I never said anything about converting homosexuals into shrimp-eaters.
If a man whose sexually expression was totally in homosexual sex acts tells me that he no longer find the male body sexually arousing, then I have to believe him. So, I suggest you go to those men who claim to have had this sort of change occur in their lives and ask them for that evidence. I have not experienced this sort of change.
Again, what's your point?
sethad said:Two points:
1) Christians are not under the law. We are under grace, and therefore, released from the law.
2) I'll find the Scripture for you later and cite it to keep the mods happy, but God said in the Book of Acts that He had cleaned all things and that we are to eat them. Therefore, there are no dietary restrictions for Christains, but the NT is also very clear on the point of homosexuallity still being outside of God's will for His people.
sethad said:I guess you didnt get the point? in one part of leviticus it says homosexuality is an abomination. in another it says that shrimp are an abomination. however most christians dont have a problem with shrimp. which means that they pick and choose which things are "abominations" to suit themselves.
ChristianCenturion said:The attempt to use one's own real or feigned ignorance to prove an assertion?That would be called Argument of Ignorance or simple denial.
I'm disappointed that my efforts to answer the question were in vain and the real motive behind the asking was merely to misrepresent someone else's religion by making hostile assertions without so much as substance behind it.
Now, to get BACK to the OP: ... Christian point of view.
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