Holy Ghost Manifestations

[Christina M]

That book is increadably harsh with the whole charismatic movement, and paints all of us with the same brush.

Truthful words, AA. Dear ol' Hanky and his book have done more harm to more churches, all in the name of judmentalism and FEAR.

In my younger, more daring days, I would turn the book backwards whenever I would see it in a store so people would not be tempted to buy it!

 

[Christina M]

Just be carefull and don't judge other christians by the way that the holy spirit inspires them. God is perfect and He alone can fill us with his spirit

Good point, Keith. I used to judge many by these outward appearances/displays ....thought they were fake. But then they happened to me! Once you have tasted, you cannot deny!

 

[BillynJennifer]

Jim M, you are right. Spiritual pride is something that is faced more so in the Charismatic/Pentecostal church than anything else. Not only is it prevalent in those that feel superior because of their super-spirituality, but the preachers of some churches get so puffed up in their own spiritual pride that they kill their own congregations.

I've known people that base the problems in their lives by how long it's been since they've been "slain in the Spirit", or some other such nonsense. It's always those that try to outdo the others that make a bad taste in people's mouth.

 

[probinson]

They're just signs saying that God is here. Angels are here. I don't know where the "glory dust" comes from, but it's God. Someone I know had so much of it one time, they put it in a bag and took it to a lab to be examined. They found out that it is real 100% gold.

Before I respond to this post, let me just say that I believe in manifestations of the Spirit. I've been drunk in the Spirit myself, laughing uncotrollably, needed someone to take me and my wife home after church because neither one of us could drive.

But this gold dust has got me confused. Why would God give us specs of his pavement? After all, the Bible says that the streets of heaven are paved with gold. So clearly, God doesn't hold gold with the same value that we do. That would be like me saying, here, take this ground up asphalt. I just don't get the whole gold dust thing.

Let me also say that when I've experienced manifestations of the Spirit, almost immediately, the next day usually, I've experienced some major breakthrough in my life. In other words, the manifestation of the Spirit was simply a precursor to seeing God work mightily on my behalf. I've seen quite a few people who will leave a service with what would appear to be a major manifestation of the Spirit, and the next day, they're back to the same old, same old. I would think that those people probably were in the flesh.

But my last point is, WHO CARES? Even if someone is laughing like a maniac or stumbling around like a drunk and they're "in the flesh", who does it hurt? My pastor has always said, wild fire is better than no fire, and besides, there are enough wet blankets to put it out anyway.

Anyway, just some of my thoughts on this.

 

[BillynJennifer]

I've been in a service where gold dust appeared, but it only appeared on the minister. The minister also had oil come from her hands while preaching. I don't really understand either of these, for as you said, why would God sprinkle us with pavement? This same minister also, while I watched, had blood appear in her hands, feet, forehead, etc. Now, I'm not saying that stigmata is something I believe in, but I saw it with my own eyes.

 

[PlumTea]

But my last point is, WHO CARES? Even if someone is laughing like a maniac or stumbling around like a drunk and they're "in the flesh", who does it hurt? My pastor has always said, wild fire is better than no fire, and besides, there are enough wet blankets to put it out anyway.

If they are "in the flesh" that means they are just doing whatever all on their own, correct? I would think the harm would be in the falseness of it. Aren't they claiming to have something they don't? Or they really believe they have something from God, but failed to realize the source of their gift is from elsewhere? I would think this could be very harmful. But I'm known for my wet-blanketness..

 

[JimB]

The thing about gold dust is, while it has been allegedly witnessed by some, has never been proven. A vial of purported gold flakes can fall miraculously from the ceiling during a service or can be purchased at Walmart. Who knows for sure? But if it is from God, it should be gold, right? Not some sort of golden colored confetti. I mean, gold is mentioned over 400 times in the Bible, so it must be a favorite metal of God’s. So, take the gold dust in the vial to a chemist and have it analyzed. If it’s real gold it was probably God. If it’s department store glitter, probably not. Glitter would hardly rate as “signs and wonders”.

IMO.

~Jim

 

[probinson]

If they are "in the flesh" that means they are just doing whatever all on their own, correct? I would think the harm would be in the falseness of it. Aren't they claiming to have something they don't? Or they really believe they have something from God, but failed to realize the source of their gift is from elsewhere? I would think this could be very harmful. But I'm known for my wet-blanketness..

Most people just get caught up in their emotions and try to conjure something up because they're excited about what God is doing. They don't have any evil intent, and God knows their heart. It's like when you're at a football game and your team scores and everyone else stands up and is yelling, and people who could really care less about the game even start yelling just because everyone else is.

Is this harmful? I don't think it is. We've never had anyone in our church harmed from one of their "fleshly" manifestations. There have been times when someone has gotten out of control, and then the pastor will deal with it, in private, behind closed doors, so as not to embarass the person. But if we're always telling people, that wasn't from God, you didn't hear that from God, etc. they will lose their confidence in their ability to hear from God. The Holy Spirit is the one that leads us into the truth anyway, not us. So who are we to say to someone that they're in the "flesh" anyway? Only God knows the heart.

 

[FireOfGod]

The thing about gold dust is, while it has been allegedly witnessed by some, has never been proven. A vial of purported gold flakes can fall miraculously from the ceiling during a service or can be purchased at Walmart. Who knows for sure? But if it is from God, it should be gold, right? Not some sort of golden colored confetti. I mean, gold is mentioned over 400 times in the Bible, so it must be a favorite metal of God’s. So, take the gold dust in the vial to a chemist and have it analyzed. If it’s real gold it was probably God. If it’s department store glitter, probably not. Glitter would hardly rate as “signs and wonders”.

IMO.

~Jim

If that was directed at what I said...

I wasn't stating that if it was glitter that it wouldn't be from God. I just stated that people got curious and wondered because this was gold, it looked gold. So they got it tested to see if it was, or wasn't.

 

[JimB]

If that was directed at what I said...

I wasn't stating that if it was glitter that it wouldn't be from God. I just stated that people got curious and wondered because this was gold, it looked gold. So they got it tested to see if it was, or wasn't.

No, it was not directed at anyone. I read the term “gold dust” in one of the earlier posts and it inspired my general observations on the subject.

~Jim

 

[PlumTea]

Is this harmful? I don't think it is. We've never had anyone in our church harmed from one of their "fleshly" manifestations. There have been times when someone has gotten out of control, and then the pastor will deal with it, in private, behind closed doors, so as not to embarass the person. But if we're always telling people, that wasn't from God, you didn't hear that from God, etc. they will lose their confidence in their ability to hear from God. The Holy Spirit is the one that leads us into the truth anyway, not us. So who are we to say to someone that they're in the "flesh" anyway? Only God knows the heart.

It might not be good to tell people that they're 'in the flesh', but it could be harmful to them if they don't understand whats happening. Bad things often happen when people make assumptions.

 

[JimB]

IMO, those who chase after manifestations or spend too much time dwelling on them are those who walk by sight and not by faith instead of the other way around. How is it different from those who followed Jesus only to see him perform miracles or heal the sick? Jesus rebuked them when he said, “Unless you people see signs and wonders [insert “manifestations” here], you will not believe” (John 4.48). A “manifestation” is, after all, according to the dictionary, is “the materialized form of the invisible or a spirit.”

Jesus said, “Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” (John 20.29)

~Jim

 

[FireOfGod]

No, it was not directed at anyone. I read the term “gold dust” in one of the earlier posts and it inspired my general observations on the subject.

~Jim

K... Just checking.

 

[riverpastor]

Jim M,

No gold dust in your church yet???

I must not be praying "hard" enough!!!

 

[GodismyRefuge]

I don't know where the "glory dust" comes from, but it's God. Someone I know had so much of it one time, they put it in a bag and took it to a lab to be examined. They found out that it is real 100% gold.

 

[Jimmy West]

I’ve wept (many times), groaned, felt goose bumps, etc. I agree that when the Lord deals directly with you your whole being reacts. But then there’s the always ubiquitous spiritual exhibitionists who go from revival to revival just to “manifest” in order to get attention. I can introduce you to a couple of them tonight. One lives right around the corner.

~Jim

How do you know that they manifest just to get attention? Some people just love to go to revivals. I think you have unjustly judged them.

 

[Lpe04]

I think their is no problem with manifestations and they can be a good thing, but they should be done in order. I don't think that people should necessarily be seeking a manifestation, but rather should be seeking Truth and a closer relationship with our Father and our Lord and Saviour. Then let these manifestations follow naturally as God wills them to happen, and not us. I guess it can seem that people will seek more after the manifestations and feelings rather than the personal relationship with our Lord Almighty.

Sometimes these Holy Ghost parties can get very out of order from what I have heard. This was the problem the Corinthian Church was having that Paul wrote them on. Paul exorted them not to do things out of order but rather that everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way (1 Corinthians 14:40).

God Bless

 

[probinson]

It might not be good to tell people that they're 'in the flesh', but it could be harmful to them if they don't understand whats happening. Bad things often happen when people make assumptions.

I agree that bad things happen when people make assumptions and if they don't understand what's happening, but I don't believe it's right for us to tell them that they're not hearing from God or they're acting in the flesh. To do so presumes that we know exactly how God wanted to move in that person. I have no idea what God wants to do with someone else. I only know what God wants to do with me. I say we leave it up to the Holy Spirit to lead people to the truth. (John 16:13)

 

[JimB]

Jim M,

No gold dust in your church yet???

I must not be praying "hard" enough!!!

I know. But if it proves to be real gold I will be praying. It would be an excellent fundraiser ... and an answer to prayer.

~Jim

 

[JimB]

How do you know that they manifest just to get attention? Some people just love to go to revivals. I think you have unjustly judged them.

Not all of them are exhibitionists. That’s a generalization I hope I did not make. But ‘manifestations’ are exhibitionist and the problem with promoting them is that it attracts exhibitionists like honey attracts flies.

One of my concerns is the spiritual superiority “manifesters” sometimes adopt because they “manifest” and you don’t. They often accuse you of “quenching the Spirit” because you do not manifest (I know, I have been the victim of such accusations – as a rule, I rarely “manifest” except the weeping part). The truth is, those who habitually (and, especially, fleshily) “manifest” are the ones who quench the Spirit, drive off seekers, intimidate the more inhibited, and generally cause confusion. Anyhow, this is what my experience has shown me.

Years ago I pastored a rural Pentecostal (AG) church. One of our ladies, a precious, shy woman, was in the habit of spotting visitors and going into a trance-like state, begin speaking loudly in tongues, and float (for lack of a better word) over to the visitors, lay hands on them, speak in tongues and float back to her seat. Visitors never returned and more than one bolted for the door at their earliest convenience.

I asked a leader in the church what I should do. He said, “Well, if its God you better leave it alone.” But what if its not, I asked (I knew it wasn’t, but asked anyhow)? He just shrugged and said, “Well, if you do make her stop doing it it will create a mess you might not like cleaning up.”

Well, I finally went to the lady and asked her why she did that. She said because of her shyness that she was not a bold witness but she had a deep burden for the lost and that was her way of “witnessing”. I said that there has to be a better way and suggested she find it. She was crushed and I was accused by her circle of friends of “quenching the Spirit”. It did create a problem for me for a while. But the number of visitors and even conversions increased in the months that followed because she stopped.

So, what would you have done?

\o/