Homan, AOC clash over webinar to help immigrants 'evade' ICE raids: 'I thought I educated her'

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Now that being in the full light of day, why do you think our nation can afford even 10,000 immigrants from other countries? To feed, to house, to provide medical care to and give jobs to - when our own citizens don't have employment, prosperity, or hope for a future that isn't scratching in the dirt.

We are spending money like water and bankrupting the country. We cannot afford to turn a blind eye anymore.

Trump isn't the bad guy....we should start making sure Americans have a future.

That was one of the reasons Trump won. The last 4 years almost destroyed the US. America FIRST.

 

[rjs330]

AOC shares tips on how illegal immigrants can evade ICE: ‘Do not open your door’

“Do Not Open Your Door,” reads one of the tips in the “AOC”-branded “Know Your Rights in Case of ICE” guide.

nypost.com

Yes, they do not have to open their door. That's how the Justice System works. When the police knock on your door, you are not required to answer it or open the door. If they want in, then they can get a warrant. I'm okay with that. Telling people their rights is not wrong and not a violation of any law nor is it obstructing.

Honestly I don't understand how supporters of the Constitution would say that telling people about their Constitutional Rights is wrong. That makes no sense. And I can't stand.AOC. But she's not wrong here. Unless ICE has some special rights I don't know about and they can operate outside the Constitutional boundaries that other LE agencies have to abide by.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Treason, the crime of betraying a nation or a sovereign by acts considered dangerous to security. Hmmm...

 

[rambot]

Treason, the crime of betraying a nation or a sovereign by acts considered dangerous to security. Hmmm...

They would have said the same thing about my great aunt who shuttled Jewish babies around Amsterdam on her bike as a nurse.

Now, it's what they would say about church organization that leave food and water caches in the dessert for illegal immigrants coming over the border.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

They would have said the same thing about my great aunt who shuttled Jewish babies around Amsterdam on her bike as a nurse.

Now, it's what they would say about church organization that leave food and water caches in the dessert for illegal immigrants coming over the border.

That is not the same thing...but you already knew that. Who are "they"? We are talking about a US congress person IN the US. Some of these people are criminals (other than just being in the US illegally) she is warning.

 

[rambot]

That is not the same thing...but you already knew that. Who are "they"? We are talking about a US congress person IN the US. Some of these people are criminals (other than just being in the US illegally) she is warning.

Given that there are already a LOT of dangerous people in the US, why is it important to increase the distrust of these illegal immigrants?

 

[A2SG]

Given that there are already a LOT of dangerous people in the US, why is it important to increase the distrust of these illegal immigrants?

Because someone needs to be the boogeyman.

-- A2SG, and drag queens who read children's books has played out....for now....

 

[RocksInMyHead]

That is not the same thing...but you already knew that. Who are "they"? We are talking about a US congress person IN the US. Some of these people are criminals (other than just being in the US illegally) she is warning.

And I'm sure that some of the Jews who were smuggled out of Germany were criminals as well (outside of simply being Jewish).

People in the US, regardless of their immigration status, have rights, and there is no crime in making sure that they know those rights. If a lawyer tells a murder suspect not to talk to police or open his door to the authorities without being shown a warrant, is that treason?

 

[Always in His Presence]

Honestly I don't understand how supporters of the Constitution would say that telling people about their Constitutional Rights is wrong.

Our constitutional rights are for legal immigrants and citizens - not illegal aliens.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Our constitutional rights are for legal immigrants and citizens - not illegal aliens.

Incorrect. Our constitutional rights are for all persons present in the country, regardless of immigration status.

 

[FenderTL5]

I just caught this and I honestly wanted to respond.

If you realize that there are likely a great many people only a paycheck away from bankruptcy in America, (so many in fact, that you're certain that you are talking to at least one financially despondent person in any random online conversation to be found) plus you're fully cognizant they have no safety net for their own future and are literally only a paycheck away from the park bench.

These are the things expressed in the post as being common in society and fully understood by all sides.

Now that being in the full light of day, why do you think our nation can afford even 10,000 immigrants from other countries? To feed, to house, to provide medical care to and give jobs to - when our own citizens don't have employment, prosperity, or hope for a future that isn't scratching in the dirt.

IMHO -
Yes we can - or rather - we could/should be able to do so.
We live in the richest, most prosperous nation on earth. Yet the overwhelming challenge is that the vast majority of that wealth is concentrated in the hands of very, very few.
Our nation was born and raised with open borders for immigrants. There was no such thing as illegal immigration in the US until the 1920s, with the exception of the Chinese in the late 1890s (where it began).

We are spending money like water and bankrupting the country. We cannot afford to turn a blind eye anymore.

Trump isn't the bad guy....we should start making sure Americans have a future.

GOP/Trump policies only exacerbate this problem. The policies are most definitely the bad guy.
I'm not optimistic of any real positive change anytime soon ymmv

 

[Always in His Presence]

Incorrect. Our constitutional rights are for all persons present in the country, regardless of immigration status.

incorrect - Those here illegally have no rights

 

[RocksInMyHead]

incorrect - Those here illegally have no rights

The Supreme Court disagrees. See Plyler v. Doe (1982) and Zadvydas v. Davis (2001)

People here illegally do not have all the same rights as citizens (obviously - they can't vote in federal elections or receive welfare payments, to name a couple easy ones), but they are entitled to due process.

5th Amendment: "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

6th Amendment: "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence."

14th Amendment: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

 

[FenderTL5]

..no State shall "deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." Whatever his status under the immigration laws, an alien is a "person" in any ordinary sense of that term. This Court's prior cases recognizing that illegal aliens are "persons" protected by the Due Process Clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments, which Clauses do not include the phrase "within its jurisdiction," cannot be distinguished on the asserted ground that persons who have entered the country illegally are not "within the jurisdiction" of a State even if they are present within its boundaries and subject to its laws. Nor do the logic and history of the Fourteenth Amendment support such a construction. Instead, use of the phrase "within its jurisdiction" confirms the understanding that the Fourteenth Amendment's protection extends to anyone, citizen or stranger, who is subject to the laws of a State, and reaches into every corner of a State's territory.
Plyler v. Doe, 457 U.S. 202, 215 (1982) US Supreme Court

the Supreme Court extended constitutional protections to all aliens within the United States, including those who entered unlawfully, declaring that aliens who have once passed through our gates, even illegally, may be expelled only after proceedings conforming to traditional standards of fairness encompassed in due process of law.

linkage

That doesn't mean this can't be overtuned in the future - but as of today - illegal aliens are "persons" protected by the Due Process Clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments

 

[Always in His Presence]

People here illegally do not have all the same rights as citizens (obviously - they can't vote in federal elections or receive welfare payments, to name a couple easy ones), but they are entitled to due process.

Thank you for confirming.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Thank you for confirming.

"They don't have all of the same rights" is not the same thing as "they have no rights". Please do not misquote me or misrepresent what I have said.

 

[Always in His Presence]

"They don't have all of the same rights" is not the same thing as "they have no rights". Please do not misquote me or misrepresent what I have said.

Then you should initially be clear of what rights you are referring to.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Then you should initially be clear of what rights you are referring to.

The rights that I was referring to were clear - this conversation started with AOC sharing the due process rights that illegal immigrants are entitled to and you claiming that those rights were only for citizens and legal immigrants.

Then you doubled down and said that illegal immigrants were entitled to no rights whatsoever, which is completely untrue.

 

[rjs330]

Our constitutional rights are for legal immigrants and citizens - not illegal aliens.

That's incorrect. Every person in the US is subject to the rights and requirements of the Constitution. You don't lose your rights being an illegal. Some may argue that you should have no rights being an illegal, but right now, illegals have the same rights of protection afforded everyone else regarding search and seizure.

 

[Pommer]

incorrect - Those here illegally have no rights

Source?