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"FIFTHHomosexuality is unnatural. It is a menace to society. It has not only become an accepted lifestyle but threatens the health of many. Homosexuals have come out of their closets and are becoming a political power. Furthermore, they have invaded many religious institutions, claiming there is no Scripture that says homosexuality is a sin. Thus, homosexuals and many religionists alike are blind to Biblical history and Scriptural instruction. Apart from a spiritually circumcised ear, all Scriptural teaching on the subject will be like the seed that was sown by the way side (hodon, accusative of hodos, which means a way or road) (Matt. 13:19).
Among the unrighteous people who shall not inherit the kingdom of God, the inspired apostle mentioned fornicators (plural of pornos, a fornicator), idolaters (plural of eidololatres, an idolater or worshipper of idols), adulterers (plural of moichos, an adulterous person), effeminate (plural of malakos, a male who submits his body to unnatural lust), and abusers of themselves with mankind (plural of arsenokoites, one who lies with a male as a female) (I Cor. 6:9). The Greek word arsenokoites is used here and in I Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind.... This Greek word is a compound word composed of arsen, which means male, and koite, which means a bed. Hence, the reference is to male homosexuals. Although the Greek word arsenokoites is not used in Romans 1:26-27, homosexuals of both sexes are described: For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Homosexuality is not new, but its acceptance by heterosexuals as another lifestyle is new. How can that which is unnatural become an accepted lifestyle with so many? It could not apart from a corrupted society. One must understand that Christians constitute a little flock (Luke 12:32) in a world system that is dominated by the spirit of the age: AND you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others (Eph. 2:1-3). There was a time when sodomites were restricted to certain places. For example, the Sodom of history was known for its ones set apart for unholy purposes (Gen. 19). However, in todays society, homosexuals are unrestricted. Modern-day Sodom has enlarged her borders. Christians, like Abraham of old, see by faith that this amoral society is under the judgment of God.
Homosexuality was not only exposed but punished in the Old Testament: Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is abomination
(Lev. 18:22). If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them (Lev. 20:13). (See Deut. 23:17, 18; Judges 19:22-24; I Kings 14:24; 15:12; 22:46; Is. 3:9.)
The revelation of Gods wrath against sin, which includes homosexuality, is described by Paul in Romans 1:18-3:20. Gods wrath is the counterpart of His righteousness. It is not a passion but a principle. His wrath is the reaction of holy love in the presence of sin. To the nature of God, wrath against sin is as natural as love for holiness. As God cannot be holy without being jealous for His holiness, He cannot be holy without manifesting His wrath against sin. Therefore, God gave sinners over to their evil passions as punishment for their sins.
Concerning sinners, three references to God gave them over are recorded in the first chapter of Romans (vv. 24, 26, 28). The Greek word for gave them over is an aorist active indicative of paradidomi, which means to give over into the power of another or to abandon one to his own sinful lusts for the manifestation of the depths of human depravity. Each of the times Paul said that God gave them over must be viewed in the light of what preceded Gods abandonment.
The ones abandoned by God in verse 24 were those who held down truth (v. 18), ignored general revelation (vv. 19, 20), devaluated God (v. 21), professed superior wisdom (v. 22), and exchanged Gods glory for man-made idols (v. 23):
1. Holding down truth in unrighteousness is a heinous crime. The Greek participle, katechonton (present active participle of katecho, which means to hold down, to suppress, or to hold fast), denotes continuous action. The truth which wicked men suppress can be either general revelation (Rom. 1:19, 20) or a human understanding of special revelation (Rom. 1:16, 17). Apart from grace, any truth is held down in unrighteousness.
2. General revelation is inadequate for salvation, but it is competent to render every person defenseless before God.
3. Although all men have some knowledge about God, that knowledge is devaluated in preference to their own imaginations, because their hearts have been darkened by sin.
4. They profess to have superior wisdom, but they become fools.
5. They exchange (aorist active indicative of allasso, which means to change or to exchange one thing for another) Gods glory for human idols. Gods glory cannot be changed, but it can be exchanged.
God gives men over to uncleanness: Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, that their bodies might be dishonored among them (Rom. 1:24 NASB). The word Therefore (dio) indicates that the divine retribution finds its ground in the antecedent sin and is just infliction (vv. 18-23). God withdrew all restraint and left them to their own self-destruction. Because He positively withdrew His restraint, God was not purely passive. God punishes sin by giving people over to more sins. One of the Old Testament words for punishment is sin. Cain said, ...My punishment [sin] is greater than I can bear (Gen. 4:13).
Verses 25 and 26 record another division of mans sin and Gods judgment. The Greek word for exchange occurs for the second time: For they exchanged [aorist active indicative of metallasso, which means to exchange] the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen (Rom. 1:25 NASB). Exchanging a pure spring of water for a poisonous pond would be madness, but that is what the sinner does when he exchanges truth for a lie. Furthermore, apart from understanding the depravity of man, exchanging the Creator for the creature would seem insane. This is what every person does apart from grace. He chooses the residence of false gods in place of the eternal God. For this reason God abandoned (aorist active indicative of paradidomi) those thus described. Gods abandonment was judgment for apostasy from the knowledge they possessed.
Gods judgment, resulting from the sin described in verse 25, is declared in verse 26: For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural (NASB). An examination of the Greek text on this verse is important. Paul did not use the ordinary word for woman (gune) but the word for female (thelus, a female). Modesty, womans most beautiful adornment (I Tim. 2:9), was absent from the females that God gave over to degrading passions. Hence, the women exchanged natural relations with men in marriage for unnatural ones with other women.
Male homosexuality is clearly described in Romans 1:27 ...and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error (NASB). As grievous as fornication and adultery are, the desecration involved in homosexuality is the lowest plane of degeneracy in sexual sins. The word burned (aorist passive indicative of ekkaio, which means to blaze out or to be inflamed) cannot be equated with burn (present passive infinitive of puroo, which means to burn) in I Corinthians 7:9. The latter is the burning of a natural sex impulse which is not immoral in the marriage relationship, but the burning of man for man is unnatural. The Greek word for unseemly in the KJB is aschemosune, which means infamous lust or lewdness. Furthermore, the Greek word for men is the plural for arsen, which means a male. Thus, the words for males and females, rather than for men and women, are used because of their beastly, unnatural sins.
Homosexuals insist that Romans 1:26-27 teaches that they are not wrong to engage in sexual relations with the same sex because it is their nature. On the other hand, they claim that heterosexuals are perverse to engage in homosexual acts because they are contrary to their nature. Such reasoning is the fruit of Gods giving them over to uncleanness (v. 24) and vile affections (v. 26). Paul concluded that Gods judicial abandonment was not restricted to immoral living but to giving up men to a reprobate mind (Rom. 1:28). This is the third reference to God who gave them over (aorist active indicative of paradidomi). Since the homosexuals did not (ouk) approve (edokimasan, aorist active indicative of dokimadzo, which means to approve; but with the negative ouk, it means they did not approve of God) of having God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a mind void of moral discernment (eis adokimon noun). The adjective adokimos means unable to stand the test or worthless. Hence, the minds of homosexuals are worthless. When they refused to approve God, God gave them over to degenerate thinking. Therefore, when men do those things which are not proper, we know what a worthless mind entails.
Sin is its own punishment in time. Its effects are impaired health, seared conscience, blunted sensibilities, incapacity to appreciate natural affections, and lack of appreciation for the true and good.
Although all homosexuals disapprove of the true God and the true God pronounces them worthless, God does save some. Following the list of sinful persons who shall not inherit the kingdom, Paul said to the Corinthian Christians, And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God (I Cor. 6:11). Among the some of you were the homosexuals (plural of arsenokoites, the compound word made up of arsen, which means male, and koite, which means a bed) (I Cor. 6:9). There is one thing for sure: when a homosexual is saved, he does not remain a homosexual. He is not saved in but from his sin of homosexuality.
How can that which is unnatural become an accepted lifestyle with so many?
brightmorningstar said:One doesnt have to support ones friends in everything they do if one doesnt agree with some of the things they do. If my good friends went and robbed a bank I wouldnt go along with them just so I could be considered their best friends, I would visit it them in prison though.
brightmorningstar said:To Simplyme
Do you think so? I dont see that implied. No that woud be adultery just as it would if I slept with my homosexual friends.
The conversation continues to be somewhat dysfunctional.
I noted that arab said his friends were good friends and outlaw subsequently asked if they were good friends. and Do you celebrate their marriages?
I think it's more along the lines of love is natural; parents provide it to children. Even if you set out a systematic way of raising kids, like following a process of school of thought in child rearing.Ledifni said:Yes, I've often wondered the same thing myself. Why do we live in unnatural structures, wear unnatural fabrics, eat unnatural foods, deny our natural instincts, adhere to unnatural morals, create unnatural societies, and so on? After much deep thought on the subject, I've come to the conclusion that it's because nature isn't always sufficient. To reach our greatest potential, it's necessary to go beyond nature sometimes, you see. For example, you and I could never be having this discussion if we didn't both own unnatural computers.
But I guess you don't think you should to go Hell for having an unnatural computer, do you?
As is love between persons of the same gender.Montalban said:I think it's more along the lines of love is natural;
As gay parents provide love to their children.parents provide it to children. Even if you set out a systematic way of raising kids, like following a process of school of thought in child rearing.
WHO is talking about abandoning children?We can 'overcome' these things and just abandon our children, but we don't.
but that IS your argument.Likewise the 'natural' state of things must be a man and a woman, in order to procreate (though I'm not arguing either that this is all there is in such a relationship). Thus a 'natural' outcome of this union is a child. A man and another man won't lead to anything.
Galilean said:How long will it be before
those who are not homosexual or bisexual are considered homophobes?
I am reminded of white supremacists suggesting that they need to hide the white womenOr how long before every couple out there is gay/lesbian (interracial of course) with adopted children, when everyone decides 'why should we neccessarily sustain ourselves? nature is insufficient'.
Try going to the library (I know a shocking and disturbing suggestion .) and doing some research on the history of fashion. You will find that for most of human history men wore what can only be considered dresses.I'm trying to figure out which will come first: that or the time when people who don't marry someone of another race are considered bigots, and people who aren't mixed race will be considered the product of hateful parents (exception to the rule if you aren't white, we all know only white people are evil bigots). Maybe they'll both happen around the same time, along with full cross dressing being the norm with both sexes.
Montalban said:That was never God's message.
When Jesus intervened at the stoning of the adulterer, He turned to her and said "Go, and sin no more!"
He didn't say "Go, keep on doing it."
Oh dear, we're all going to hell.Just Me Garry said:Well the original post was made by someone totally oblivious to what the Word Of God says.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
For those who talk and talk and talk and never get to the point (unless you repent, you will likewise perish kind of thing), you've got it. That's why I like adding the fact that gays are sinners, yes, like liars.wblastyn said:Oh dear, we're all going to hell.
That's a better way of saying it that my posts!Galilean said:people love other people of the same gender and that is fine.
When they are freinds, when they are father and son, mother and daughter,
sisters and brothers.
men love boys and that is fine.
When the boy is their son, their brother, their nephew, etc.
But to suggest 'love' in these circumstances in a sexual manner, is an entirely different matter.
Galilean said:people love other people of the same gender and that is fine.
When they are freinds, when they are father and son, mother and daughter,
sisters and brothers.
men love boys and that is fine.
When the boy is their son, their brother, their nephew, etc.
But to suggest 'love' in these circumstances in a sexual manner, is an entirely different matter.
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