Homosexuality - A Challenge

Originally posted by fragmentsofdreams
We could do this, but this probably isn't the right place. blondofborg specifically expressed his desire to discuss a secular prohibition of homosexual acts. The thread in General Apologetics probably would be more suitable.

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Already been done, too many times, and you cannot show anyone with any glimmer of certainty that gay acts are acceptable to God.

Originally posted by GTX
Yeah, when it comes to sexual immorality, he has not once ever conceded or admitted that he might be wrong. Don't confuse open mindedness with misinterpretation.

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Seebs has repeatedly stated that he is uncertain whether homosexual acts are prohibited by the Bible. He is the first one to admit that he might be wrong.

Originally posted by GTX
Man you guys are out for blood, I can't believe how viscous a few gays can become over such a petty and meaningless discussion that ultimately goes no where.

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No one is being vicious and I don't see a 'few gays' here. As far as I know, I'm the only one in the thread even CLOSE to being gay.

Now you guys are making me chuckle, neither of you can show me where in the bible that gay acts are condoned.

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So? Something doesn't need to be condoned to not be evil.

If you want to debate homosexuality in terms of the bible, there are dozens of topics here. This topic is really about non-biblical reasons for gay hatred.

The bible says nothing against homosexuality, the attraction between two people of the same sex. The bible says nothing against loving a member of the same sex as a man loves a woman.

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Do you want all of them PMed to you? Sex and love come in different flavors.

Originally posted by fragmentsofdreams
Seebs has repeatedly stated that he is uncertain whether homosexual acts are prohibited by the Bible. He is the first one to admit that he might be wrong.

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Not when talking to me.

Originally posted by GTX
Do you want all of them PMed to you? Sex and love come in different flavors.

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*sigh*
Sure, send me any bible quotes you can find that condemn me having feelings for another man.

Sexual feelings? Or acting on those sexual feelings?

Originally posted by GTX
Not when talking to me.

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Seebs is probably one of the most open minded persons here.

And I really hope you don't consider yourself or your attempts at seeming tolerant while spouting bigotry as being 'open minded'.

Originally posted by GTX
Sexual feelings?

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Anything that clearly show it's wrong to love and having emotional feelings for a man the way a man loves a woman.

Lust and sex quotes, no.

Look, go be gay and have a wonderful evening. I am not going to argue with people who misconstrue my intentions.

**EDITED** I edited this because of my reference to flamers, my intentions were not to call gay people flamers, but to insinuate that I was being flamed into an argument.

Originally posted by GTX
Look, go be gay and have a wonderful evening.

I am not going to argue with flamers.

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That was totally uncalled for.
You seem to read my posts as being hostile, is thsi because you are threatened by anyone that doesn't share your view of God and homosexuality?

Originally posted by GTX
Look, go be gay and have a wonderful evening.

I am not going to argue with flamers.

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I would appreciate if you do not use derogatory terms here. As Christians, we are called to treat everyone with dignity regardless of how we feel about them.

Did anyone else notice that everyone on this page has 777 in their blessing count?
Maybe it's a sign.

Originally posted by GTX
Already been done, too many times, and you cannot show anyone with any glimmer of certainty that gay acts are acceptable to God.

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Er. I have a glimmer of certainty - I just don't think in certainties, because God has been careful to remind me that history is littered with people who performed atrocities in His name, because they were *certain*.

I can say that I have prayed many times for guidance on this issue, and that the responses have been amazing, and nearly brought me to tears - and I'm not a crying sort. The truth and power of God's message to me on this issue have been amazing; I am not the kind of guy to stick with debates like this, except that every time I'm about to quit, He reminds me that this one's important, and strengthens me.

I can find you long articles arguing that it is morally right to beat women, children, and slaves, in all cases to anything short of permanent injury. They were written by people who were *certain*. I can find you articles arguing that the very concept of marriage precludes any claim of rape - argued from the Bible, and argued by people who are *certain*.

And I can show you people who condemned a guy for being soft on sin, because they were *certain* that He was violating God's Will. They got a bit of a lecture for it, I'm afraid.

Certainty? Not much. Confidence? Faith? Those, I have. It has been too long that, in our zeal to find something to condemn, we have twisted God's words to apply to something new whenever we forget the practices He condemned. It's about time we stopped.

A rational reader, who had never heard of "homosexuality", who was studying the Bible for a stance on cult prostitution, would claim as part of his case every alleged condemnation of homosexuality; each of them fits perfectly into the Bible's overall picture of consistent focus on this issue, as a perversion above others. What seems to the anti-gay activist to be a strange omission of discussion of women is no challenge at all for the guy who is studying *male* cult prostitution - a practice for which the Hebrews had a word, and which was consistently condemned throughout the Old Testament in many, many, places. There are two passages which are claimed to be about homosexuality; there are dozens on cult prostitution, and the alleged homosexuality references fit in just fine.

Ahh, you say, but God wouldn't let us be wrong on this. I offer you the split between the Northern and Southern baptist churches, a mere hundred and fifty years ago, in which teams of learned theologians claimed that it was perfectly reasonable to kidnap people, beat them savagely, and force them to breed according to your own plans, because they were just *property*, even if they were devout Christians.

God would, indeed, let you be wrong, if you had your heart set on it. If you were shouting so loud that you couldn't hear His still, small, voice calling to you.

What does He do in the face of such injustice? The same thing He did last time - find a few isolated people who are rejected by the bulk of Christians as crazy, unreliable, and twisting the sense of Scripture, fill them with the Holy Spirit, and turn them loose. Many people thought the Quakers were *crazy*, for their abolitionist stance. People were beaten to a pulp for decrying slavery. And yet, they *kept saying it*. Mostly calmly and politely. And every so often, when someone stopped yelling at them to listen, he heard God's voice calling him, and he turned to his friends and said "No, wait, there's a problem here. Ships full of people dying from exposure to their own excrement... that's not part of God's plan. We have to stop this."

This has happened before, more than once, and every time, people cling to their man-made teachings and interpretations, preserving against any force their belief that they have found a group of people God says it's okay to treat like that.

There's always stuff about how it's "done in love", but you get the same thing from abusive spouses; "I'm not trying to hurt her self-esteem, I'm just telling her the truth, so she can recognize her problems and work on them."

So... No, I'm not certain. God didn't make me because He needed more people to be certain. He made me because skepticism is an uncommon sharp sword, and He needed one.

Originally posted by Annabel Lee
Did anyone else notice that everyone on this page has 777 in their blessing count?
Maybe it's a sign.

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Did you do that?

Originally posted by fragmentsofdreams
I would appreciate if you do not use derogatory terms here. As Christians, we are called to treat everyone with dignity regardless of how we feel about them.

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Are you a mod now? If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Originally posted by stray bullet
That was totally uncalled for.
You seem to read my posts as being hostile, is thsi because you are threatened by anyone that doesn't share your view of God and homosexuality?

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I can't help it you cannot hold a conversation without misconstruing everything I said.

You are hostile, you are a flamer, you have flamed everything I said, even when I offered you a huggie.

Originally posted by GTX
Are you a mod now? If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.

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One doesn't have to be a mod to ask someone to follow a rule which is not only one of the forum rules we all agreed to, but fairly thoroughly discussed in the Bible as well.

seebs, nice post, but we are not to be uncertain about what God said.

Besides, lets let the thread author have his bibleless thread.

Originally posted by seebs
One doesn't have to be a mod to ask someone to follow a rule which is not only one of the forum rules we all agreed to, but fairly thoroughly discussed in the Bible as well.

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I know the rules I have been here well over a year thank you.

In fact, I helped write those rules.

Besides I was being flamed. They called me a bigot, when in reality I was sympathising with them. By 'gay' I meant 'go be happy'.

See how people jump to conclusions?