Holy Father is a Name for God The Father John 17:11 Not The Pope, Blasphemy Definition

[Valletta]

The Bible is not “the book of the Catholic Church.” The Old Testament was complete centuries before Jesus, and Jesus Himself referred to "the law, the prophets, and the psalms" (Luke 24:44) as Scripture, long before any Catholic church existed.

Romans 3:2 — “unto them were committed the oracles of God.” (speaking of the Jews, not the Catholics!)

The early Christians already had authoritative Scripture in the Old Testament, and Paul's epistles were being circulated as Scripture in the first century (see 2 Peter 3:15–16).

The Bible is above the Church, not the other way around

The Catholic Church didn’t “create” the canon, it merely recognized it (and even got it wrong)
the Catholic canon includes the Apocrypha, which Jesus and the apostles never quoted. The true Christian canon was already functioning in practice. 2 Timothy 3:15-17 — “...from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures…” — long before any “Catholic Church canonized” anything.
God's Word was already in use among believers the church didn't give us the Bible; God did.

“No phrase bans phrases not in the Bible” that's a strawman
When Bible believers say, “Don’t use unbiblical phrases,” they don’t mean every phrase must appear verbatim in the Bible, they mean the concepts must be biblical.

For example:

• “Trinity” is not in the Bible, but the concept clearly is (1 John 5:7).
• But if someone says “baptismal regeneration,” that contradicts the Bible so it’s rejected.

So it’s not about whether a word is used it’s about whether the doctrine behind the phrase lines up with Scripture.

The Catholic Church contradicts Scripture
If the Catholic Church created the Bible, why does it teach doctrines contrary to the Bible?

Examples:

• Praying to Mary – not in the Bible.
• Calling priests “Father” – forbidden (Matthew 23:9).
• Purgatory – not taught in Scripture.
• Salvation by works/sacraments – contradicts Romans 4:5, Ephesians 2:8–9.

How can a church that contradicts the Bible claim to have given it?

The Word of God judges the church, not the church judging the Word of God.

• Isaiah 8:20 — “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”
• Mark 7:13 — “Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition.”

The Catholic Church exalts tradition over Scripture, that's why it’s not the authority.

I just gave the example of Paul and Abraham being called "father" in the Bible, yet you incorrectly claim it is "forbidden." As I also pointed out, Jews differed as to which books were Holy Scripture. The Catholic Church chose the 73 books of the Bible in a process that spanned centuries. During reformation times, over a thousand years later, Luther was able to get some but not all of the books he wanted dropped from the Protestant Bible. Revelation was one book he was unsuccessful with, Revelation speaks of the prayers of the saints. Your claim that "The Catholic Church exalts tradition over Scripture" is absolutely false, it is a fabrication, the Catechism of the Catholic Church is available to all online to learn the truth:

II. THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TRADITION AND SACRED SCRIPTURE

One common source. . .

80 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal." 40 Each of them makes present and fruitful in the Church the mystery of Christ, who promised to remain with his own "always, to the close of the age". 41
. . . two distinct modes of transmission

81 "Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit." 42

"And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching." 43

82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honoured with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence." 44

Apostolic Tradition and ecclesial traditions

83 The Tradition here in question comes from the apostles and hands on what they received from Jesus' teaching and example and what they learned from the Holy Spirit. The first generation of Christians did not yet have a written New Testament, and the New Testament itself demonstrates the process of living Tradition. . .

Catechism of the Catholic Church

“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”​

― Fulton J. Sheen

 

[Gregory Thompson]

 

[d taylor]

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To me a pope is just another political figure, who i would no more go to for Biblical instruction. Than i would go to donald trump, governor so and so, or any other political person.

 

[Valletta]

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To me a pope is just another political figure, who i would no more go to for Biblical instruction. Than i would go to donald trump, governor so and so, or any other political person.

As former bishops you will find the recent popes to all have had excellent Biblical knowledge, certainly they have promoted the Bible as you can see of Pope Francis: ​

Pope asks Bible scholars to highlight Jesus' care for those who suffer

In the Bible, Jesus never explains suffering, but he reaches out to those who are hurting, heals them and ultimately, on the cross, shares and redeems the suffering of all humanity, Pope Francis said.

www.ncronline.org

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Pope Benedict was a true Biblical scholar, the following (from before he was pope) shows his approach to Biblical study:

Biblical Interpretation in Crisis - First Things

In Wladimir Solowjew’s History of the Antichrist, the eschatological enemy of the Redeemer recommended himself to believers, among other things, by the fact that he had earned his doctorate...

firstthings.com

 

[JulieB67]

It's the obvious worship by some of such figures like the Pope that gets me. And yes, calling him "Holy" Father can include that. Our true Father is no respecter of persons. And we should be following that example. It's as if they believe he has the only direct link to our Father and that is just not true. Anyone can go "boldy" to the throne in Christ's name. No other Christian has any other sway over another Christian who "walks in the light and does the will of God. It's good to have elders and teachers in the church but this goes way beyond that. True Christianity should be about teaching and spreading the Word so all can have that truth and be guided by it- not pleasing the world.

And when I see all the comments of "I hope the new Pope is this or that on certain issues says to me that it's more about politics and not the Word of God. It should always be our Father's will, not our own and certainly not the Pope's will over our Father's.
And some hope he's right in the middle on certain issues. And we know Christ's thoughts on those who are lukewarm. Again, it should always be our Father's will over our own.
And from what I've seen in the past it is much a case at times of trying to appease certain masses/groups than the will of God. "By their fruits we will know them."

So I continue to watch....

 

[Valletta]

It's the obvious worship by some of such figures like the Pope that gets me. And yes, calling him "Holy" Father can include that. Our true Father is no respecter of persons. And we should be following that example. It's as if they believe he has the only direct link to our Father and that is just not true. Anyone can go "boldy" to the throne in Christ's name. No other Christian has any other sway over another Christian who "walks in the light and does the will of God. It's good to have elders and teachers in the church but this goes way beyond that. True Christianity should be about teaching and spreading the Word so all can have that truth and be guided by it- not pleasing the world.

And when I see all the comments of "I hope the new Pope is this or that on certain issues says to me that it's more about politics and not the Word of God. It should always be our Father's will, not our own and certainly not the Pope's will over our Father's.
And some hope he's right in the middle on certain issues. And we know Christ's thoughts on those who are lukewarm. Again, it should always be our Father's will over our own.
And from what I've seen in the past it is much a case at times of trying to appease certain masses/groups than the will of God. "By their fruits we will know them."

So I continue to watch....

The pope is a servant of the people, he is a sinner and don't worship him. No one thinks the pope is "the only direct link to our Father," why would you say such a thing? Why question God appointing a shepherd for his Church on earth? Realize God's ways are far above our ways.

 

[d taylor]

As former bishops you will find the recent popes to all have had excellent Biblical knowledge, certainly they have promoted the Bible as you can see of Pope Francis: ​

Pope asks Bible scholars to highlight Jesus' care for those who suffer

In the Bible, Jesus never explains suffering, but he reaches out to those who are hurting, heals them and ultimately, on the cross, shares and redeems the suffering of all humanity, Pope Francis said.

www.ncronline.org

​

Pope Benedict was a true Biblical scholar, the following (from before he was pope) shows his approach to Biblical study:

Biblical Interpretation in Crisis - First Things

In Wladimir Solowjew’s History of the Antichrist, the eschatological enemy of the Redeemer recommended himself to believers, among other things, by the fact that he had earned his doctorate...

firstthings.com

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They let tradition affect their view and that inhibits solid Biblical instruction. So actually you will not here something that has not been said 100's years ago and they revolve around political thoughts. In other words they are not going to buck the system.

Beware of Tradition – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[Valletta]

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They let tradition affect their view and that inhibits solid Biblical instruction. So actually you will not here something that has not been said 100's years ago and they revolve around political thoughts. In other words they are not going to buck the system.

Beware of Tradition – Grace Evangelical Society

Sacred Tradition, the Word of God passed down from Jesus through the Apostles, was responsible for the selection of the books of the Bible. Realize that Christians followed Sacred Tradition before one word of the New Testament was written. So no we are not going to abandoned those teachings of Jesus. The Gospels were quickly accepted as books to be read at mass, but there were differences from area to area and so the Church set out to choose the books of the Bible. Once the canon was officially adopted in the late 300s there was no movement by Christians to cede all authority over to the Bible. The books of the Bible are liturgical books, God-breathed liturgical books and a wonderful addition to the faith.

 

[timothyu]

Why question God appointing a shepherd for his Church on earth? Realize God's ways are far above our ways.

Which is why i asked why don't they still cast lots as in Jesus' day. Seems more likely that God's will would influence the outcome than human politics.

 

[Valletta]

Which is why i asked why don't they still cast lots as in Jesus' day. Seems more likely that God's will would influence the outcome than human politics.

Catholics around the world were praying, at my parish people were praying through the night. Names of individual cardinals to pray for were handed out at mass.

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there among them.” RSVCE

 

[timothyu]

at my parish people were praying through the night. Names of individual cardinals to pray for were handed out at mass.

Not the same. God's Will is free of human will.

 

[d taylor]

Sacred Tradition, the Word of God passed down from Jesus through the Apostles, was responsible for the selection of the books of the Bible. Realize that Christians followed Sacred Tradition before one word of the New Testament was written. So no we are not going to abandoned those teachings of Jesus. The Gospels were quickly accepted as books to be read at mass, but there were differences from area to area and so the Church set out to choose the books of the Bible. Once the canon was officially adopted in the late 300s there was no movement by Christians to cede all authority over to the Bible. The books of the Bible are liturgical books, God-breathed liturgical books and a wonderful addition to the faith.

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The revelation has been given, there is no new revelation. It is just learning and believing what The Bible states in proper context.

The Bible is the only way to know God and how to receive His free gift of Eternal Life. Tradition will only lead to false ways, as man will always add their own beliefs into tradition and its view.

 

[Valletta]

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The Bible is the only way to know God and how to receive His free gift of Eternal Life. Tradition will only lead to false ways, as man will always add their own beliefs into tradition and its view.

No, that is hardly the only way, prayer is critical, establish a prayer life with God.

 

[d taylor]

No, that is hardly the only way, prayer is critical, establish a prayer life with God.

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You would not even know what prayer is unless The Bible, which has taught people about prayer and how to pray.

 

[timothyu]

Prayer is effective when it is for the benefit of all, following His second commandment. It does not take sides. The ideal short prayer other than the Lord's Prayer is "Thy will be done". The Lord's Prayer condensed.

 

[Valletta]

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You would not even know what prayer is unless The Bible, which has taught people about prayer and how to pray.

False. As I said, the Catholic Church was in existence before one word of the New Testament was written. Catholics, before and after that time, gathered for the breaking of the bread, the mass, which is itself a prayer. Jesus Himself, in the Holy Eucharist, His Body and HIS true Blood, is our "New Covenant" or "New Testament." For the unity of the Church it was decided to choose what books could be used for readings at mass, and as I said this prayerful process spanned centuries. In fact, as the books were being chosen those books thus began to be referred to as "books of the New Testament."

 

[Cockcrow]

The pope is a servant of the people, he is a sinner and don't worship him. No one thinks the pope is "the only direct link to our Father," why would you say such a thing? Why question God appointing a shepherd for his Church on earth? Realize God's ways are far above our ways.

don't worship him? He doesn't exactly rebuke when people kiss his hand and kneel before him, bow down to him. and the Catholic Church teaches that the pope is Christ on Earth Vicar of Christ, or he's the new Peter via Apostolic succession. and he is supposed to be infallible as well. so you saying he's a sinner don't worship him, tell that to the hundreds of millions of Catholics who look to him as their spiritual Father.

And even the millions of catholics that reject him or his teachings like Francis, when push comes to shove they will stand with the pope any way at the end of the day, thats who their allegiance is to.

 

[d taylor]

False. As I said, the Catholic Church was in existence before one word of the New Testament was written. Catholics, before and after that time, gathered for the breaking of the bread, the mass, which is itself a prayer. Jesus Himself, in the Holy Eucharist, His Body and HIS true Blood, is our "New Covenant" or "New Testament." For the unity of the Church it was decided to choose what books could be used for readings at mass, and as I said this prayerful process spanned centuries. In fact, as the books were being chosen those books thus began to be referred to as "books of the New Testament."

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This attitude is why the catholic church is exaggerating its role in Biblical development. Prayer did not began with the catholic church, prayer was part of The Tanakh and Old Testament times.

Was it the Catholic Church that produced the New Testament canon?

 

[d taylor]

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Ok i have said all i am going to say about this topic, catholics are going to believe what they believe.

 

[Valletta]

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This attitude is why the catholic church is full of it. Prayer did not began with the catholic church, prayer was part of The Tanakh and Old Testament times.

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Please no slurs.